Juker008

I was first told that NOS can be simply put on and taken off before u were to go to the dealer for inspection or in our case a new tranny. Well my question is is there any way someone can check to see if nitrious has been run through the engine. I was told that nitrious leaves some sort of markings inside the combustion chamber.

Is it true that nitrious is tracable. Besides the fact of being a dumb-fuck and leaving the thing wired and in the trunk. How could the dealer (or some mechanical-Einstein) find out that nirtious passed through the engine?

TRELOS

fastvtecCL

when my last tranny went out i was just about to put NOS in my car. the wires were all run but the bottle wasn't in. when we put my nitrious in we hide the wires pretty damn good. anway i got a new tranny and the dealer didn't say shit. the only way the dealer would say anything is if you can easily see it. as far as taking it on and off it would be a pain in the ass, i would'nt do it.

NYREP1

from what i understand automotive grade NOS has another chemical in it, it is put in to deter people from using it for personal use, the chemical will make you sick vs the kind you would get at the dentist, well whatever chemical it is also turns yellow when burned so if your engine is ever opended up you will have yellow markings on your piston and cylinder walls , that a good mechanic may recognize

fastvtecCL

good point , that is also true

Juker008

Is there any way of easily removing the yellow markings, like say simply running a tank of Chevron w/ Techron through the engine or mabey even adding a bottle of engine cleaner?

One more thing is it possible to fill the bottles with pure grade laughing gas or would I need something like a medical licence to do that?

The only thing that makes those yellow markings is the addative to keep us stoners from toking it up? But if I were to get my hands on the pure shit then there would be no markings.

Anywhere I go to get it filled up, the nitrious that they would use to full my bottle up would definately have the addative?

PS If I did throw in NOS they would probabily never see it in my engine if I traded it in to Acura, right?

Thanks Guys

TRELOS

scalbert

Not trying to be overly ethical here, but if you run NOS and a component fails due to its use. Shouldn't you take responsibility and pay for the repair??

Passing the bill just hurts everyone else later.

soopa

I agree.

But there are some components of our car that our going to fail regardless of NOS.

But the NOS may void the warranty anyway...

So... i can see why youd want to hide it.

M5 Lite

Oh please! Do you work for a manufacturer or something? If we buy a car for $30k or whatever price we might have paid and have a full 4 year/50,000 mi. warranty, I would expect the car to hold up to anything I'd give it! If it doesn't, then the dealers should fix it!

There are some Viper guys around my town who are running NOS and they are wishing for the engines to blow up so they can get new ones! There is nothing wrong with that! They 'stealers' make too much money off of us anyways and don't even get me started on the 'extended' warranty programs (my car being almost $3500, covered up to 100,000/4 years).

I say let the stealers know how it feels once in a while to get scammed with someone who comes in w/ a blown engine/tranny.

EDIT: BTW, I just got a great deal from the stealer for my last Synthetic Mobil 1 Oil change for a amazing low price of $90. Last time I go there!

scalbert

This is not a very logical train of thought. But no, I do not work directly for a manufacturer (indirectly in test and measurement of products and systems). But under your thought process you should be able to do anything to a product and it should take it??

So you should be able to submerge a DVD player and expect it to work?? Should you be able to drive you car into a brick wall and not expect damage or that it will be fixed for free?? I know these are extreme examples but they fall into your definition.

Adding mods is a choice of the consumer not the manufacturer. You have now modified the car from the manufacturer’s specifications no longer making it a products they made in whole. If you added an aftermarket stereo and the additional wiring cause a fire, whose fault is that??

Now let's take this to another arena. Say you create some software for a customer and supply the source code. They make changes to the software which breaks a function. Should you be responsible for fixing the problem??

Fortunately most dealers are not that stringent when it comes to the basic mods such as intake or exhaust. But when it comes down to nitrous it gets a bit more serious. This puts serious strain on the drive train due to it not being an easy progression into the power, it comes on at once. Plus, it runs much higher cylinder pressures than what had originally been planned on.

IMO, if someone is going to modify their vehicle they should also be responsible enough to accept the inherent risks associated. By not doing so shows immaturity by not taking responsibility for one's own actions. People always have their own opinions on these topics and I side with the dealer/manufacturer on this one to a certain degree.

4pumpedCL

I wouldn't worry about the yellow deposits in the engine. Chances are the engine will be fine unless you're running a huge shot of NOS or an impoper setup. The tranny is what you need to worry about, and there's no way they can look at your tranny and see that you've been squeezing. That's my opinion.

Juker008

I agree but only to an extent. If u threw a blower on a Honda Civic (pick any), ran NOS + Nitro Methane, but kept everything else stock and something did blow. Well ovbiously its not the Manufacture's responsibility to replace or repair the vehicle. But in terms of our (CLSers) trannies when the Third one goes we are out of standard factory warranty. So the Third tranny comes out of our pockets.
What my mission is, is to go through the Third tranny before my warranty goes out. Doing so w/o voiding my warranty will require lots of help from u guys. My plan is to run NOS, till I get the damm thing Lemon Lawed. In turn recieving a refund and then purchasing a new CLS 6-speed.
So what I want to know is can I get away with spraying NOS, and can I get rid of thoes unsightly yellow 'Sulfur' markings left behind from burnt NOS?

Tnx

TRELOS

Pull_T

One of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a while.

First of all, you need to read your warranty contract. It does not stipulate that blowing a motor or tranny from N2O is covered. If you think it should be, then get the warranty agreement set up that way.

Secondly, the $90 oil change. The price is too high you say??? Do it your self, take it elsewhere or try and negotiate a better deal.

If you don't like the way a contract or purchase is set up, you can always choose not to do it.

M5 Lite

I believe the yellow markings are only in the piston chambers of then engine. Unless they opened up your engine, I think you might be able to get away with it.

Just my opinion, in no way am I encouraging this though.

There is a fine line in between "intentionally giving loss" and "unexpectedly giving loss".

I would consider giving a good 75 shot of NOS a "unexpected" loss compared with a 300 shot where that would be a intentional loss.

I know most are going to disagree with my thought process regarding 'stealers' and thats fine if you do, thats your opinion, but this is mine and I'll stand my ground.

Pull_T

There are a lot easier ways to blow your tranny than using N2O...

tankmonkey

put the car in neutral. rev 'er up to 5 grand (redline in neutral/park). drop the tranny into d5. repeat until liquified. feign innocence/ignorance.

hth.

Pull_T

You could drain the tranny fluid and drive around the block until failure.

Juker008

HAAAA. Yea I can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind. But couldn't the dealer find that out, and deem that a void of warranty due to abuse .
And if I did neutral drop the thing till DOA how the fuck could they find that out ?


TRELOS

CLpower

the other chemical in automotive nitrous is sulfer. I've used nitrous on a few cars and have never heard or seen the pistons turn yellow.


I stongly suggest never going to the dealer w/ your lines run. If i ever run into problems i just completely take out the whole system.

CLpower

and since when is the dealership ethical? They have screwed the consumer PLENTY of times, it's only fair for us to get them back every once in awhile

scalbert

I find it hilarious that people always assume that a supplier (dealer in this case) is screwing them over in some way. I do hope that your customers don't feel this way!!!

If I were screwed over I certainly would not use them again. I have yet, in the 20 some vehicles I have owned and purchased, ever felt like the dealer has been unethical. Nor have I ever allowed them to screw me over.

People's definitions vary but I would like to hear about these issues where the dealer is unethical. I know some happen but many proclaimed issues are just too high of expectations that weren't met.

moomaster_99

If given a chance, a dealer will screw you for everything. Would you pay $18K for a Tercel? No, but one of my friends ( a girl) did...they added everything they could into that car and sold it ABOVE MSRP...just because you know something about cars...you must remember that 80-90% of the people in America have no clue what the "real" price for a car is...most only know not to pay sticker...

CLpower

exactly, scalbert this shit happens all the time. There are members here that have been charged 500$ for spring installation to even have the dealer fuck up!

Juker008

Thought of it and it doesn't seem like a bad idea if only the residue of tranny oil that is left behind didn't burn and bake inside the tranny. To Acura's tranny tech guy this would be a definete sigh of missuse.
But no a bad idea at all.

Tnx

TRELOS

Pull_T

When you put fluid back in, I would imagine it would be best to re-use the old fluid rather than use new.

I really don't see why the burnt residue of the fluid would show "abuse" any more than a "regular" broken tranny. It's still "less voidable" than blowing it up using N2O, I would think.

Juker008

Tnx

Now here is my conclusion to the residue that is left from nitrous,
that reside is Sulfur. If Sulfur comes in contact with rain it then become 'acid rain'. Now if the sulfur that is left inside ur engine from nitrous comes incontact with mosture u then have a concentrated layer of so called 'acid rain' film that has now lined the combustion chamber. As long as the sulfur, and mosture from the air are present there are dammaging effects happening.
But it doesn't end there. Contact with the motor oil can spread sulfur to other engine parts. But as long as the oil is changed every 3000k and less I believe u could by pass that senerio.

But this is all hypothetical BS. I am sure there are plenty of people out there who haved NOSed like 10 cars in their life and have never had a problem. But for those of u who plan on having their car for some time (preferably not a 1gen CLS, FKN Auto) well its best to do some more research.

TRELOS

scalbert

I still do not see what is unethical if someone is willing to pay for a service or product when the price is agreed upon up front. The knowledge level of the consumer is irrelevant when it comes to these transactions being unethical. It is not the vendors’ responsibility to educate the consumer; they are responsible for their own choices.

In the case of the Tercel, she may have been ignorant on the pricing of the car and add-ons. But she could have asked more questions or brought someone along that might better understand. But was she promised something that could not be fulfilled or supplied?? That would have been unethical.

I won't talk about the springs, other than if someone is willing to pay $500 because they didn't shop around it is their fault. If there was no other source then the dealer is marking up based on supply and demand issues. Now if the install did go wrong did the dealer fix it?? If so there was a fault and acknowledgement with a remedy. But no ethical issues here.

Point being that perception of issues may make someone feel that were done wrong. But it may have to do more with lack of understanding than actual unethical treatment. But in these cases where a dealer is involved I hear statements that "they" deserve it because "they" screw people over. I have heard of some dealers that would probably fall into the unethical grouping and most are no longer in business. But because of one instance does not mean others should be treated as though they are at fault.

When related to the issue of unwarranted claims, it isn't the dealer who is screwed it is the manufacturer. In this case it would be Acura (or Honda NA) which would share the burden of cost for an unjustified warranty claim. Most here feel that the CL is just about the most car you can get in this range for the $$$. If you do feel this way then Acura has not screwed you over. By making unjustified claims you are in essences screwing them over unjustly.

I know there are certain issues involved here with the transaxle. This may be a weak area even less than acceptable for a stock engine. So this would need to be addressed more carefully as any claims so far have been addressed by the dealer and manufacturer. But knowingly adding something that will cause a shorten life of the component and hiding it when issues arise is deceitful.

Whew, too much typing on this... Oh well, to each their own (except when it will cost me more)...

ChodTheWacko

I don't recall the post, but Jens or Wayne mentioned that NOS is
easily detectable if they look for it.

If something breaks that's not related to your engine/tranny then
I would guess they won't notice your NOS if you disconnect it,
but if your tranny goes, it sounds like they'll see it.

blazerbob1

What's going to happen with tranny when supercharger, RES, and MM2 is added?! Will Acura honor warranty of tranny with all these upgrades?! Just hypothetical you know!

ChodTheWacko

RES, certainly.
Who knows what the hell MM2 is.
Supercharger, I highly highly doubt it.

wayneg

If you want to spray- be willing to pay! Not all Dealers are bad or stupid!

Juker008

What I want to know is how does the dealer find out that someone runs NOS through the engine, IF there are no lines for the dealer to see?

If evidence stays behind then what could we do to cover/get rid of the evidence.

TRELOS

Jens H.

It's simple really,in sixteen or so years I have yet to get up in the morning and go to work with the attitude that I am out to go screw a customer.What this thread boils down to is called fraud and yes I will find you out.Nitrous besides whatever this yellow residue is leaves all sort of other clues behind.Like that hole to get it in the engine or the holes where the bottle was screwed down etc.etc.Come to my job and lie about the status of your car and yes you will be busted just like you would bust me for trying to screw you.Stop where you are and think about this.We have been at this auto repair thing likely alot longer than most of you so guess what, we have seen just about all there is to see when it comes to people trying to hide the obvious or screw us to fix something under warranty that we know damn well was caused by neglect abuse etc.Frankly I am insulted by this thread and the people who feel the dealer and the manufacturer are there to absorb the cost of you trying to make a car do something that it was not intended to do.So bottom line if you spray you gonna pay .Jens

M5 Lite

Jens/Wayne,

I understand where your coming from. However, the majority of the public is NOT as smart as you guys. My mother has gone to Toyota dealers to get her oil changed and has come back with $65 oil change reciepts. Now, tell me, what is so special about the dealer that causes an oil change to be $65 for a 4 cylinder Camry (1997)? Best of all, its not even synthetic oil, its regular oil (my guess is probably the $0.99 Valvoline) After I found this out, I started to get the oil changed for her.

Now don't give me any shit about "They should shop around". My mother and father are in their late 50s and I don't expect them to have time to shop around. They should be able to take the car to their dealer and get an oil change at a reasonable cost ($35 max!).

I'm not saying that all dealers are like this, but just a majority. You guys might run your dealerships differently, but many others don't.

Juker008

Leave the EGO somewhere else . Look since when should an after-market item void my warranty if it has never damaged a single warrantied component. If I run NOS and nothing damaging happens to my car for the duration of my warranty then why should it void my warranty.
Look taddle-tale I'm asking how would they find out. Duhh everyone knows about the lines, everyone knows about the holes, so tell me what else is there.
What we are asking is what mechanical things would show. I've already got a way to bypass the yellow residue. So tell me smarty-pants what other signs are there. Oh and don't tell me melted pistons/piston rings cause thats just plain missuse. Oh and the corroded/burnt spark plugs, well u would never see that on the stock plugs, after I replace my Zex nitrous plugs with em .

TRELOS

Juker008

Damm right. The dealer makes enough money to support itself. But the dealers go futher, in my opinion too far. They know that there are people too busy, old, or just not all there to be able to look for a better deal.
Why would I have to take my CLS to Rick Case to install springs on my car for $300 only so that if they see my car they don't void my warranty on the suspension. They are springs for crying out loud. I could understand if someone wanted to get thier engine port/polished, of even bored out. But as for simple bolt ons that we could do ourselves in our own drive ways, why would it void a $30,000 warranty.
Personaly if it is so easy to remove factory parts to install aftermarket parts that would then void warranties, then it should be the manufactures fault for making it so easy for us to do so in the first place.

TRELOS

scalbert

This point is moot. If you have no damage there is no reason to bring the car in for warranty work. Your warranty on a specific item is voided only after a claim is made and denied.

The value of a warranty is only good if it is needed or called upon regardless of what is done to the vehicle. Heck, drive it off a cliff and according to the law you still have a warranty. It is only voided after you request warranty service on it. If the car is flawless throughout the warranty period you could have very well not even had a warranty since no services were ever rendered.

But getting back to M5_Lite's comments, the values of having a dealer perform work is often perceived as higher quality workmanship than what a small private shop might provide. There are also the associate costs of the location and building to add into the pricing of a somewhat simple service. Training of the technicians costs the dealer which will be transferred to the consumer. The very act of constant training allows for the technicians to demand a higher salary which again adds to the cost. This very knowledge over 'joe-grease-monky' mechanic who learned from wrenching in his back yard, justifies a premium.

As an anecdote, a carpenter is called to a house to fix a squeaking floor. He comes in, is directed to the room and walks around for a bit. He then goes back out to his truck and comes back in with a hammer and a nail. He promptly puts the nail set in place, walks around and the squeak gone. He writes up an invoice for $100 and hands it to the homeowner. The homeowner states that they won't pay him for coming in to hammer in a nail. The carpenter replies that he isn't being paid for hammering in the nail but rather knowing where the nail should go.

Ah, stupid story I know, but the point is valid when relating cost a dealer charges versus other smaller shops. However, I also am not a fan of their pricing and typically do non-warranty work myself. But if I had to choose, I would pay a dealer over a smaller independent shop to have that peace of mind.

scalbert

I think you missed the meaning of voiding a warranty. You can put nitrous on and still have a warranty. If your radio goes out it will be fixed. But if you melt a piston they won't replace your engine for free.

The voiding of a warranty only relates to the parts affected by the modified or changed items. Nothing else is affected and is still covered under the specified period.

I find it very irresponsible and childish to justify one's actions at the expense of another just because the individual feels the other party has gotten enough $$$ already. If things were turned around you would quickly see a change of attitude, IMO.

scalbert

So by this train of thought the lady that sued McDonald's over the coffee issue was correct?? In a recent joke on the radio a guy was claiming to be suing Taco Bell for making their taco's too tasty. After having gone through the drive though he couldn't wait for arriving at his destination. So he started eating while driving and got in a wreck and it is Taco Bell's fault for making too good of food.

Turn this around now and think about when the warranty expires. If they made the parts too hard to swap you would almost be required to take it to a dealer. This could now open up all kinds of litigation. There are typically two sides (and many times more) to all discussions.

Jens H.

So Trelos let me get this straight you want to know how to hide your nitrous right?Now if you come to me and say your window is broken I could honestly care less if you have fifty gallon drum of nitrous in the trunk and nozzles big enough to blow a hole through a concrete wall because I am not going to void the warranty on the car for the simple fact that the nitrous is not connected to the window so I will gladly fix it under warranty for you no questions asked .But the question you asked is what would I look for,well honestly I am not looking now am I?Unless of course there is a problem with your car that would lead me to believe that there is something afoot that I need to know about.Nitrous is a neat way to get some more out of your engine but one mistake and boom we have a problem usually an expensive one.And no warranty will not pay for it if it caused by the use of nitrous.So what am I looking for? don't give me a reason to look that is what I am looking for.Nothing is more of a bummer than having to hand a customer bad news ,ideally I want the customer happy and motoring down the road with no worries but go where you are going and bad news may be in store for you.Please remember I work for Park Ave Acura and as such I only speak about the place where I work.I know there are some dealers out there that to put it bluntly are less than honest but that is them not me nor the place where I work.Trelos why not wait till the warranty is over and then do what you will? seems alot less risky than doing something that could cost you your warranty.Jens

eclipse23

If you have NO intention of anyone finding out then why discuss it? Jens, stop wasting your breath it's useless on this guy. I would put $1000 cash down that if you brought a car in and asked Jens to sniff out if Nitrous was used or not he would give you the correct answer. It blows my mind that some people think they can outsmart master mechanics, mechanics that work on and know these engines in and out. You may fool some local mechanics but all you need is one who knows his shit and your screwed. You remind me of the guy who brings me his PC and says "I never surf the internet" and after I check some hidden spots no one knows about nor will I tell ANYONE how I get this info and I can provide evidence he was surfing. Just wait till your warranty is over and when you blow your engine you can pay the 10K to get it fixed. Hell, I have a better idea! How about pass on toasting a 30K luxo car and buy a used civic and go nuts!