Al Uminum

Ok anything that helps braking on this car is very very good.
As far as I can tell the gas slotted rotors have two different hole designs. Is this because one is for front and the other is for rear?
Sorry but it must be my stupid day, but does a non-colored "rear pair" cost $163 or is that just one rotor that is $163? So that a pair is $326?
The entire car would then be $572? Eh?

Help!

http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/002373.html

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01 CL Type-S, White\Black\Navi\Comptech Springs+Sways\Burl Shifter\Guards\Smokers Package

EricL

Sorry --> this falls into a question for a question.

I looked at the parts. I wonder why the fronts are less than the rears. The stock fronts are bigger and vented -- yes. The stock rears are solid and not vented.

Did you call or email Snook?

About picture he shows in the TL forum (my humble guess):

The gold (cad. plate?) shown in the picture looks like the vented = front.

The silver shown in the picture (has no vents) -- looks like back rotor = rear.

I looked over the price list. The prices say $123 "EACH" for front (better check with him on that) *and* $163 "EACH" for rear.

So, total should be:
$246 + $326 = $572 = yep.

You should ask about the front vs. rear -- that seems funny!

I would expect the hole pattern to be different for the front vs. rear due to the venting of the fronts.

(Just my best guess -- send the email to Snook)

Would you let us know how they work out, if you get them?




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2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ Navi.
Mud Guards.
Wheel locks
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W*
T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1

AcuraFanatic

Most cars brakes in the front are larger than the rear brakes because of the added weight of the engine and pure physics puts more weight towards the center of the car. This is why a lot of cars have disc brakes in the front and drums in the rears (less expensive cars). Nonetheless, I wonder if you could buy a pair of front brake discs and then replace the rears with them. And also, I believe Comptech makes a set of disc brakes for the TL, but I don't know if they'd work with the CL-S because of the differnet brake setup.

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Roccatanski

The rears are even more different, they are set up for the internal emergency brake, which is some what styled on the old corvette design. That style being internal/expanding brake shoes. No inner and outer bearings and races, but the inner and inside of the rotor is machined and clearanced for the e-brake shoes. Go figure?

Jens H.

Rob:I was wondering if these rotors are physically the same size as the stock units?In all honesty before you go and do the drilled slotted rotor thing try better brake pads and or steel braided lines.If these rotor are in fact just stock units that have been drilled and slotted you may not want to do this,remember a car's brakes work on the idea that momentum is converted to heat,if you reduce the amount of surface area by drilling and slotting a rotor you will reduce the amount brake pad to rotor contact area and reduce the braking effectiveness of the car.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

Al Uminum

Jens
Hey bud. Hoping all is well.
Now about brakes. Dammit the brakes on this car just can't handle the car's weight as I'd like it. Remembering my teg and Lancia and my tiny little 914 Porsche makes me want to cry because those cars would always stop with plenty to spare. Jens can you put in the braided lines if I get them? Also I'd love to have better pads but unless I missed it in the cars manual I wouldn't know what pads to order. I'd like the best for this car. What quality pads would fit my car.

As always a BIG THANK YOU!!!
Rob

Btw do you take your Miata to work here in NJ?

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01 CL Type-S, White\Black\Navi\Comptech Springs+Sways\Burl Shifter\Guards\Smokers Package

Jens H.

Hey Rob,I don't see any reason why we wouldn't do brake lines on your car.Check out Goodridge products I believe they even offer a lifetime warranty on their braided lines and they are DOT approved.Ofcourse as you know this does not mean that Acura endorses them so they would not fall under your car's warranty and should they cause other problems in the car this is also not covered but this is is also highly unlikely so no worries.The brake lines I believe are less than 200.00 dollars in price but should firm up the pedal feel quite a bit and allow somewhat greater brake feel.Comparing your previous cars to the CL/S is kind of an apples to oranges thing remember that 914 might have 2200 pounds your CL/S presses the earth with some 3200 pounds so needless to say brake performance will be different.On the other hand in a recent road test our car did very well against a BMW 330 so the brakes are quite good.As far as the pads themselves go look at Ferodo products etc the variety is somewhat large so I will have to go take a look and see what's up.By the way the brake lines are available thru Comptech.My Miata is in storage in the winter but yes it makes the trip to work from time to time but it is mostly just a weekend playtoy.I usually get it out of storage in late spring and this year I have to add water injection because the supercharger is causing a minor amount of Ignition ping on real hard acceleration.Ofcourse the clutch is just about done so when that is replaced I will also be putting in a lightweight flywheel.Well I'll let you know what I find out about brake pads.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

Chief F1 Fan

Seems to me that if you increase the diameter of the rear brake rotor, you will have to change the mounting points for the calipers also. It therefore seems unlikely to me that you'd be able to increase the diameter of the rear rotors by swapping them for front-sized parts.

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'01 Satin Silver CL-S, tint, Momo Cobra Carbon, Mobil1, V1
Future mods: Comptech springs, sways & headers
18" wheels (Heidfelds or Volks) with S-02's
aerokit?

soopa

JUST SO YOU GUYS KNOW....

All these are, are stock brakes that are sent out to be drilled & dipped.

Tim simply buys the OEM brake discs... ships them out to a company (I forget the name) who drills them etc.

They are not larger then our stock discs. And they wont give you a significant braking performance increase.

They will however make your car look 10x better for a decent price.

If you replace your stock wheels with a thin spoke design... and dont have the dough to get a REAL brake upgrade like Brembo or Baer Claw... then you should definately get these... just for the looks alone.

And yes... you can get just the fronts if you want (theres no point in getting just the rears though).

The front discs have that "waved" drill hole pattern... the rears have the "staggered" pattern.

Don't forget to post pics if you get them!

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit

CLpower

why would you buy factory rotors that are then drilled. Doesn't this harm the structure of the brake? Also, why not just buy power slots or power stop rotors? they are the same diameter, but are thicker. They also are cheaper then stock rotors.


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"the needle got buried at 140.....1,500 RPM later...the tach got buried"

pays to be young and crazy


99 3.0 CL
55 Chevy Suburban (chopped, dropped, tubbed and FLAME RETARDENT!!)

58 Eldorado Biarritz

FDao

Just FYI,

Cross Drilled rotors are actually flawed in design as they compromise the integrity of the disk, especially if it's an OEM one that's just drilled. Sure, they may allow better cooling of the brakes, but this can be achieved with the slotted technique without compromising the structure of the disk.

Anyone else like to add to this?

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Frank
01-S White/Parchment
Comptech Sways & Springs

Jens H.

Assuming that you take a stock sized rotor and remove material from it's surface by slotting it or cross drilling it you will have accomplished next to nothing.The reasoning is that when you apply the brakes the energy of the car traveling forward is converted to heat which must be absorbed and released to the atmosphere thru the rotors.Reducing the amount of material in the rotor by slotting or cross drilling will hinder this conversion of energy hence negatively impacting the brake system.It has been mentioned that cross drilling or slotting a rotor will help with a problem known as "outgassing",most compounds used today in brake pad material are not of an organic compound (asbestos was outlawed).These new compounds are not really subject to outgassing as were organic compound pads.They could outgas but only under severe conditions such as racing,if you elect to drive at these extremes you would be well advised to upgrade your brake system as it was designed for the street not the race track.Another problem is that due to the lowered thermal capacity of slotted or cross drilled rotors they are subject to cracking or warping to a much greater degree than stock rotors.As it stands these rotors are primarily in my opinion a visual improvement not a performance improvement.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

CLpower

the only true performance improvement is your really don'[t have to worry about rotor fade


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"the needle got buried at 140.....1,500 RPM later...the tach got buried"

pays to be young and crazy


99 3.0 CL
55 Chevy Suburban (chopped, dropped, tubbed and FLAME RETARDENT!!)

58 Eldorado Biarritz

Jens H.

Yes if you went with larger rotors and pads and calipers I would agree but in the case of stock drilled and slotted rotors you are actually making a smaller amount of rotor surface available for the brake pad to act on so you have gained nothing.Except ofcourse cool looks but that won't stop your car.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

FDao

Well said Jens! The benefit to these slotted or cross-drilled disk occurs at high speed braking, not the usual street speed

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Frank
01-S White/Parchment
Comptech Sways & Springs

bc01cls

My $.02 on this............I have a Dakota P/U truck with horribly thin Chrysler rotors that I replaced from warping twice due to boat hauling and camping (Heavy loading). I went to Wagner cross drilled rotors (not stock & drilled) and I haven't touched them in over 60,000 miles--no warping or cracking due to the hot pad sitting on one section of the rotor at a stop. However I did notice that I needed to apply more initial foot pressure to get the same stopping that I did with the stock ones. Once applied, the brakes seem to get increasingly stronger than stock after the initial application. Make sense??

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CL-S PDG, TR Typhoon Wheels, Solaris 9005, guards, nose mask, V-1 & remote.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...493&p=31386570

Al Uminum

So I gather its better to not use the stock rotors that have been altered. Makes sense. I know increasing the size of the rotors and pads helps but what is the advantage to having more pistons within the rotor. Does this apply more hydraulic pressure on the pads?

Are brakes specific to cetain models or will a quality brake manufacturer have systems that can work on any car as long as sizing is correct?

Thanks …

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01 CL Type-S, White\Black\Navi\Comptech Springs+Sways\Burl Shifter\Guards\Smokers Package

Jens H.

Actually brake systems are designed for each specific vehicle.There are numerous aftermarket companies that design and supply brake systems for standard production vehicles.Comptech,Brembo,Stillen,etc supply such systems.However they are expensive and frequently due to the extreme size of the rotors even require larger wheels including the spare as the standard wheels will not have enough clearance for the parts.Multiple piston calipers are commonly found on ultra high performance cars and most competition cars they allow for large brake pads that would be impractical with single piston designs.About that truck that worked better with aftermarket rotors than the factory stuff,the factory brake rotors might have been fairly low in quality to begin with an upgrade to a better rotor made of higher quality material was probably what the truck needed.If you really feel your brake system needs an upgrade try better pads and steel braided lines for openers then if that fails to impress you can always see if there are big brake kits to be had for your car but remember what I said this stuff is expensive.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

EricL

BTW (an $0.02 production)

The wheel conduct heat from the rotors.

This is another spec that the wheel manufacturers don't provide (thermal mass and conduction/dissipation). Check out the heat of the stock wheels some time after a hard braking run and think about it.

There were a group a folks that used to cross drill Porsche rotors with good results, but these things were huge and who really knew if any braking problems occured from a heat mass standpoint (bulk amount of thermal material to soak up heat -- this includes the rotor, wheel, and other parts related to "heat sinking").

Without tests, it would be hard to know if the cross drilled/slotted brakes worked better or worse, and at what speeds. (I haven't seen any air ducts (in our cars) pointed at the rotors.)

I do know that these Porsche guys would cross drill the vented rotors (in very specific positions), chamfer the holes, and heat cycle the drilled product(s).

Before anyone bites me, just some thoughts...



------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ Navi.
Mud Guards.
Wheel locks
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W*
T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1