Temple of VTEC: '03 Accord Sedan Testing [
#1
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
Temple of VTEC: '03 Accord Sedan Testing [
Temple of VTEC is doing a week long series on the impressions of the accord '03 sedan. I'll update this thread.
DAY 1
Dyno Day
MPEG Video of Dyno
DAY 1
As regular readers of the TOV probably know, the arrival of the '03 Accord was preceded by a good bit of hype, and more than a little controversy. The hype can be attributed to all the promises surrounding the "most radical Accord ever". With the 7th generation Accord, Honda prefaced its debut with promises of aggressive styling, more power, better efficiency, and sportier handling. The controversy began brewing when spy photos started appearing on the internet, quite possibly peaking when we posted some of our own exclusive spy shots back in June. To say the photos were met with mixed reactions would be an understatement.
Fast forward six months (yeah, it took us that long), to today, when Honda delivered an early Christmas gift to the TOV in the form of a shiny new Graphite Pearl 2003 Accord EX V6 Sedan. Prior to today, I've had two brief opportunities to drive the new Accord (both cars were also EX V6 models), and my initial impressions were quite favorable. Since this morning, I've driven the car quite a bit, over many different types of road. So far, I'm holding the line on my earliest impression - the new Accord really is a solid car.
My favorite aspect of the car so far has to be the drivetrain. The newly reworked 3.0 is silky smooth, the transmission shifts with fluidity and logic, and the gear ratios seem to be perfectly spaced to best take advantage of the J30s power curve (which is a thing of beauty). This car really moves - my gut feel is that it might even be quicker than my 2002 TL Type S. It might not quite match up with the TL-S right off the line, but once rolling this car gathers speed like nobody's business, and it does so with impeccable manners. Especially appreciated is the roll-on acceleration, from virtually any speed. Where the TL-S is saddled with ridiculously tall gearing in the upper 3 gears, the Accord delights with its seemingly effortless ability to slingshot you past slower moving traffic. It does so with such limited drama that if you're not minding the speedometer you will find yourself traveling at least 10-15mph faster than you would otherwise guess.
The new Accord also impresses with its refinement. Road noise is kept to a minimum, and everything operates with a level of fluidity that I've not experienced in past Hondas or even Acuras. Ride quality is superb, without too much of a sacrifice in the way of handling. In fact, I was rather impressed by how athletic the car felt on the 2-lane twisties I traversed today. I'm not going to tell you that this car a 4-door S2000, but I still had quite a bit of fun with it today.
Fast forward six months (yeah, it took us that long), to today, when Honda delivered an early Christmas gift to the TOV in the form of a shiny new Graphite Pearl 2003 Accord EX V6 Sedan. Prior to today, I've had two brief opportunities to drive the new Accord (both cars were also EX V6 models), and my initial impressions were quite favorable. Since this morning, I've driven the car quite a bit, over many different types of road. So far, I'm holding the line on my earliest impression - the new Accord really is a solid car.
My favorite aspect of the car so far has to be the drivetrain. The newly reworked 3.0 is silky smooth, the transmission shifts with fluidity and logic, and the gear ratios seem to be perfectly spaced to best take advantage of the J30s power curve (which is a thing of beauty). This car really moves - my gut feel is that it might even be quicker than my 2002 TL Type S. It might not quite match up with the TL-S right off the line, but once rolling this car gathers speed like nobody's business, and it does so with impeccable manners. Especially appreciated is the roll-on acceleration, from virtually any speed. Where the TL-S is saddled with ridiculously tall gearing in the upper 3 gears, the Accord delights with its seemingly effortless ability to slingshot you past slower moving traffic. It does so with such limited drama that if you're not minding the speedometer you will find yourself traveling at least 10-15mph faster than you would otherwise guess.
The new Accord also impresses with its refinement. Road noise is kept to a minimum, and everything operates with a level of fluidity that I've not experienced in past Hondas or even Acuras. Ride quality is superb, without too much of a sacrifice in the way of handling. In fact, I was rather impressed by how athletic the car felt on the 2-lane twisties I traversed today. I'm not going to tell you that this car a 4-door S2000, but I still had quite a bit of fun with it today.
MPEG Video of Dyno
I was halfway to Dynolab, Inc. in Marietta, GA, when it hit me: of the many times I've dyno tested a car, I've never dyno tested one with an automatic transmission. With some of the manumatic cars, it's no big deal, select 3rd or 4th in manual mode, and proceed as normal. With a normal automatic, how can you get a solid pull through the rpms without the tranny deciding to kick down? Well as it turns out, you really can't. That means you're somewhat limited in showing the actual torque curve of a given motor. In this case, the best we could do was to run through the gears until we reached about 55 mph in 3rd gear, and then ramp up the throttle until we cleared the "kickdown zone" which seemed to be right around 60mph.
As you can see from the plots, Honda may truly be sandbagging on the output numbers of this new J30. At nearly 196whp, this car puts down as much or more than a TL/CL Type S motor (typically 190-200whp). And this motor is still relatively green, only showing 1120 miles on the odometer at the time of yesterday's dyno runs. With a few more miles on the odometer, you might see these motors clearing 200whp. The good news is that I peeked under the car yesterday (photos to come) and much like its Acura cousins, it appears that it also has room for improvement in the exhaust department. The factory manifold makes the same 180 degree turn just ahead of the merge, and aft of that, the piping is quite thin. So there may be perhaps an additional 10 or more whp to be found with exhaust mods, and then perhaps more with an intake. I should note that I filled up the tank with premium fuel about 20 miles prior to the dyno test. I don't know what it was running in the prior tank, as it was delivered to me "FULL".
We made several passes, and interestingly the power notched up incrementally after each of 3 runs. By the 4th run, we saw 195.9hp, and on the 5th run, it again rang up exactly 195.9hp, and virtually identical torque readings. If you look at the plot, you can see a sudden notch down in power, just past 6800 rpms. On the earlier runs, we saw similar notches, but sometimes at lower rpms. My best guess is that the ECU was pulling a bit of timing either due to mild detonation, or perhaps simply due to a bit of heat soak. Notice how flat the torque curve is - it hovers just above 170 lb-ft from 4000rpms and just begins to slowly taper past 5200 rpms. I have a feeling it would be around 170lb-ft well ahead of 4000 rpms, but we just couldn't get full throttle in 3rd gear without a kickdown below that point. There are just no holes in the torque curve, and you can feel it on the street.
I did not have our normal video gear with me for the test, but I used my digital still camera's movie mode (which apart from the audio quality, is actually not bad for shooting video) to create this MPEG clip. A slightly smaller file is available in Real G2 format Here
I would like to take a moment to thank DynoLab Inc. for the use of their dyno facilities for this test. I highly recommend their services to anybody in the Southeast, and especially the Atlanta area. Conveniently located just a few miles off I-75 in Marietta, GA, their facilities are top notch, and their in-ground Dynojet 248 makes it much easier to strap the car down than the above-ground types. You can set up an appointment by calling 678-560-0692.
As you can see from the plots, Honda may truly be sandbagging on the output numbers of this new J30. At nearly 196whp, this car puts down as much or more than a TL/CL Type S motor (typically 190-200whp). And this motor is still relatively green, only showing 1120 miles on the odometer at the time of yesterday's dyno runs. With a few more miles on the odometer, you might see these motors clearing 200whp. The good news is that I peeked under the car yesterday (photos to come) and much like its Acura cousins, it appears that it also has room for improvement in the exhaust department. The factory manifold makes the same 180 degree turn just ahead of the merge, and aft of that, the piping is quite thin. So there may be perhaps an additional 10 or more whp to be found with exhaust mods, and then perhaps more with an intake. I should note that I filled up the tank with premium fuel about 20 miles prior to the dyno test. I don't know what it was running in the prior tank, as it was delivered to me "FULL".
We made several passes, and interestingly the power notched up incrementally after each of 3 runs. By the 4th run, we saw 195.9hp, and on the 5th run, it again rang up exactly 195.9hp, and virtually identical torque readings. If you look at the plot, you can see a sudden notch down in power, just past 6800 rpms. On the earlier runs, we saw similar notches, but sometimes at lower rpms. My best guess is that the ECU was pulling a bit of timing either due to mild detonation, or perhaps simply due to a bit of heat soak. Notice how flat the torque curve is - it hovers just above 170 lb-ft from 4000rpms and just begins to slowly taper past 5200 rpms. I have a feeling it would be around 170lb-ft well ahead of 4000 rpms, but we just couldn't get full throttle in 3rd gear without a kickdown below that point. There are just no holes in the torque curve, and you can feel it on the street.
I did not have our normal video gear with me for the test, but I used my digital still camera's movie mode (which apart from the audio quality, is actually not bad for shooting video) to create this MPEG clip. A slightly smaller file is available in Real G2 format Here
I would like to take a moment to thank DynoLab Inc. for the use of their dyno facilities for this test. I highly recommend their services to anybody in the Southeast, and especially the Atlanta area. Conveniently located just a few miles off I-75 in Marietta, GA, their facilities are top notch, and their in-ground Dynojet 248 makes it much easier to strap the car down than the above-ground types. You can set up an appointment by calling 678-560-0692.
#4
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (5)
Originally posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Why in the hell would Honda put better gearing in the new Accord than they do in the CL-S or TL-S??? The Accord is suppose the family car not the CL-S or TL-S.
Why in the hell would Honda put better gearing in the new Accord than they do in the CL-S or TL-S??? The Accord is suppose the family car not the CL-S or TL-S.
CL-S = introduced in 2000 as a 2001
TL-S = introduced in 2001 as a 2002
Plus... the CL and TL are based on the 6th gen Accord. This is what happens with progression. The next TL will be built off of this new Accord so it should have better gearing and performance then the Honda. I would assume the CL will as well.
Anyway.. nice write up. Sounds like a good car. I'm looking forward to the wife test driving the coupe next year
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#5
Originally posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Why in the hell would Honda put better gearing in the new Accord than they do in the CL-S or TL-S???
Why in the hell would Honda put better gearing in the new Accord than they do in the CL-S or TL-S???
#6
What, me drive fast?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: North Andover, MA
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hhmmm...I find it hard to believe that the accord os faster than the TL/CL Type S. I test drove the 2003 Accord V6 coupe and it was fun, but the CL-S seemed quicker...plus there is no sportshift in the Accord. What do the numbers say...0-100mph? Well, he did say "might even be quicker". Cars that you aren't used to often times seem faster than what you ARE used to.
Trending Topics
#10
6th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I definately do think they underated the egine and premium fuel is a factor (250/225) or something close to that. You also have to consider that an accord is at least 200 lbs. lighter than a cl/tl. The combination of power-to-weight ratio and better gearing could very well beat a cl-s/tl-s. Of course this is all speculation but the numbers are very impressive. As far as the price goes, someone said that a FULLY loaded accord is ALMOST as much as a cl/tl, well that says it all, most people don't fully load their cars and even if they did it is still less than a cl/tl.
You guys should be worried when the 6-speed coupe comes out (well at least people with autos should be worried) :P
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#11
Happy CL-S Pilot
Acura would be more worried about their CL sales... but the rumor is that only 1000 coupe would be made in Q1 03 after which I expect a new TL/CL ( around March 03)!!
#13
Drifting
Originally posted by bored&stroked
They can sell more cars that way. I would rather have a fast accord then a fast cl/tl-S. Most people cant afford the type S anyways, while they could afford the accord. And dont forget just about every modded import out there is either a civic, accord, integra, or eclipse. So they are going to want to up the appeal of their cash cow.
They can sell more cars that way. I would rather have a fast accord then a fast cl/tl-S. Most people cant afford the type S anyways, while they could afford the accord. And dont forget just about every modded import out there is either a civic, accord, integra, or eclipse. So they are going to want to up the appeal of their cash cow.
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#14
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
Acura would be more worried about their CL sales... but the rumor is that only 1000 coupe would be made in Q1 03 after which I expect a new TL/CL ( around March 03)!!
Acura would be more worried about their CL sales... but the rumor is that only 1000 coupe would be made in Q1 03 after which I expect a new TL/CL ( around March 03)!!
#16
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by torqueaholic
sorry for the mega bumpin'.... but thanks for posting the dyno in mpeg format, zapata!
sorry for the mega bumpin'.... but thanks for posting the dyno in mpeg format, zapata!
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
NP
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post