Hi all,

I am new to this forum and new to manual also. What is the proper way to slow down when driving manual? My driving instructor told me to use engine brake in every single gear plus brake. I think this is kind of dumb since it will wear out my clutch/synchro. Please tell me what is the good way to slow down during regular driving, and what is the good way to slow down during emergency. Thank you all.

 

on a flat road you can coast to a stop in N... on a decline listen to the instructor.

 

Is double clutching necessary on CL-S when downshifting (when want speed up)? Is it better to use double declutching to slow down? thx all

 

You can always use engine braking for the gear you're already in, but to downshift each gear while braking is not necessary. It may be more fun though.....

But to always downshift each gear while coming to a stop puts more wear on your drivetrain, for no real reason.

 

Why would you want to double clutch while downshifting?

Even if you wanted to match revs, you could easily do it without double clutching.

 

doesn't double clutching help the gear from wearing and makes the car go smooth?

 

No. Believe me, there's no reason to double clutch. Ask your driving instructor.

 

Coasting to a stop in neutral is crazy.. Just take your foot off the gas in the gear you are already in (and apply braking). You will get much more engine breaking than a slush box and when you reach a slow enough speed (depends on the gear) put in the clutch so you don't stall. Nashua have you ever owned a manual?

 

i have driven manuals for 35 years. Never double clutched. Never had too (thats what synchronizers are for). Never wore out a synchronizer. This kind of advice come from the inexperienced.

 

I used to drive my dad's MB... a 4-speed stick, 230 model 1974!

 

I've always been told that it's easier (and cheaper) to replace the brakes then it is to replace the clutch

I'll downshift for taking corners, but I usually just lay off the gas in the gear I'm in and then apply the brakes and drop it into neutral when coming to a stop.

I also try not to sit at a stop with the clutch pedal depressed so that the throwout bearing doesn't wear as much.

Alot of this comes from driving my volkswagens, but it makes sense to me

 

......eingine braking DOES NOT WEAR OUT YOUR CLUTCH. if your completely clutched out, then the engine is directly connected to the wheels......the clutch plates aren't rubbing....they are spinning as one. Do whatever you want to stop. going through all the gears to slow down is stupid cause THAT wears out your clutch. double clutching? only on crap cars into 1st. get rid of that annoying wind up

 

All driving situations are different.
Sometimes I just put the clutch in and brake and sometimes I row down through the gears.

Shawn S

PS…. Double Clutching is NOT necessary. It’s an Acura, not a Mack.

 

Several things here.
1) You don't have to use engine braking. But it does give you a little more car control. I generally do use it. You can skip gears going down, it's not necessary to shift into all of them.

2) If you do shift down, always blip the engine during the shift to match drive train rpms to motor rpms. Failing to do this and just dragging the car down on the clutch WILL cause the clutch to wear prematurely. Takes a little practice to learn how much to blip for a given speed / gear, but you'll get it. Double clutching isn't necessary, that's what synchros are for.

3) Always put the car in neutral and let the clutch out if you'll be stopped for more than 5 - 10 seconds. Holding the clutch in will dramatically shorten the life of the throw out bearing.

Hope all this helps -- enjoy.

 

Yeah....what they said.

The first thing to do when slowing down is to just let your foot off the gas. This is in contrast to automatics, which sometimes have a habit of up-shifting when you do that (depending on how you were driving before). As someone said, using the engine to brake will give you more control, just don't downshift to 2nd gear at like 80mph. Not good.

I've been engine braking regularly since I've started driving stick. 16 years ago. My last two cars (since '93) have been stick, and I've never replaced a clutch OR brakes. Of course, I've traded my last two cars in around 60K, but still. The first stick I drove (my parent's '81 Honda Accord) didn't need a clutch until ~100,000 miles or so.

What you don't want to do is to ride the clutch on the way down, that is to say, don't keep it only partially depressed for extended periods of time. The gears will only be partially engaged and this will wear the clutch and/or synchros.

The toughest thing about engine braking is doing it smoothly. The easiest way to match revs is to hit every gear on the way down, but if you're using the brakes, at the same time, you can usually skip gears. As you drive your car, you'll get a feel for what your revs should be in a particular gear at a particular speed. You'll probably cause the car to lurch some while you get the hang of it. That's OK, but don't make a habit of it.

Double clutching in the modern transmission is fully unnecessary. It's for big trucks and older trannies without synchros.

Good luck!

 

you risk blowing your tranny if you miss a downshift - starter is right about matching engine RPM's if you must downshift (like going around a corner).

 

As others have said, it depends on the situation.

Coming to a complete stop from freeway to off ramp light - I downshift from the gear I'm in (6th or 5th) to about 4th or 3rd, and then, with my foot off the gas, cruise to a stop. Clutch disengaged when revs drop to 1.5 - 2K or so. Brakes applied from maybe 30mph on down.

Of couse, you can also shift into neutral early and just let the friction slow you down (say a long ramp to the light with no one in front of you). I agree that you have less engine control then the downshifting method, however, you can always select a gear quickly if needed. I always think that this method saves (a tiny bit) of gas as you are just idling the engine where otherwise you would be reving at 4K.

Stop and go traffic and need to stop short - both clucth pedal and brakes are pushed down. No time to downshift.

Going into turn - depend on how fast I'm starting the turn and how fast I want to leave. I usually downshift to 2nd when I'm entering or just making the turn. Here's where rev matching makes more of a difference in everyday driving.

You can also slow your manual car without changing gears or disengaging the clutch, as long as you are revving above 1.5 - 2K, you'll have enough torque for a response when you step on the pedal again. Obviously, there's a limit to how slow you can go in a given gear, but you can usually drop by 10-15 MPH without a change (traffic that is gently going slower and slower). The question to ask yourself is, 'how much torque do I need/want for this situation?'

I guess the key is to remember that the brakes and the engine/transmission are separate entities. You can accomplish slowing with each. You have to decide what is right for the situation. Sometimes one or the other; sometimes a combination of both.

And I agree with the others about these points too:
--You don't have to double clutch (ever!). We have synchros. That's what they are there for.
--I put my car in neutral and my foot is off the clutch pedal if I am stopped for more then 10 or 15 seconds (saves wear on throw out bolt).

I also don't think that rev matching is necessary whenever you down shift. Do get the gear right. It is a more 'elegant' technique, but not needed with every downshift. We're talking everyday driving with longer stopping/slowing distances, not everyday street racing.

I also think of my clutch as an expendable item. I know that they are more expensive to replace then the brakes, but they are perfectably replaceable and their very design implies wear. I don't mind using my clutch to gently slip into the gear. If you use reasonable technique it should last 75K - 125K miles. Fine with me.

 

I just re-read my response and the rest of the thread.

The real joy of a manual transmission car is highlighted here. There are MANY ways to control your car for a given situation and choice that have to be made in an instant. These will determine the speed of a given change/manuever and the torque/HP curve applied.

We all have the power to choose between a torque-y tires squealing attack or a gentle 'I've got the grandma and groceries in the car' approach.

I really love a manual transmission. It is what makes driving an 'experience' versus that 'automatic drudgery'. YMMV/IMHO...

 

What Slimey said!

That's why true performance cars are manuals -- the fun of really driving, whether at speed or just touring, is enhanced with a manual.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by greenmonster
[B]I've always been told that it's easier (and cheaper) to replace the brakes then it is to replace the clutch

what he said

cheaper to replace brakes then trans or clutch

if you feel like mike schumacher, then downshift and blip the throttle to match the revs and have some fun

 

Good stuff Slimey,

And 99% of this CAN’T be duplicated effectively with the Slush-Shift Auto. Especially rev-matching.
That’s why I HATED mine with a passion.

Shawn S

 

Well, to make a long story short. The old performance rule of thumb was to use the gears to slow down so that you would have even gear wear. However, you don't have to use the gears and engine to slow you down unless you want to. The automatic doesn't shift down from 5th to 1st unless it is almost stopped. It would be beneficial to use a lower gear going down a steep grade and to take corners. Just do what you want and HAVE FUN!...and welcome to the Club.

 

Except in traffic!

 

This comment comes up a lot, and I just don't understand it. I've never considered a manual transmission car to be more cumbersome in traffic. I've only owned manuals but have driven family/rental autos and note no real difference in traffic...and I do know traffic. I grew up in the Los Angeles metro are and have lived, worked, or driven in the largest metro areas of this country and London, UK.

Manual in traffic. No biggie.

 

That’s another thing I hated about the AUTO was that stupid “Grade Logic” thing.
It was excellent when going UP hills and kept the Tranny from hunting gears, but was way too conservative going DOWN.

There are a LOT of hills by my place and sometimes you just want to freewheel down the road.
With my 2001 if I was in D4 or D5 the “Grade Logic” system would always downshift and force me to actually ACCELERATE a bit to maintain my speed down the hills.

Shawn S

 

Back when I used to live in MA, I would sometimes have to drive my truck to NYC on business. The van was a stick and when I got caught in traffic, my clutch foot would cramp up on me at times. Not only was that painful, but harder than hell to drive stop and go. I enjoy shifting very much when I have the opportunity to drive a stick, but just not in traffic...in my opinion of course.

 

If your car is in neutral and idling, you are actually using MORE gas than if it were coasting down that long ramp in any gear. See, the fuel injector pulse is shut off completely in most coasting situations, so you'd actually be using no gas at all in the situation you have described above. But if you popped it into neutral and were idling, of course you would be using some fuel.

This is a little-known secret about modern engine controls. So let that car rev as much as you want while coasting to a stop.

 

I drove a 1991 Passat manual for ten years and 130K miles and used engine-braking the whole way.

I never replaced the clutch though in the last 10K miles it could have used it.

I essentially tried to use my brake pedal as little as possible. This is not for any good reason except that's how I wanted to drive it.

While YMMV, and while I don't know what experts would say is "proper", I think engine braking is absolutely fine on a daily basis.

 

I didn't think I was actually saving a significant amount of gas, but I didn't know about what you just mentioned.

And thinking about it, on those long ramps (in reality) I probably actually coast in gear until the revs drop (to 1.5K or so) and then shift into neutral in the last 30 - 50 feet. I don't think I really coast in 'real' neutral very often. Like everyone else, I'd rather be in more control and ready for an evasive manuver. I presented that statement as more of an available choice.

I learn something new everyday.

 

I guess I just don't have crampy feet.

 

Thank you all for your valueable information. This is a great forum.. I posted the same question in a different forum and only 2 people replied me. This forum certainly ROCKS!!!!

You all are the best!!!!

 

You don't have to double clutch....

But you can always shift without pressing clutch. It's always fun to up shift and down shift without the clutch. Just match rev's and shift!

Yes, I have heard this can be bad on the synchro's, but I still do it once in a while when I'm on a quiet road.

 

I havn't had much experience downshifting with my 03 CL S 6SP. I drove it from the dealer to my garage and it's there until spring.

I had a 5-sp 4cyl MR2 and always downshifted. The RPM's were always high and you could feel the car grip better around those corners and quick stops. I traded in the car with 158000 miles with original clutch. The only problem I had was a slow leak in the hydrolic clutch. Never could find the leak so I had to tap off the fluid ever 3000 miles or so.

I hope the CL-S gives me this much pleasure!

Steve

 

Cars have brakes dont they! Its pointless to change gears to slow down and put unneccesary strees on the trani. Put it in nuetral and brake.