JaDia4

I talked to a guy today who said he could put together a turbo kit for about $6k. He's already feb'd one up for an AV6, producing 398 whp. He says he would use a T72 turbo. Any thoughts on that particular unit? Also if I decide to stay NA what should I have done besides h/e/i and the upcoming Hope Sys. products? Meaning should I have them change rods, pistons, cams, etc?

allmotor_2000

Any pictures?

JaDia4

Sorry no pics. They have a website, but I couldn't get the link for the gallery to work.
www.premiereautotech.com

BlueCLS6

And who makes the 'T72'. Ball-bearing or journal bearing?

JaDia4

yeah, I don't have a work order for all the parts and labor. I only had a 10 minute conversation with the guy. He didn't recommend "boring" out or lowering compression. Just FI. Of course the most expensive mod. If I can tomorrow I'll stop by and get a work order for a complete turbo install. And see what kind of NA upgrades they can do.

allmotor_2000

Probably Turbonetics. How come BlueCLS6 is biased towards Garrett???

BlueCLS6

Who me?

scalbert

Please do get the infoirmation as you know, there is often a lot of talk out there.

scalbert

It depends on what your goals are. How much power do you want to make??

zigzagzig

a T72? are you looking to drag only? the lag on that thing is gonna be insane

ferizzo

I wouldn't think that lag would be a problem since the CLS6 has enough power as is down low (not a helluva lot but more than a civic or s2000).

evilone

does any one even make internalls other than stock for our car.. ive never seen any.

car_lost

of course... custom.

dukmahsik

t-72? what's the a/r of the exhaust housing? what size wheel? etc? what is the effiency map? a t-72 is a big turbo, i would go with a 54 trim-60 trim turbo with exh. a/r of about .8, u dont want too much lag

JaDia4

Okay I went back to Premiere AutoTechniks this afternoon and had them print out a work order for the kit/install. Here is what they said, sorry I didn't ask for specific sizes.

For 6-8 psi ...using stock fuel system
Precision T72 Turbo --- $950
Turbo Manifold --- $900
Tial Wastegate --- $275
Greddy Type S BOV --- $190
BOV Flange --- $40
Autometer Boost Guage --- $70
Autometer A/F ratio guage --- $63
Dual Gauge Pod --- $35
Greddy Intercooler --- $750
Intercooler Piping --- $250
Misc Parts, etc. --- $150
Install --- $1100

Subtotal --- $3673
Tax Rate --- 6.00%
Sales Tax --- $220
Total --- $3893

Fuel Management For higher boost
Greddy E-manage --- $680
420cc or 550cc Injectors --- $660
Total --- $1340

...or...

Aeromotive Digital FMU --- $480
Injectors --- $660
Wahlbro Fuel Pump --- $140
Total --- $1280

...or...

Greddy Rebic 4 --- $680
1 add'l 720cc injector --- $200
Total --- $880

Then they can also add:

Turbo Timer $95
Boost Controller $340 (Greddy Profec B, or HKS EVC)

So how does this all look?

allmotor_2000

I am really surprised about the Turbo Manifold for $900. It definateley cannot be stainless-steel. Make sure the Turbo has a good solid mount! Are they cutting up the Comptech header or the factory manifold - that could explain the cheaper price?!?

Make sure you use good quality oil-lines etc. Are they welding to the oil-pan?

By the way, when you add everything up, its $4773 + tax = $5059

Now, you CANNOT use the stock fuel system for 6-8psi!?! That is just plain dumb! You need at least an FMU like Comptech - add anotehr $350 (incl. fuel lines) and now you are at $5400.

Figure in the E-manage installed and its ~$6100. Now, realize that there are NO larger injectors available for this car - I have tried already. Without the E-manage, you will have a lean-spot at mid-to-low RPMs under boost - its not tunable with just an FMU. I can't believe you were quoted for 450cc or 550cc injectors - they won't idle correctly, IMO.

Other than the above, it seems to be a pretty decent kit for $6100. I'd opt for stainless steel which should increase the price to just under $7K.

Good luck with it... Please let me know how it turns out and the dyno #'s etc.

JaDia4

AllMotor,
Thanks, I forgot to add in the install price to the total. I'm not "turbo-smart" at all, so its good that you would chime in with some advice. For +$6k I'd want to end up at about 400 or more whp. I know that's probably asking alot, but that AV6 has 398 whp with the same unit. So how does this kit compare to your kit?

allmotor_2000

I don't think you'll get 400whp for the '$6K' kit... IMO.

Compared to our kit, the follwoing are different:

(1) Garrett GT35R ball-bearing turbo specifically sized for our car (upto 600hp)
(2) Completeley stainless-steel piping

I'll be installing an external injector on mine for higher boost levels.

(3) Experience - I have done this two times already on this car and I know what works/doesn't work!

JaDia4

One of the mechanics claims they briefly boosted that AV6 up to 14psi!

allmotor_2000

Well then, that's probably where the 389whp came about!

scalbert

Do they realize the car has 10.5:1 CR, it doesn't appear so.

As allmotor mentioned, they need something for fuel and it needs to be more than an FMU for anything above 6 PSI. In fact, I went lean with just the FMU once I installed the IC which ended up requiring the E-Manage.

They are making assumption which is all they can do at this point. Also, I have to agree that this is most likely not stainless plumbing. Being in South Florida I would demand stainless. Considering there will be those gotcha's that they did not expect I would not be surprised if the final drive out price was not in the $7500 range after tuning etc.

And about tuning, if they plan on tuning based on that Autometer A/F gauge, run away as quickly as possible.

scalbert

That doesn't count when it is only one pass and they have to push it off the rollers.

allmotor_2000

Jadia4 - Realize that I/we are not bashing your prospective setup... just making sure you know what it takes and the consequent requirements. It's not that easy!

JaDia4

We takled alot about the high compression and adding boost. I told them that you had gone up to 8psi (If I remember correctly). But in fairness to them they said they had only went to 14 psi once and didn't recommend boosting even near that high again.


Last year I posted another custom kit, and someone said the same thing, "run away quickly!"

Also in fairness to them they did say that they were trying to give me the most economical setup (though I didn't ask for that). Thanks for the advice guys.

scalbert

Absolutely!!!

scalbert

I would discuss with them the items which we have mentioned and see how they respond.

JaDia4

Guys, I never thought you were bashing. I posted this in hopes that you two specifically would reply honestly but critically. I have to believe that you guys would just give honest opinions to keep board members from letting themselves get screwed. You know how these written replies don't always seem to have the same context that was intended. So just in case I didn't say it before, Thanks guys. When I can understand them, I really look forward to your posts.