TEIN SS with EDFC (Electronic Damping Force Controller)
02-12-2003, 09:25 PM
#82
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by slyraskal
The thing is, i drive a hell of a lot. ANd if i go with the more progressive spring rate i have no worries about bottoming out (or at least not too worry as much) and on top of that it'll still ride just as smooth on the freeway like chikai said. except here in cali even our freeway's bite big time, there are potholes on the entrances and exit's, many many bumps scattered on many freeways because of overpasses, bridges and to top it off, they are always doing construction somewhere and they stick those stupid metal plates on the ground which at night as all of you know you can't see worth shit!
i'd rather go with a more responsive setup even if it is a firmer ride. having a sports car is all about a firm and responsive ride anyways.
The thing is, i drive a hell of a lot. ANd if i go with the more progressive spring rate i have no worries about bottoming out (or at least not too worry as much) and on top of that it'll still ride just as smooth on the freeway like chikai said. except here in cali even our freeway's bite big time, there are potholes on the entrances and exit's, many many bumps scattered on many freeways because of overpasses, bridges and to top it off, they are always doing construction somewhere and they stick those stupid metal plates on the ground which at night as all of you know you can't see worth shit!
i'd rather go with a more responsive setup even if it is a firmer ride. having a sports car is all about a firm and responsive ride anyways.
1. I called them AGAIN, and they said that the springs are not progressive. They make different springs with different spring rates, but they are not progressive (I don't know if they consider a slight change in the end winds sufficient to call the springs "mildly progressive" -- that is a stretch.).
2. You mentioned the lack of a future CL kit. That doesn't preclude that ability to cobble up the pieces necessary to allow the EDFC to work when they get around to getting the steppers to fit (as required by the EDFC setup). (Summer time frame???)
3. The re-valving has more to do than just adjusting for beefier springs (higher/lower spring rate). There is the ability, or so they claim, of changing the rebound compression characteristics up to a point. This is different then just changing the setting via the shock adjustments. Different profiles can be dialed in that effect ride quality and other unique issues. Other models of shocks have extensive sets of valves and orifices that allow for wide variation in compression and rebound curves. A good book on shock/damper design can be had via SAE book or Amazon.
02-13-2003, 04:56 AM
#83
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Originally posted by EricL
1. I called them AGAIN, and they said that the springs are not progressive. They make different springs with different spring rates, but they are not progressive (I don't know if they consider a slight change in the end winds sufficient to call the springs "mildly progressive" -- that is a stretch.).
2. You mentioned the lack of a future CL kit. That doesn't preclude that ability to cobble up the pieces necessary to allow the EDFC to work when they get around to getting the steppers to fit (as required by the EDFC setup). (Summer time frame???)
3. The re-valving has more to do than just adjusting for beefier springs (higher/lower spring rate). There is the ability, or so they claim, of changing the rebound compression characteristics up to a point. This is different then just changing the setting via the shock adjustments. Different profiles can be dialed in that effect ride quality and other unique issues. Other models of shocks have extensive sets of valves and orifices that allow for wide variation in compression and rebound curves. A good book on shock/damper design can be had via SAE book or Amazon.
1. I called them AGAIN, and they said that the springs are not progressive. They make different springs with different spring rates, but they are not progressive (I don't know if they consider a slight change in the end winds sufficient to call the springs "mildly progressive" -- that is a stretch.).
2. You mentioned the lack of a future CL kit. That doesn't preclude that ability to cobble up the pieces necessary to allow the EDFC to work when they get around to getting the steppers to fit (as required by the EDFC setup). (Summer time frame???)
3. The re-valving has more to do than just adjusting for beefier springs (higher/lower spring rate). There is the ability, or so they claim, of changing the rebound compression characteristics up to a point. This is different then just changing the setting via the shock adjustments. Different profiles can be dialed in that effect ride quality and other unique issues. Other models of shocks have extensive sets of valves and orifices that allow for wide variation in compression and rebound curves. A good book on shock/damper design can be had via SAE book or Amazon.
i did want to get the EDFC at a later date when they complete the pillar mount.
But after someone mentioned the Zeal's earlier in this thread, i've been looking at those a little bit doing some research.
02-13-2003, 05:12 AM
#84
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by slyraskal
what i meant by a CL kit, is one that is specifically designed only for the CL, and isn't a cross platform kit, currently the standard kit they offer is for the accord v6 but it fits our car cuz of the chassies setup, but there is the weight difference which we have to account for, hence the upgraded springs which i mentioned.
i did want to get the EDFC at a later date when they complete the pillar mount.
But after someone mentioned the Zeal's earlier in this thread, i've been looking at those a little bit doing some research.
what i meant by a CL kit, is one that is specifically designed only for the CL, and isn't a cross platform kit, currently the standard kit they offer is for the accord v6 but it fits our car cuz of the chassies setup, but there is the weight difference which we have to account for, hence the upgraded springs which i mentioned.
i did want to get the EDFC at a later date when they complete the pillar mount.
But after someone mentioned the Zeal's earlier in this thread, i've been looking at those a little bit doing some research.
I pressed Tein pretty hard on the progressive springs, and that seems to be a dead end without some serious $$$ or change of policy.
I don't think they would penalize you badly for swapping out for a slightly higher rate spring. You don't want to got too far up in spring rate – unless you plan on doing some radical lowering with autox and track in mind; the higher spring rate would call for higher damping, and even the “soft” setting would need to be high to keep the car from becoming underdamped (AKA bouncy).
I forgot the next size up spring made for the current setup (the next higher spring rate), but they said they didn't need to adjust or change the valving. I was just curious about the valving to tailor the shocks as a sort of experiment. IMO, the slightly higher spring rate with the upcoming EDFC could be very nice...
02-13-2003, 12:12 PM
#85
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i found out that the Zeal function b6 kit has the following spring rates:
Function-B6 [Street Rate: 12kg/mm & 8 kg/mm]
And i believe the TEIN has 7kg/mm & 4 kg/mm]
quite a big difference.
and the Zeal's have the ability to add bumpstops, they come standard with boots to protect the shock from dust and particles that may get kicked up by the wheel (which the TEIN's don't) and the Zeal's come with an upper mount that allows for camber adjustment!
there is a very big difference in the number of level's of dampening that are allowed between the kits. 16 for the TEIN, and only 6 for the Zeal, but one thing to note, on the TEIN, how many of us are really going to feel the difference between a setting of 13 or 14? I've never had adjustable shocks so i know for starter's i'll never notice it. If you are taking it to the track, every little bit counts, but for the street, you're probably going to keep it at one setting that you like the most.
Function-B6 [Street Rate: 12kg/mm & 8 kg/mm]
And i believe the TEIN has 7kg/mm & 4 kg/mm]
quite a big difference.
and the Zeal's have the ability to add bumpstops, they come standard with boots to protect the shock from dust and particles that may get kicked up by the wheel (which the TEIN's don't) and the Zeal's come with an upper mount that allows for camber adjustment!
there is a very big difference in the number of level's of dampening that are allowed between the kits. 16 for the TEIN, and only 6 for the Zeal, but one thing to note, on the TEIN, how many of us are really going to feel the difference between a setting of 13 or 14? I've never had adjustable shocks so i know for starter's i'll never notice it. If you are taking it to the track, every little bit counts, but for the street, you're probably going to keep it at one setting that you like the most.
02-13-2003, 12:22 PM
#86
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EricL,
Glad you brought this up. Everything i've read pretty much states that for street application go with a softer spring and more aggressive damper. Unfortunately, what I think many of us are attempting to do is come with a suspension setup which will be a one-size fits all and until Acura starts to offer and active suspension setup with are screwed. Going with any aftermarket setup will affect the ride. I know people say the ride is the same but it isn't.
So your recommendation would but to keep spring rate that comes with current teinSS?
Glad you brought this up. Everything i've read pretty much states that for street application go with a softer spring and more aggressive damper. Unfortunately, what I think many of us are attempting to do is come with a suspension setup which will be a one-size fits all and until Acura starts to offer and active suspension setup with are screwed. Going with any aftermarket setup will affect the ride. I know people say the ride is the same but it isn't.
So your recommendation would but to keep spring rate that comes with current teinSS?
Originally posted by EricL
I think most people will probably stick with the current spring rates and just skew the damping (as mentioned previously by others).
I pressed Tein pretty hard on the progressive springs, and that seems to be a dead end without some serious $$$ or change of policy.
I don't think they would penalize you badly for swapping out for a slightly higher rate spring. You don't want to got too far up in spring rate – unless you plan on doing some radical lowering with autox and track in mind; the higher spring rate would call for higher damping, and even the “soft” setting would need to be high to keep the car from becoming underdamped (AKA bouncy).
I forgot the next size up spring made for the current setup (the next higher spring rate), but they said they didn't need to adjust or change the valving. I was just curious about the valving to tailor the shocks as a sort of experiment. IMO, the slightly higher spring rate with the upcoming EDFC could be very nice...
I think most people will probably stick with the current spring rates and just skew the damping (as mentioned previously by others).
I pressed Tein pretty hard on the progressive springs, and that seems to be a dead end without some serious $$$ or change of policy.
I don't think they would penalize you badly for swapping out for a slightly higher rate spring. You don't want to got too far up in spring rate – unless you plan on doing some radical lowering with autox and track in mind; the higher spring rate would call for higher damping, and even the “soft” setting would need to be high to keep the car from becoming underdamped (AKA bouncy).
I forgot the next size up spring made for the current setup (the next higher spring rate), but they said they didn't need to adjust or change the valving. I was just curious about the valving to tailor the shocks as a sort of experiment. IMO, the slightly higher spring rate with the upcoming EDFC could be very nice...
02-13-2003, 01:16 PM
#87
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Originally posted by slyraskal
i found out that the Zeal function b6 kit has the following spring rates:
Function-B6 [Street Rate: 12kg/mm & 8 kg/mm]
And i believe the TEIN has 7kg/mm & 4 kg/mm]
quite a big difference.
i found out that the Zeal function b6 kit has the following spring rates:
Function-B6 [Street Rate: 12kg/mm & 8 kg/mm]
And i believe the TEIN has 7kg/mm & 4 kg/mm]
quite a big difference.
02-13-2003, 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Rod
So for those that know a bit more about the Zeals, how stiff is the ride? I remember people complaining about the Nex kit being too harsh. Looks like Zeal may be the way to go, even without the EDFC. Any reports of bottoming out with the Zeals because I haven't heard any, but not many people have opted for these coilovers.
So for those that know a bit more about the Zeals, how stiff is the ride? I remember people complaining about the Nex kit being too harsh. Looks like Zeal may be the way to go, even without the EDFC. Any reports of bottoming out with the Zeals because I haven't heard any, but not many people have opted for these coilovers.
both of them responded that they love the Zeal kit and that it performs great. Neither said they bottomed out. And astroboy took it further and said it handles better than his porsche.
02-13-2003, 01:29 PM
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At first the Zeals felt like a god damn roller coaster, but I can say that once I had everything setup right, the Zeals ride damn near close to stock.
02-13-2003, 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Rod
Well what's the cheapest we can get the Zeals for? $1,200 is quite a bit of money to me.
Well what's the cheapest we can get the Zeals for? $1,200 is quite a bit of money to me.
Zeal B2s are 1200
Zeal B6s are 1900
02-13-2003, 01:34 PM
#92
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by Zapata
EricL,
Glad you brought this up. Everything i've read pretty much states that for street application go with a softer spring and more aggressive damper. Unfortunately, what I think many of us are attempting to do is come with a suspension setup which will be a one-size fits all and until Acura starts to offer and active suspension setup with are screwed. Going with any aftermarket setup will affect the ride. I know people say the ride is the same but it isn't.
So your recommendation would but to keep spring rate that comes with current teinSS?
EricL,
Glad you brought this up. Everything i've read pretty much states that for street application go with a softer spring and more aggressive damper. Unfortunately, what I think many of us are attempting to do is come with a suspension setup which will be a one-size fits all and until Acura starts to offer and active suspension setup with are screwed. Going with any aftermarket setup will affect the ride. I know people say the ride is the same but it isn't.
So your recommendation would but to keep spring rate that comes with current teinSS?
AS for the current spring rate on the Teins, I'm only restating that "most" people that have them "seem" to be happy with the stock spring rates. I, for one, might be tempted to try a higher spring rate (this presumes that I take the jump).
Depending on the desired ride height, sways, expectations and local road conditions, there can be a lot of variability on what's ok to one person and terrible to another.
As for the softer spring and bigger shock, if you have smooth roads, you can get away with that.
Unfortunately, the "messy part" comes when you find the setup hitting the bump stops on commonly used roads. I've done the "turn the damper up" experiment years ago and it was always so pleasant on some newly paved roads. I wasn't too happy on broken pavement.
What worked for me on a previous car:
Car was lowered about 1.5".
The shocks had more damping and the lowering springs had higher spring rates with a mildly progressive wind. The dampers had a better feel over small irregularities, so over most "small stuff", the car felt pretty close to "normal." (I don’t know exactly what it is with Bilsteins and the nice feel they gave me over the “small” stuff.)
So, both the damper and spring rate were higher for large excursions/movements. This did NOT imply that I could go faster over large speed bumps. It did keep the ride comfort close enough to stock – at least for me.
I think that one size of Tein will not fit all, and some might be better suited with a higher spring rate...
It could turn out that I could enjoy one setup, and you could get in the same setup in your area and tell me I'm nuts! (Restatement of the obvious)
I didn't get it right on the first try...
02-13-2003, 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by mantis23
you pay for what you get in suspension
Zeal B2s are 1200
Zeal B6s are 1900
you pay for what you get in suspension
Zeal B2s are 1200
Zeal B6s are 1900
02-13-2003, 02:27 PM
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nope, they sell dust boots to prolong the life of the shock by reducing the amount of dust/particles that go into the shaft.
http://www.endlessusa.com/estore/opt...art_num=ZS-003
the guy i spoke to said they come standard on the kit, but looking at your picture they aren't on there.
http://www.endlessusa.com/estore/opt...art_num=ZS-003
the guy i spoke to said they come standard on the kit, but looking at your picture they aren't on there.
02-13-2003, 02:27 PM
#96
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i think he means shock boots 
02-13-2003, 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by mattg
i think he means shock boots
i think he means shock boots
and i just got off the phone with the guy again, and he said they come standard on their kits and you shouldn't have to pay extra for them.
maybe they are on your kit, but i just can't tell by lookin at that picture.
02-13-2003, 02:40 PM
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Mantis,
Didn't you say that the B6 nearly made you bust your spleen or something?? The B2 is the street setup and the B6 is the full track setup right?
Also, the helper spring is nothing really. it is to help sit the spring better.
Didn't you say that the B6 nearly made you bust your spleen or something?? The B2 is the street setup and the B6 is the full track setup right?
Also, the helper spring is nothing really. it is to help sit the spring better.
02-13-2003, 03:26 PM
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I got a pretty good deal on a group buy on the ZEAL Kit, so be sure to check it out if any of you are interested.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=94464
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=94464
02-13-2003, 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by moomaster_99
Mantis,
Didn't you say that the B6 nearly made you bust your spleen or something?? The B2 is the street setup and the B6 is the full track setup right?
Also, the helper spring is nothing really. it is to help sit the spring better.
Mantis,
Didn't you say that the B6 nearly made you bust your spleen or something?? The B2 is the street setup and the B6 is the full track setup right?
Also, the helper spring is nothing really. it is to help sit the spring better.
But then he said he tuned it and got it perfect and now it rides like stock and handles very well.
02-14-2003, 08:46 AM
#103
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robb m.
robb m.
I have the Zeal Function B6 Coils and they are the best matched suspension that I have ever experienced...better than the H&R coils on my VW, better than my H&R and Bilstein suspension on my POrsche, and far better than either comptechs or H&Rs with the Koni Yellows.
The ride is firm yes, but come on, why upgrade your suspension if you're not changing it's characteristics?
my car is SO PLANTED to the road, at any speed, it's VERY confidence inspiring.
The difficulty in adjusting the rear dampers really doesn't matter...I just leave the rear set up one stiffer than the front, and things are great.
I would recommend this suspension over any other one on the market.
The ride is firm yes, but come on, why upgrade your suspension if you're not changing it's characteristics?
my car is SO PLANTED to the road, at any speed, it's VERY confidence inspiring.
The difficulty in adjusting the rear dampers really doesn't matter...I just leave the rear set up one stiffer than the front, and things are great.
I would recommend this suspension over any other one on the market.
02-14-2003, 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by 1gCL
Astro,
Did you also get the camber adjustable pillow mount? Is it necessary? How low is your drop?
Astro,
Did you also get the camber adjustable pillow mount? Is it necessary? How low is your drop?
From what i've heard myself, I don't think the camber adjustable pillow mount is necessary, since it does come as an optional piece.
But it does allow for fine tuning of the camber than conventional camber kits.
02-14-2003, 02:19 PM
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Astro & Mantis
What are your settings for your damper for the front and rear on the Zeal's? just wondering, i'm probably going to start with 3 all the way around and then tune it from there.
What are your settings for your damper for the front and rear on the Zeal's? just wondering, i'm probably going to start with 3 all the way around and then tune it from there.
02-14-2003, 04:19 PM
#107
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robb m.
robb m.
Originally posted by 1gCL
Astro,
Did you also get the camber adjustable pillow mount? Is it necessary? How low is your drop?
Astro,
Did you also get the camber adjustable pillow mount? Is it necessary? How low is your drop?
no adjutable mounts, I don't feel they are necessary...
here is my drop:
Sly, I have mine set at 3 in the back, and 2 or 3 in the front, depending...
02-14-2003, 07:59 PM
#110
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nice photoshop astro, your car doesn't rally sit that low all the time, right?
02-14-2003, 08:12 PM
#111
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btw, just got my teins from arnold today
02-14-2003, 11:40 PM
#113
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Originally posted by Astroboy
no adjutable mounts, I don't feel they are necessary...
here is my drop:
Sly, I have mine set at 3 in the back, and 2 or 3 in the front, depending...
no adjutable mounts, I don't feel they are necessary...
here is my drop:
Sly, I have mine set at 3 in the back, and 2 or 3 in the front, depending...
Advan Model 5's are straight sexay!!
nice work as always.
02-16-2003, 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by peiqinglong
Advan Model 5s 19x8 I believe.
Advan Model 5s 19x8 I believe.
what size are they in terms of offset?
reason why i'm asking, when it comes time to get my rims, i'm worried abour rubbing.
i want to go with an 18x8 though with 225/40/zr18, or 235/40/zr18
what do you guys think?
02-16-2003, 07:04 PM
#117
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by slyraskal
yup, i looked at them on the advan website, i like em a lot
what size are they in terms of offset?
reason why i'm asking, when it comes time to get my rims, i'm worried abour rubbing.
i want to go with an 18x8 though with 225/40/zr18, or 235/40/zr18
what do you guys think?
yup, i looked at them on the advan website, i like em a lot
what size are they in terms of offset?
reason why i'm asking, when it comes time to get my rims, i'm worried abour rubbing.
i want to go with an 18x8 though with 225/40/zr18, or 235/40/zr18
what do you guys think?
Here is a link (in Japanese). I can make out the 19x8 with the following offsets:
+45 / +38 / + 30 (for the 19x8 -- 114.3 AND 18x8 -- 114.3)
LINK: http://www.yrc.co.jp/tire/wheel/avs_m5.html
02-16-2003, 10:46 PM
#118
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robb m.
robb m.
Originally posted by mattg
nice photoshop astro, your car doesn't rally sit that low all the time, right?
nice photoshop astro, your car doesn't rally sit that low all the time, right?
I take that as an insult.
My car is ALWAYS that low, that's how I drive it around...
I have 3/4" of ground clearance to my cusco tie bar, and it scrapes a lot...but it's a great early warning system
02-16-2003, 11:16 PM
#119
The Creator
heres a hardly photoshoppable pic showing how low he was at a show here in Albany...
its the same height as the pics above... he rides it like that.
same as i ride mine come summer
its the same height as the pics above... he rides it like that.
same as i ride mine come summer
