scalbert

I got up early this morning and made it to the dyno for testing of the blower and e-Manage. The plots are below but here are the numbers for those eager: 323.0 WHP and 281.4 lb/ft. I am very pleased with those numbers on a vehicle only pushing about 6 PSI non-intercooled boost. With the IC and 8 PSI boost, the 370 – 380 WHP goal seems realistic.

Now here is the story. I got there early because I knew Jeff from TOV was going to be testing an ’04 TL 5AT and wanted to watch the show. It was pretty impressive laying down 213 WHP. It was great to meet Jeff considering I have read many of their articles over the years. There may even be something about my car over there soon as he stayed around for it.

We also tested the e-Manage on Cass’s (r10apple) TL-S with H/I/P and he laid down nearly 234 WHP. However, the timing control when trying to advance did not work. The car read multiple misfires and set the SES light flashing. So it looks like the e-Manage has limited functionality on an NA car. So it looks like the Unichip is it for NA tuning.

Now on to my car; the first pull netted 315 WHP. I then tried it again in fourth, I used 3rd on the first run, and achieved the same value. I then plugged in the IMRC actuator and made a run in fourth and netted about 320 WHP; with about 8 lb/ft difference between 4k – 5k revs. So there is some difference with the IMRC plugged in but not major. After adding a little fuel I then netted the 323 WHP number.

But then things started getting weird and I don’t know what it was, but will be investigating. I had fuel being added from 5k revs on up in different amount. BTW, I did not need the bleeder screw as it looked fine in the mid range and was leaning out up high anyway. But next it started richening up quite a bit between 5500 – 6500 revs. So I pulled out the additional fuel except at 5k revs but it was still rich. After nearly twenty pulls I was just able to start bringing it back up to where I was. But something had changed and was most likely in the factory ECU. I could have kept toying with it to get it where it needed to be but time was growing short for me so I called it a day.

With the information learned from this, the installation of another O2 sensor bung, I should be able to figure out was going on with the change and then finalize the tuning. I suspect that 330 is within reach.

But about the e-Manage, it did exactly what I needed it to do and I am happy in how it performed. It pulled timing and added fuel (and even pulled fuel through use of the Airflow Adjustment map) where I asked it to. Had conditions not changed it would have been completed with even higher numbers. Overall I am quite pleased with the results of my car as 323 WHP is not to be ashamed of and knowing there is a little more to unleash.

Original Plot Scan

Davediego

great #'s, how much did the e-manage alone add?

scalbert

Not much at this time, just a few. But this is because of the unknown occurrence we witnessed. Had this richening not occurred or we had more time I suspect about 5 - 10 WHP could have been squeezed out of it.

killercalf

Wow, 323 WHP?! What exactly do you have on your CL? I wish my car had that much power.

scalbert

For power adders I have the Comptech Supercharger and Headers. I also have a King Motorsports ported throttle body, Mugen thermostat and fan switch. Then lastly the Greddy e-Manage.

ChucksTL_RENAMED

Way to go Steve! What is your estimated crank HP?

allmotor_2000

Nice numbers Steve

With the IC and more tuning, you'll be at around 360-370whp
at 6psi

How much timing did you pull under boost? Also... what are the #'s without ANY fuel addition (other than the Comptech FPR, of course)?

allmotor_2000

Also, do you have a AFR plot as well?

All VTEC cars run rich when VTEC activates... at 6psi you don't need ANY additional fuel when in VTEC - on a turbo application when you have 5-6psi at 3K-5K, you tend to lean out and hence would need the e-manage to supplement.

Scrib

Absolutely nothing wrong with those numbers!

pimpscls

wow can you make some vids of your car jesus!!!!

Smitty

What did the car do?...

... nice numbers Steve......

Smitty

scalbert

That is about 390 crank HP.

scalbert

That would be nice although I was thinking a little more conservative. With the IC and 8 PSI 380 WHP should be within reach.

I never really go to do much with the timing. It did pull timing as expected but shortly after starting the timing portion is when it started richening up. So I reset all of that and went back to fuel changes.

The pulls without any e-Manage input were in the 315 - 320 range. So the e-Manage didn't really help the peak power. But by tuning it at certain points, I was able to smooth it out and get rid of some knock.

Since they used a wide band monitor I had them install a bung so now I am ready for my WBO2. I just need to finish it. Once that is in I will get out on the highway and try to determine why it went so rich on me between 5500 - 6500.

scalbert

I'll try and stop by next week and get a few of these.

Correct, when the VTEC change over occurs under boost it went lean quickly. With the IMRC plugged in and without any control from the e-Manage it jumped up to nearly 13.0:1 from the mid 11's.

Right now I am adding 7.5% to the injector pulse width at 5k revs. 2.5% at 4500 and 4% from 5500 on up.

scalbert

It went rich from 5500 - 6500; dropping to about 10.5:1 and this was without any fuel enrichment from the e-Manage. I was able to get some of that out of it by using the airflow correction map but decided it was not worth it.

typeR

so what about the N/A vehical....i'd like to here more on that?...the dyno for it...and do you think anything can be done for the dips at IMRC opening and at vtec engagement?

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Impressive to say the least you should embaress couple vettes on the HW...

Chaptorial

Damn 323 hp to the groud? Outstanding use of the S/C.

scalbert

I'm sure Cass will provide his dyno plot soon. He started off at about 224 and ended up around 234. So with some time on the rollers the power picked up. I did take away fuel across the board to get it closer to the 13.0:1 range which did provide some gains but the peak wasn't all that much improved. However, it did increase power across the board.

With that said, the main reason for the trying the e-Manage was the ignition control. It can still be used for fuel control but isn't as attractive now. But it is still reasonably priced and an alternative to the VAFC.

But IMO, the Unichip seems to be the best NA choice.

typeR

so what about altering the 2 previously mentioned sensors with voltage clamps...and emanage,or safc for fuel...how much timing would you guess could be squeezed out of the ect,iat?...and would you be interested even if in another thread into going into any detail about how to clamp those sensors as well as using what ever method to change the vtec change over point????

scalbert

That would be very limited, just use a lower temp stat as that is about all you can get with this. Any more and you will start throwing codes or the ECU ignores the quick change in the signal.

typeR

already did that...so then its time to start lookin at uni chip....what about vtec? isnt that an easy one? or no?

DISRUPTV

congrats on such great numbers!


scalbert, do u think adding an exhaust system can possibly unleash another 8-12whp since u are boosted?

scalbert

From what I have seen, it really would not be nessesary. The points are pretty much ideal.

scalbert

Yes, I would say it could certainly be in that range if not more. But I don't know if I will do one yet. If I do I will probably just buy one but the thought of designing my own has crossed my mind.

darrinb

great #'s, although i am a bit dissapointed that it aint gonna work on a n/a car

scalbert

Look on the bright side, there is still the Unichip which is proven unit.

typeR

for a regular S but i notice that if i dont nail the shift i fall just out of vtec and i wouldnt mind if my shift put enough into the hi cam that it didnt occur at that dip in power...500 rpms at the most...

darrinb

does the uni chip have to be tuned?? what can i expect to gain from the chip w/ my i/h/p??

scalbert

No, it will work fine for you as is.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...hreadid=117096

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...hreadid=127043

jgscott

Scal,

WOW. Do you have may the Highest output CL street car ever recorded here ? Is that the record. Know there were some 3.5 cars but dont remember them with that HP documented.

If want, I am in Law GA. Have just got Neuspeed complete Cat back system. I could meet you next time and with 3 bolts and slip out of hangers we could switch.

Neuspeed staff owns a 2003 CLS 6sp with C/T SC and that was what they developed system for. They have been around for a long time. Blower cars always like openning up intake and exhaust.
Will also help rich condition.

scalbert

Naw, allmotor_2000's 6-Speed, when the turbo was on it, made just shy of 350 WHP. Had he had the tuning ability now available I am sure he could have seen much higher. Outside of that I think there may have been some nitrous 6-Speeds which have made similar if not greater numbers.

IMO, within the next year we will start seeing some CL-S's making in the upper 300's if not breaking the 400 WHP threshold.

As for the exhaust, thanks and I may call you on that. I am still debating on the exhaust route and will probably make a decision after the intercooler is completed.

jgscott

Was the Guy running Dyno at shop surprised ?

scalbert

Not really, he has quite a few high HP machines come through there.

scalbert

BTW, here is the difference between when I was NA and now boosted. This give a good perspective of the overall power increases.

ModAddict

You did not lower the fuel pressure, right? Could the 5k rpm, 7.5% increase, at at 100+psi FP, stretch the injectors to the point they are not closing when they should be?

Street tuning with the Tech Edge WBO2 can help you get dialed in without the expense of the dyno, but it's hard to watch it visually, so the logging capability is something you will want to take advantage of asap.

Off topic, something is going on with my tranny that I'll post up in a new thread.

babyblue

scalbert,

those are some amazing numbers bro... I was wondering if you have some pics, plus if you could list the performance parts on your car that he be appreciated... All the best with the 380 mark, and please keep us updated ...

Nashua_Night_Hawk

almost 75 lbft of torque gained at the wheels .... maybe this is the best CT SC application ever installed. Now I just wants to know why some other CT SC will net only some 25-45 lbft of torque.

scalbert

That is a possibility. But it was so repeatable and started leaning out after 6500 revs it does seem likely. Plus, I could get it to lean out linearly with the Airflow Adjustment map by putting in about -35% for 5500 and 6000 cells.

I'll have someone else driving while I am tuning and will still log. I am still somewhat of a responsible individual.

I'll check that thread out; I do hope everything is fine.

scalbert

What type of pics, of the blower installation?? My car looks stock, except under the hood, so it isn't all that great to look at.

For power adders I have the Comptech Supercharger and Headers. I also have a King Motorsports ported throttle body, Mugen thermostat and fan switch. Then lastly the Greddy e-Manage.