dukmahsik

what do the cl-s year 01 put down to the wheels stock? how about after aem cai? thanks

pimpscls

id say with the aem CAI, you would get ne where from 198 to 208, if I'm correct?

scalbert

195 - 200 WHP stock would be in the nromal range. With the intake I would expect it to fall in the 205 - 210 range.

dukmahsik

yikes we lose that much? 60hp? sucks

scalbert

yep, about 23%.

fender4

I bet most of that lost 60 hp is in the auto trans at the 2nd and 3rd gear ,,read burning them up as heat,,,

Frainky

23%.....how much does a rear wheel drive lose then? We have less of drive train to lose power through being FWD? nice avatar TOOL

blader

it has less to do with FWD and RWD than it does Auto to Manual. Manuals only lose about 18% I think.

Frainky

Thats true but I remeber reading that you lose a certain percent here a certain percent there such as through the drivetrain. Im wondering as far as automatics go because a front wheel drive vehicle doesnt have the extra length of the drive shaft and so on.

EZZ

I always believed that FWD loses less than RWD but there were several G35coupes that did dynos (5at stock). They got around 225 rwhp which is about 20% loss. 23% seems very high...are you sure that is typical for a CLS?

Frainky

Scalbert quoted the 23% and from what I've seen he knows his shit so I tend to believe him. I still had to ask and hope hes mistaken

scalbert

Thanks about the avatar, I switch it up between Aenima and Undertow periodically.

Here is my take on the drivetrain losses. Keep in mind; this is from personal experience and from what I have seen. Also, this is not an absolute, certain makes and models may deviate from this.

That said and IMO, in general FWD manuals will be more efficient than RWD vehicles due to less mass to rotate. However, FWD automatics will have more drivetrain loss due to the packaging and heat generated in this small package.

Many FWD manuals have been tested in the range of 13% - 15%. It is generally accepted that RWD manuals lose about 15% - 17%. However, the 6MT CL-S loses more than the average FWD manual at about 17% due to the HLSD sapping a little of the power.

RWD automatics generally fall in the 18% - 20% range for losses. Whereas FWD automatic lose about 20% - 25% depending on the make. This Honda 5AT seems to be at the higher end of loses coming in at about 23%.

Just looking at the numbers confirms this concept. The typical stock 5AT dynos at about 200 WHP (sometimes less) which is 23% The 6MT dynos at about 215 WHP (sometimes a little higher) which puts it at 17% which is what an estimate was on the 6MT with HLSD. The 6MT confirms that the engine is making 260 HP otherwise you could chalk the 5AT lower output to an over rated engine. But the 6MT numbers refutes that idea and support the concept that the 5AT loses about 23%.

As another example, the GTP, with only a 4AT, loses about 21% and IMO, GM Powertrain can build a better automatic than Honda.

NSX-Tuner

So my CLS 6MT that dyno'd at 305 WHP has about 368 crank HP? I've always figured it was between 355 and 370.

scalbert

Yep, so your previous assumptions were correct!!!