BBsAcuraRacing

Picked up my girlfriends car today, went in on Wed WITH an appointment, had to argue that a loaner is free with SPP to the SA!!!
Car would hesitate like on two cylinders after shutting off and restarting in 10 mins. In 4 days they found NO engine code, so it is OK. I questioned the service manager because this has happened 4-5 times and will suddenly clear up, definately a fuel delivery or electronic problem. I made some suggestions and gave him some service bulletins I obtained through GM tech center in Warren.
The two ridiculous comments that we given by the GM staff were:
"If you want to start paying us we will check everything out" was overheard by GF from SA to mechanic, and I was told "We don't get paid to guess, let me get the service manager for ya and put me on hold 3.5 mins" He was kind but offered no more than lip service to get the car picked up.
WTF is up with the attitudes at the big 3 dealerships. No wonder the marketshares are dropping!!!

Beltfed

Not all American dealers are bad, just do some research on which ones are "extremely" CSI oriented (not all are)....you will get good service there.

BBsAcuraRacing

Perhaps it was easier for them to blow it off becaus it is a low end cavalier and she is a woman??

Beltfed

Well, that depends....it could be the case.

Is this a large Chevy dealer?

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: Beltfed ]

BBsAcuraRacing

Yes very large and in an upscale neighborhood...

Beltfed

Ok, so it could be few things....one, the first thing you said- cheap car and being a woman/just being a woman/just having a cheap model car.

two, the service department may just plain "suck."

three, a large Chevy dealer sells "lots" of cars- makes an Acura dealer look like nothing.....maybe the service department is sometimes good and when its crazy busy- they aren't so good.

Can't really make excuses for them....assuming this was the first service visit, try again next time- maybe they will be better hopefully.

BBsAcuraRacing

Third time back for service for the same problem in the past 6 months.
The power of the pen seems to be the best solution to get them off their ass. Are we expecting too much here or are we spoiled???

Rock Dog

All Domestic dealers in the Metro Detroit area are sh!t. ALL OF THEM.

Why??? Because they have more business than they know what to do with. People who don't live here cannot imagine the fact that the imports are out numbered 10-1 here. Why??? Because everyone and their brother gets a discount from Ford, GM, or DaimlerChrysler.
We have more car dealers per square mile than anywhere else in the country. We also have over a million people directly connected to the domestic market. The dealers here don't have to provide good service. They have too much work as it is.

magnetic1

Youjust have to find the right dealer... Cavalier or not... I drive a 'upscale' Chevy and have had issues with service.. until I found a dealer which I thought was great.

What exactly are your problems with the Cavalier? year? I can try to look up some TSBs for you.

BBsAcuraRacing

1998 base 4cyl with manual. Hesitaion problems. Very intermittent.

magnetic1

Has it ever stalled on you? There is a TSB regarding Hesitation:

HESITATION, SAG, OR ENGINE STALL DURING COLD DRIVEWAY #77-65-25A

REVISION: 02/26/98

THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO UPDATE CALIBRATION INFORMATION. PLEASE DISCARD CORPORATE BULLETIN NUMBER 77-65-25 (SECTION 6E-- ENGINE FUEL AND EMISSION). __________________________________________________ ____________________

SUBJECT: HESITATION, SAG, OR ENGINE STALL DURING COLD DRIVEAWAY MANEUVER (REPROGRAM PCM)

MODELS: 1998 CHEVROLET CAVALIER 1998 PONTIAC SUNFIRE WITH 2.2L ENGINE (VIN 4 - RPO LN2) AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (MD9, MN4)

CONDITION:

SOME VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT A HESITATION, ENGINE SAG, OR AN ENGINE STALL DURING LIGHT ACCELERATION (30 PERCENT THROTTLE OR LESS) WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD. THIS CONDITION MAY BE MORE NOTICEABLE WHEN THE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE IS LESS THAN 10'C (50'F).

VEHICLES INVOLVED:

INVOLVED ARE CERTAIN 1998 J-CAR MODELS EQUIPPED WITH THE 2.2L (RPO LN2) VIN ENGINE CODE 4 ENGINE, THAT FALL WITHIN THE FOLLOWING VIN BREAKPOINTS:

YEAR 1998 DIVISION CHEVROLET MODEL CAVALIER PLANT LANSING PLANT CODE M VIN THROUGH AND INCLUDING WM115495

YEAR 1998 DIVISION CHEVROLET MODEL CAVALIER PLANT LORDSTOWN PLANT CODE 7 VIN THROUGH AND INCLUDING W7156443

YEAR 1998 DIVISION CHEVROLET MODEL CAVALIER PLANT RAMOS ARIZPE PLANT CODE S VIN THROUGH AND INCLUDING WS818867

YEAR 1998 DIVISION CHEVROLET MODEL CAVALIER PLANT GENASYS PLANT CODE B VIN THROUGH AND INCLUDING WB900878

YEAR 1998 DIVISION PONTIAC MODEL SUNFIRE PLANT LORDSTOWN PLANT CODE 7 VIN THROUGH AND INCLUDING W7526103

CAUSE:

CERTAIN FUELS IN COMBINATION WITH VARIATIONS IN MANUFACTURING MAY ALLOW SOME CARS TO RUN LEANER UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.

CORRECTION:

REPROGRAM THE PCM WITH THE REVISED CALIBRATION THAT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE ABOVE CONDITIONS. THESE CALIBRATIONS ARE AVAILABLE ON 1997 CD-ROM #19 AND LATER VERSIONS.

CALIBRATION NUMBERS:

USE THE CORRECT CALIBRATION FROM THE LIST BELOW.

ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION LN2 AND 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION NEW CALIBRATION NUMBER 09355323 BROADCAST CODE CLKY OLD CALIBRATION NUMBER 09353453 BROADCAST CODE CKHN USAGE LN2 / MN4 / NF2 / NB7 (NATIONWIDE US AND CANADIAN EXPORT)

ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION LN2 AND 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION NEW CALIBRATION NUMBER 09355333 BROADCAST CODE CLKZ OLD CALIBRATION NUMBER 09353463 BROADCAST CODE CKHP USAGE LN2 / MN4 / K29 (UNLEADED EXPORT)

ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION LN2 AND 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION NEW CALIBRATION NUMBER 09355343 BROADCAST CODE CLLA OLD CALIBRATION NUMBER 09353473 BROADCAST CODE CKHR USAGE LN2 / MN4 / NM2 (LEADED EXPORT)

ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION LN2 AND 3-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION NEW CALIBRATION NUMBER 09355303 BROADCAST CODE CLKW OLD CALIBRATION NUMBER 09353423 BROADCAST CODE CKHK USAGE LN2 / MD9 / NF2 / NB7 (NATIONWIDE US AND CANADIAN EXPORT)

ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION LN2 AND 3-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION NEW CALIBRATION NUMBER 09355313 BROADCAST CODE CLKX OLD CALIBRATION NUMBER 09353433 BROADCAST CODE CKHL USAGE LN2 / MD9 / K29 (UNLEADED EXPORT)

WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION: FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:

LABOR OPERATION DESCRIPTION LABOR TIME J6355 REPROGRAM PCM (ON CAR) 0.4 HR J6352 REPROGRAM PCM (OFF CAR) 0.4 HR

FIGURES: 0 ATTACHMENTS: 0

GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.

magnetic1

If that isnt the case, then here is the actual procedure the dealer is supposed to follow to diagnose the problem. I assume you have already replaced spark plugs as that would be the first thing I would have looked at... then maybe change fuel.. or maybe injectors are clogged? Try running some Chevron Techron in your fuel the next time you fill up as well... your 98 4cyl should have a 2.4LTwinCam motor.. with a direct ignition system... something may be up with that as well.. Hope this helps :/

Definition: Momentary lack of response as the accelerator is pushed down. Can occur at any vehicle speed. Usually more pronounced when first trying to make the vehicle move, as from a stop sign. May cause the engine to stall if severe enough.

Preliminary: Check PCM for codes

Sensor/System:
[*]Check the Oxygen sensor (O2S 1). The O2S 1should respond quickly to different throttle positions. If not, check the O2S 1 for silicon or other contaminants from fuel or the use of improper RTV sealant. The sensors may have a white powdery coating. Silicon contamination causes a high but false O2S 1 signal voltage (rich exhaust indication). The PCM will reduce the amount of fuel delivered to the engine, causing a severe driveability problem. Refer to Oxygen sensor in Serial Data Communications . [*]Check the EGR valve for a stuck open pintle. [*]Check for proper operation of the MAP Sensor. [*]Check for proper operation of the TP sensor. [*]Check for proper operation of the ECT sensor.

Fuel System:[*]Check the fuel pressure. Refer to Fuel System Diagnosis . [*]Check for contaminated fuel. Refer to Alcohol/Contaminants-in-Fuel Diagnosis . [*]Check the injectors. Refer to Fuel Injector Balance Test . [*]Check items which can cause an engine to run rich (long term fuel trim is significantly in the negative range). Refer to Diagnostic Aids for DTC P0172 Fuel Trim System Rich . [*]Check items that can cause an engine to run lean (long term fuel trim is significantly in the positive range). Refer to Diagnostic Aids for DTC P0171 Fuel Trim System Lean . [*]Check for proper operation of the Evaporative Emission (EVAP) control system.

Ignition System:
[*]Check the spark plugs for the following conditions: [*]Check for wet or fuel fouled spark plugs. [*]Check for cracks on the spark plugs. [*]Check for wear. [*]Check for improper spark plug gap. [*]Check for burned electrodes or heavy deposits. [*]If the spark plugs are fuel or oil fouled, the cause of the fouling must be determined before replacing the spark plugs. [*]Check the Ignition Control Module (ICM) for proper ground connection. [*]Check the ignition coils for cracks or carbon tracking. [*]Check the spark plug wires for proper resistance and condition.



[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: magnetic1 ]

magnetic1

There is also a BUNCH more TSBs on the car... just for your reference. If you need more details on a specific one.. lemme know:

#83-66-01 THUMPING NOISE FROM THE MUFFLER CAN BE HEARD

#83-10-94 WATERLEAK BETWEEN THE CONV. TOP COVER & FRONT/& OR SIDE

#87-71-66 DELAYED, SLOW OR NO SECOND TO THIRD GEAR UPSHIFT

#23-50-05B REDUCING DISC BRAKE COME BACKS (NEW TOOL KIT & POLICY CHANGE)

#33-17-01A PAINT PEELING FROM MUFFLER (NEW REPAIR PAINT AVAILABLE)

#73-16-16A SEAT BELT LATCH SLIDES TO SEAT BELT ANCHOR SLEEVE

#77-65-25A HESITATION, SAG, OR ENGINE STALL DURING COLD DRIVEWAY

#87-61-19 INCREASED OIL CONSUMPTION (REPLACE VALVE ROCKER

#83-64-16 WEAK OR DISCHARGED BATTERY, SLOW STARTING, GEN. OR MIL. ON

#87-65-19 DTC U1016, STORED CODE WITH NO ACTIVE SYMPTOMS

#43-17-01B BUMPS OR RUST COLORED SPOTS IN PAINT DUE TO RAIL/IRON DUST

#63-66-04C INFO. METALLIC NOISE OR COLD RAP HEARD ON COLD EXHAUST

#83-15-18A FRONT OUTSIDE HANDLE STICKS (REMOVE CORNER OF DOOR HANDLE)

#99-06-02-010 Erratic and Incorrect Engine Temperature Reading (Bleed Air From Cooling System

#99-08-65-001 Rear Footwell Wet (Insert Drain Path)

#99-08-50-007 Material Bulge in Top Backside of Front Bucket Seat (Add Plastic Tie Straps to Seat)

#99-09-40-001 Frt Seat Shoulder Belt Cover at Pillar Will not Stay Fastened (Replace Bolt)

#99-08-57-019 Technical - Water Leak at Front Header (Measure/Remove Material, Install Shims)

#99-03-08-004 Front/Rear Stabilizer Shaft Squawk/Squeak Noise (Replace Frt/Rear Bushings)

#99-08-64-015 Left Hand Man. Mirror Does Not Adjust when Adjust Lever is Moved (Adjust Lever)

#99-01-38-003 Engine/Transmission Whine at 2800-3200 RPM (Replace Heater Inlet Hose)

#99-08-64-026 Door Rattles When Closing (Adjust Bracket/Install Tape)

#99-08-45-005 Accessory Receptacle is Inoperative (Check Aftermarket Device Plug)

#00-05-24-001 Snow Intrusion Into Rr Drum Brake Assem (Replace Rr Brake Assem Backing Plates)

#00-08-49-003 Tech - Rattle/Squeak in RH Side of IP or RF Dr Trim Panel Scratched

#00-08-51-001 Outside Rear View Mirror Housing Turns Chalky/Dull (Color/Clear Coat Mirror)

#01-02-32-001 Clunk Noise from Front of Vehicle During Turning Maneuver (Install New Shaft)

#01-06-01-004 Hoot/Whistling at Start-Up during Cold Temp (Replace Idler Pulley Assembly)

#99-01-39-004A Air Conditioning Odor (Install Kit)