1SICKLEX

gto2050, jeez, my bad, nothing personal here....
Okay, Ferrari's have soul for a machine. They also cost $200,000. They BETTER have soul. Or let me feel like they do.

Paul

I had a camry v6 before my cl and I do agree totally with this review. The camry felt like a much solid car than the cl.

gto2050

Ha ha it's all good.

Minch00

Good review Gav, they should pay you to do this stuff

1killercls

Dash looks like a truck...even with the fake wood.

Nice write up Gav!

gavriil

Now that's a stretch there. Also, I never wrote such a thing or elluded to that. I dont think the Camry is more solid than a 2nd generation CL at all. I compared solidity with Detroit's offerings of this category.

gavriil

Thanks.

If you want an address to send a donation, let me know. :P

gavriil

Thanks.

heyitsme

I don't see that at all, the taurus used to be a sales leader in the segment and I had no love for that car other than the sho, just because toyota has a better reputation doesn't mean the camry deserves respect for sales #'s.

Things like the overdirve button where available in the 1989 maxima and locking doors when put in drive are in the 1996 windstar, very basic features let alone lexus range. The camry does not represent the same value as a tl imo in their respective price ranges.

I think its an abosolut bullshit excuse that a family sedan is exempt from a nice inside n out design for the sake of mass market production and if a car ever had a terrible inside design it was the camry, ergonomics or not.

Haha, you just can't help yourself. Like you see blood and can't help but take a bite. A lexus being built off this car doesn't mean shit other than the lexus is going to have cheap ass camry components, the nav screen comes to mind. This is exactly why bmws are built on their on platforms, luxury shares nothing with non luxury cars.

gavriil

You make it sound like reputation is gained out of the kindness of someone's heart or something. Reputation you get because your product is better (in whatever way). Toyota went through blood, sweat and tears to get that reputation. It takes hard, consistent work and it takes for ever to turn (bad or good - see Hyundai).

So, we're again back to "if your car is the sales leader, it must be a great car for the category". Now, if the difference between the number one and number two is small, both are great. The first might have won due to rebates, incentives, etc. And that's probably the case with the Accord here, though I have not driven one ever.


About the OD button, I did not say I was surpirsed to see it in the Camry, I just stated how i love that feature and it was welcome to see it in a base Camry. Short of surpirsed, I guess.


The locking doors feature...OK. My 2001 RX300 does not have it! Bad for Lexus then. Why take away from the Camry?

Probably not. I agree with you. Though, did I say the opposite anywhere?

Though, how big of a value a vehicle is, is more relevant within its own category rather than outside of it. And hence my positive comments about the Camry.


Design is subjective up to a point. The Camry's design, I personally find great for the category. Who said that it shoudl be excused because it's a mass produced car?

gavriil

I disagree with the comment about the ES using cheap Camry parts. So is the platform that the ES uses, "cheap-ass"? Cos that's the main thing shared. Many other things are shared I am sure, though many are not.

Does that make the ex-SLK a cheap ass car because 1/3rd of parts were used by a Chrysler?

Does that make our CL a cheap ass car beacuse the Accord uses parts? Same for so many cars...

Again, the Camry is a better car because Toyota knows that a Lexus will be based on it.

CL-

2nd that

1SICKLEX

Gac, heyitsme is cool but clearly I swear to Thor he posts drunk.
A cheap 14k Camry is better built than any 35k TL. Where is the value in having a car that has the build quality of a wet paper towel? I see none. The TL would be almost the perfect car, if they could actually build a solid one.

mattg

you're on crack SICKLEX. typical.

gavriil

Are you saying that, or are you saying, HE said that?

1SICKLEX

End result who cares. I ain't buying a Camry (though I have a gussied up one now ) and never buying an Acura unless it's a NSX.

Sensative cunts.

sidemarker

i also got a 03 as a loaner for a few days

smooth ride
felt solid
nice interior

just hate 2 things about it

interior
the seats are not comfortable at all!!!!!

sidemarker

cusdaddy

That is so not true. 2 of my good friends have 04 TL's and they are very solid. Much more solid than my 03 Accord or any Camry I have ever driven in. The 04 TL is a much more solid car than my CL ever was too. It may loosen up over time, but it's an outstanding car.

1SICKLEX

One day it will all make sense. Peace.

mattg

not really. you just sound like an ignorant, arrogant, jackass sometimes. that's all.

heyitsme

For a fanboy I really expect you to know more about Toyota than I do. The Camry Le starts at an msrp of 19.5k, the Accord Dx starts at an msrp of 16.3k, the value is clear.

heyitsme

How can sales figures back something up when you're not taking into account fleet sales, you found this camry on a rental lot=fleet sales. Honda does very little fleet.

If the slk was based off a chylser yes that would make it cheaper, but the parts are taken from the more expensive car making the chrysler better.

Yes the cl is cheaper for using accord parts.

I don't agree that the camry is automatically a better car just because lexus has a version. Is the taurus automatically a better car because jag made an x-type using that platform, no. Is the 350z better because its on a similiar platform as the new m45, no. There was an article comparing the g35 platform to the new m45 platform( both same related platform) and there was a definate difference with the improvements in stiffness they added to the m, around 1400% increase.

gavriil

True, but it's still sales. You say the Accord does little fleet sales like it does not want to be sold, or something. Fleet sale= sale for people to drive the car. Does that mean there is something wrong with the car? Maybe? Maybe it's the sales department.

A car's success includes the ability of the sales and marketing departments and overall effort, not just that of the engineering department of an auto maker.

gavriil

Chicken and the egg. You're assuming that when this (Toyota) platform was designed, it was designed for the Camry and the ES, RX, Highlander, etc. offerings were an afterthought. You cant possibly believe that right? Toyota is smarter than that, I am sure you'll agree.

So I will assume we agree that the platform was designed with all of these cars in mind. So some Lexus recipe went into the platform.

Now, granted, the SLK's platform was not designed with the Crossfire in mind when made (and that will change going forward for DCX).

My point does not change though. If Toyota had Lexus cars in mind when designing a platform, in addition to Toyota cars, then the Toyota cars benefit from that. And that is confirmed by me (to myself at least), every time I got into a Camry, etc.


Possibly, though my point is the opposite. My point is that the ACCORD was benefited by the CL and TL sharing its platform.


The X-Type shares the Ford Mondeo's platform. I have driven a Mondeo and it's lightyears better made and drives a ton better than any Taurus (and I have driven them all).

We dont know anything about the new M45 except how it will look like.

But if you brought the example of the G35C, then the answer is absolutely yes. Nissan was developing that platform with both Nissan and Infiniti cars in mind, so how can it not be better as opposed to the possibility of the Nissan and Infiniti cars NOT sharing the same platforms?


Of course there was. I read about that as well. The reason for that is because the M45 uses an evolved version of that platform. I expect that evolution to carry over to other Nissan and Infiniti vehicles.

But that's not my point exactly. As long as major parts of the luxo division of a given manufacturer are shared with the mama brand, then the mama brand benefits.

heyitsme

I say accord does little to no fleet sales because honda doesn't believe its good for the company and I agree. Sales is not = to sales by any means and saying its "still sales" is the same mentality ford has with the taurus, that car without rentals wouldn't even be in the top 10.

heyitsme

I think the mistake is thinking that a platform is more than a hunk of steel whether its used in a luxury car or not. The platform doesn't seperate a toyota from a lexus, its the materials and content put into the car that does.

Putting a camry next to a es platform, I'd bet there is little difference, with both being built based on saving costs. Same as the current tl using an accord platform, all cost based, not luxury based - not making the accord a better car, instead making the tl a cheaper car.