Pic of my AEM CAI.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">When I try to go to my page, I see a message that says 'Page not Available.' What does this mean?
Your page may have been suspended for violation of our Terms of Service, if all of the following statements are true:
Visiting your home page displays a "Page Not Available" error page.
Attempting to load your File Manager, you get the "Unable to Process Request" error.
Logging on using your FTP program produces the error stating that you have reached the "Maximum number of simultaneous connections."
If even one of the above statements are not true, the issue may be temporary and you should try to visit your page again in a few minutes.
</font>
Your page may have been suspended for violation of our Terms of Service, if all of the following statements are true:
Visiting your home page displays a "Page Not Available" error page.
Attempting to load your File Manager, you get the "Unable to Process Request" error.
Logging on using your FTP program produces the error stating that you have reached the "Maximum number of simultaneous connections."
If even one of the above statements are not true, the issue may be temporary and you should try to visit your page again in a few minutes.
</font>
I just uploaded them though !
yah can not see them
------------------
2001 Acura Red CL Type S.
1997 Honda Civic EX.
!!!! VTEC Power !!!!
Powered by HONDA
Powered by MUGEN
typescl@yahoo.com
------------------
2001 Acura Red CL Type S.
1997 Honda Civic EX.
!!!! VTEC Power !!!!
Powered by HONDA
Powered by MUGEN
typescl@yahoo.com
Here ya go ...and you're welcome 
Everyone just remeber to use the "fp" in front of geocities: for example http://fp.geocities.com/rurofan/Dsc00421.jpg
It was stupid for geo to change it like this, but oh well..
------------------
- Kvit -
2001 CL-P Monterey Blue, Parchment interior
Polarg BlHybrid M-6 Road lamps
Polarg/PIAA super white interior lights *bling bling*
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...725&a=10358832
Club Events Moderator
[This message has been edited by KavexTrax (edited 03-01-2001).]

Everyone just remeber to use the "fp" in front of geocities: for example http://fp.geocities.com/rurofan/Dsc00421.jpg
It was stupid for geo to change it like this, but oh well..
------------------
- Kvit -
2001 CL-P Monterey Blue, Parchment interior
Polarg BlHybrid M-6 Road lamps
Polarg/PIAA super white interior lights *bling bling*
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...725&a=10358832
Club Events Moderator
[This message has been edited by KavexTrax (edited 03-01-2001).]
Trending Topics
rurofan, how long did the entire process take? Any to be aware of?
------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
Muds
Wheel locks
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car
------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
Muds
Wheel locks
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ELITE TYPE S:
rurofan, not sure if it was you...but weren't you going to have the bypass valve installed too?
</font>
rurofan, not sure if it was you...but weren't you going to have the bypass valve installed too?
</font>
To install the bypass valve, he would have to cut into the tube, just around the curve. I think that will get rid of the CAI's clean, cool look.
------------------
01' CL Type-S, Navigation, Spoiler
4% tint on the backs and 34% on the fronts
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs (2" Drop)
That is one seriously fat piece of pipe. Looks great, though. Can't wait to pick one up for myself.
------------------
Black/black CLS
Comptech headers, springs, swaybars
Koni yellows
PIAA 19169 road lamps
Solaris Hi beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/17
35% tint/CAI next
------------------
Black/black CLS
Comptech headers, springs, swaybars
Koni yellows
PIAA 19169 road lamps
Solaris Hi beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/17
35% tint/CAI next
The process took 2 1/2 hours, not too long and not complicated.
be aware of the hose is not touching the engine itself. it's the one that goes from the engine and over the CAI then connected to the back. it's kinda tricky to put it. of course you can go around the coolant and pull it away from the engine too. I only wish they had done a better job on that part. when I came home I adjusted a little by myself to make sure the hose is fine and not touching anything.
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
be aware of the hose is not touching the engine itself. it's the one that goes from the engine and over the CAI then connected to the back. it's kinda tricky to put it. of course you can go around the coolant and pull it away from the engine too. I only wish they had done a better job on that part. when I came home I adjusted a little by myself to make sure the hose is fine and not touching anything.
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
Hey rurofan--did you send the intake through the stock airbox like some others have done or did you remove the whole thing?
COULD the AEM go through the hole in the stock airbox or is that not even a possibility with this intake?
------------------
Black/black CLS
Comptech headers, springs, swaybars
Koni yellows
PIAA 19169 road lamps
Solaris Hi beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/17
35% tint/CAI next
COULD the AEM go through the hole in the stock airbox or is that not even a possibility with this intake?
------------------
Black/black CLS
Comptech headers, springs, swaybars
Koni yellows
PIAA 19169 road lamps
Solaris Hi beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/17
35% tint/CAI next
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rurofan:
The process took 2 1/2 hours, not too long and not complicated.
be aware of the hose is not touching the engine itself. it's the one that goes from the engine and over the CAI then connected to the back. it's kinda tricky to put it. of course you can go around the coolant and pull it away from the engine too. I only wish they had done a better job on that part. when I came home I adjusted a little by myself to make sure the hose is fine and not touching anything.
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
</font>
The process took 2 1/2 hours, not too long and not complicated.
be aware of the hose is not touching the engine itself. it's the one that goes from the engine and over the CAI then connected to the back. it's kinda tricky to put it. of course you can go around the coolant and pull it away from the engine too. I only wish they had done a better job on that part. when I came home I adjusted a little by myself to make sure the hose is fine and not touching anything.
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
</font>
[This message has been edited by blxmjx (edited 03-01-2001).]
Man, that RED pipe looks TITS.
I am glad you guys are doing the R&D work on these things for all us procrastinators.
I like the look of the AEM, but I am leaning toward the Xephyr unit because I like the security of the bypass valve.
Whatever one I buy, it will definitely be RED.
Shawn S
------------------
Speed limits are for CARS and DRIVERS whose limits are easily exceeded !!!!!
2001 CL Type S - NAV - San Marino RED / Parchment - Spoiler - 35% Tint - Roof Visor - PIAA Lamps
GOLD Emblems & Grill - V1 w/remote - KICKER ZR-360 w/(2) 10" Alumapro Subs - Shine by ZAINO
For Pictures see: PAGE 1 PAGE 2 PAGE 3 PAGE 4 V1 & SUBS
I am glad you guys are doing the R&D work on these things for all us procrastinators.
I like the look of the AEM, but I am leaning toward the Xephyr unit because I like the security of the bypass valve.
Whatever one I buy, it will definitely be RED.
Shawn S
------------------
Speed limits are for CARS and DRIVERS whose limits are easily exceeded !!!!!
2001 CL Type S - NAV - San Marino RED / Parchment - Spoiler - 35% Tint - Roof Visor - PIAA Lamps
GOLD Emblems & Grill - V1 w/remote - KICKER ZR-360 w/(2) 10" Alumapro Subs - Shine by ZAINO
For Pictures see: PAGE 1 PAGE 2 PAGE 3 PAGE 4 V1 & SUBS
I don't know about the CAI going through stock air box, coz I took it all out.
but I WAS gonna get a red one too, but Diamond Bar Honda told me that they ran out of them, other dealers and even AEM themselves. plus they don't know how long the wait is gonna be so I went for the silver. I wouldnt' want blue coz that kinda don't mix with our car.
but I WAS gonna get a red one too, but Diamond Bar Honda told me that they ran out of them, other dealers and even AEM themselves. plus they don't know how long the wait is gonna be so I went for the silver. I wouldnt' want blue coz that kinda don't mix with our car.
Hey... snap a pic of that red one from a distance... so you can see the sides of the car too.
I cant decide between red or silver... hmm.
------------------
2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit
I cant decide between red or silver... hmm.
------------------
2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit
RuroFan, I forgot to tell you, the silver looks sweet. Gives it a discreet understated look. Not so loud like the red. I think the best color choices for the type s are the silver and red. The blue kinda clashes with the red lettering.
No prob Soopa, I'll take a pic of the red intake from a distance.
No prob Soopa, I'll take a pic of the red intake from a distance.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rurofan:
The process took 2 1/2 hours, not too long and not complicated.
be aware of the hose is not touching the engine itself. it's the one that goes from the engine and over the CAI then connected to the back. it's kinda tricky to put it. of course you can go around the coolant and pull it away from the engine too. I only wish they had done a better job on that part. when I came home I adjusted a little by myself to make sure the hose is fine and not touching anything.
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
</font>
The process took 2 1/2 hours, not too long and not complicated.
be aware of the hose is not touching the engine itself. it's the one that goes from the engine and over the CAI then connected to the back. it's kinda tricky to put it. of course you can go around the coolant and pull it away from the engine too. I only wish they had done a better job on that part. when I came home I adjusted a little by myself to make sure the hose is fine and not touching anything.
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
</font>
Could you possibly take a picture of the bypass valve location and install?? I like your idea, and now since the CAI look so damned sweet I am going to haveto get one. I want the security of the bypass valve. Decisions, Decisions
Tires first or CAI 
------------------
01'
Black/Ebony CLS
Defenetly big difference after installation. power and the torque after 5500 rpms, great looks, and of course it made the engine sounded alot more stronger and powerful.
don't worry about the noise issue though, because everything under 5500 rpm is still pretty much the same compare to the stock intake.
as for the pictures, I'll try to take some tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by rurofan (edited 03-02-2001).]
don't worry about the noise issue though, because everything under 5500 rpm is still pretty much the same compare to the stock intake.
as for the pictures, I'll try to take some tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by rurofan (edited 03-02-2001).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oonowindoo:
do u guys actually feel any difference after u installed the intake? like speedwise? and other stuff as well? and how much did u pay for ur red intake includ the shippin and handling?</font>
do u guys actually feel any difference after u installed the intake? like speedwise? and other stuff as well? and how much did u pay for ur red intake includ the shippin and handling?</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rurofan:
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
</font>
as for the bypass value, I DID installed it. but in on the first turn instead of the second turn. so you guys can't see it from the top. which made it looked pretty clean.
</font>

[This message has been edited by sts (edited 03-02-2001).]
Nope, all the installation and cutting was done on the same shop.
I don't even have to do that myself. but it was pretty easy. just measure the length of the bypass value then cut the exact length on the CAI. after you've cut the CAI in half, just use the bypass value to connect them together though your CAI still have the same length.
as I said. the whole installation took 2 & 1/2 hours, and that's include the bypass value and cutting the CAI.
my total came out 65 dollars for the whole installation.
I don't even have to do that myself. but it was pretty easy. just measure the length of the bypass value then cut the exact length on the CAI. after you've cut the CAI in half, just use the bypass value to connect them together though your CAI still have the same length.
as I said. the whole installation took 2 & 1/2 hours, and that's include the bypass value and cutting the CAI.
my total came out 65 dollars for the whole installation.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rurofan:
Nope, all the installation and cutting was done on the same shop.
I don't even have to do that myself. but it was pretty easy. just measure the length of the bypass value then cut the exact length on the CAI. after you've cut the CAI in half, just use the bypass value to connect them together though your CAI still have the same length.
</font>
Nope, all the installation and cutting was done on the same shop.
I don't even have to do that myself. but it was pretty easy. just measure the length of the bypass value then cut the exact length on the CAI. after you've cut the CAI in half, just use the bypass value to connect them together though your CAI still have the same length.
</font>
------------------
CL TYPE S - Silver
Spoiler, Eibach Pro-Kit Springs, Comptech Sways, AEM CAI
Elite Type S:
The best tool for cutting Aluminum Tubing of this size is a band-saw. It is basically a power-hacksaw. It will provide a clean ***STRAIGHT*** cut without scoring or marking the tube the way a slipping hack-saw or outside pipe-cutting tool might. You could call a few performance shops in your area and ask them if they can band-saw cut a 6061-T6 Aluminum Tube with a 3" O.D. (Outer Diameter) Hope that helps... I would avoid the hacksaw as it is very difficult to get a straight cut and its very easy for it to slip and scratch the tube. Best Luck !
Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-02-2001).]
The best tool for cutting Aluminum Tubing of this size is a band-saw. It is basically a power-hacksaw. It will provide a clean ***STRAIGHT*** cut without scoring or marking the tube the way a slipping hack-saw or outside pipe-cutting tool might. You could call a few performance shops in your area and ask them if they can band-saw cut a 6061-T6 Aluminum Tube with a 3" O.D. (Outer Diameter) Hope that helps... I would avoid the hacksaw as it is very difficult to get a straight cut and its very easy for it to slip and scratch the tube. Best Luck !
Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-02-2001).]
Also, you can ask them to get the cut cleaned with a file or sand paper.
------------------
Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks.
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards,
- Winter mats,
- Trunk liner,
- Acura Spoiler.
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator.
- PIAA 19169 road lamps.
------------------
Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks.
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards,
- Winter mats,
- Trunk liner,
- Acura Spoiler.
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator.
- PIAA 19169 road lamps.
looks damn good rurofan, I would also like to see pics of the bypass valve.
Hey, does putting the BV close to the filter undermine the purpose of the BV?
Just wanted to know why it wasn't installed topside (i.e. at the other end where the AEM connects to the MAF). Anyone have some input?
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!
Hey, does putting the BV close to the filter undermine the purpose of the BV?
Just wanted to know why it wasn't installed topside (i.e. at the other end where the AEM connects to the MAF). Anyone have some input?
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!
*****All AEM CAI Purchasers with Bypass Valve *****
The placement of the bypass valve DOES impact the operation of it. The Bypass valve should be placed as high on the lower assembly and as close to the bend as possible. The reason for this is a two parter. The first is that this valve operates on Vacuum Pressure and will open sooner the higher it is on the upper assembly. The second is that if anyone actually does submerge the filter in water and need the valve to open it will be counter productive to do so if the valve is just above the filter as it will be submerged also. The Valve needs to have an unobstructed air pathway - so mounting it below or in the opening that runs to the filter is not suitable. Placing it just above the opening may work better, however you sill have the same overall asthetic intrusion as if you locate the valve where it should be. Again, let me repeat DO NOT put the valve right atop the filter as if you actually do submerge the filter your in enough water that #1 your shoes are also wet #2 The valve is rendered useless.
Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-02-2001).]
The placement of the bypass valve DOES impact the operation of it. The Bypass valve should be placed as high on the lower assembly and as close to the bend as possible. The reason for this is a two parter. The first is that this valve operates on Vacuum Pressure and will open sooner the higher it is on the upper assembly. The second is that if anyone actually does submerge the filter in water and need the valve to open it will be counter productive to do so if the valve is just above the filter as it will be submerged also. The Valve needs to have an unobstructed air pathway - so mounting it below or in the opening that runs to the filter is not suitable. Placing it just above the opening may work better, however you sill have the same overall asthetic intrusion as if you locate the valve where it should be. Again, let me repeat DO NOT put the valve right atop the filter as if you actually do submerge the filter your in enough water that #1 your shoes are also wet #2 The valve is rendered useless.
Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-02-2001).]
Good info Chris, but why not put it right before the MAF?
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hollywood:
Good info Chris, but why not put it right before the MAF?</font>
Good info Chris, but why not put it right before the MAF?</font>
possibly accidently opening the valve while revving the engine when its that close. Under high RPM or revving the vacuum pressure closest to the throttle body butterfly valve is the greatest so it may actually cause the valve to open and draw in hot air mixture from the top of the engine compartment.
Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
Thanks, great info, ya know your s@$#
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!
No prob 
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xephyr2K:
Well for starters because we dont have a MAF in the CL. We have MAP sensors (Mass Air Pressure) </font>
Well for starters because we dont have a MAF in the CL. We have MAP sensors (Mass Air Pressure) </font>
We do have a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) but this is only half of the equation. To calculate load we use a speed density system which utilizes pressure (MAP) and a MAT (Manifold Air Temperature).
Here are the pictures for the Bypass Value.
BTW, who rated my topic worthless ?
if it's so worthless, why would I get more than 300 hits!!!?
------------------
2001 Acura CL Type-S. Blk/Blk w/Navi, Spoiler, AEM Cold Air Intake, All Season Floor Mats, Mahogany Shift Knob, Mud Guards, PIAA Super Plasma High Beams, PIAA 19169 Platinum Super White Wedge Bulbs, 10%/5% Tints.
[This message has been edited by rurofan (edited 03-02-2001).]
BTW, who rated my topic worthless ?

if it's so worthless, why would I get more than 300 hits!!!?
------------------
2001 Acura CL Type-S. Blk/Blk w/Navi, Spoiler, AEM Cold Air Intake, All Season Floor Mats, Mahogany Shift Knob, Mud Guards, PIAA Super Plasma High Beams, PIAA 19169 Platinum Super White Wedge Bulbs, 10%/5% Tints.
[This message has been edited by rurofan (edited 03-02-2001).]
Way too low.... Basically useless if you ever are going to really need it to work
Sorry Man ....
*** Boys and girls this is an example of what NOT to do to your brand new AEM CAI ! ***
Sorry but i had to make an example of you to save others
Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
Sorry Man .... *** Boys and girls this is an example of what NOT to do to your brand new AEM CAI ! ***
Sorry but i had to make an example of you to save others

Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.
------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
BTW, who rated my topic worthless ?
if it's so worthless, why would I get more than 300 hits!!!?</font>
BTW, who rated my topic worthless ?
if it's so worthless, why would I get more than 300 hits!!!?</font>
I think we all know who rated it
------------------
Hollywood is back, and so is...
Miss "Jackie Black" Black on Black 2001 CLS
Tint | airbox gutted - waiting for AEM CAI| resonator replaced by straightpipe | 12" JL Audio sub
PIAA 19170s | spoiler
14.6185 at 96.09mph 1/4 mile - Take that Car&Driver!!





