resedaruss

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I should stay out of this since I haven't played with headers, but as I read through the posts on this thread, I wondered if each of the manifold sections are marked as to orientation--each one showing whether it is for the front (radiator side) or back (firewall side) of the engine.

IF (and I emphasize IF) it is even possible to bolt them on backwards so that the manifold section that is intended for the radiator side of the engine were bolted to the firewall side and vice versa, maybe that could account for the poor fit that produces leaks.

It seems improbable, but it's worth double checking.

rbf351

on the 6 speeds it's almost impossible to put them on backwards

the rear header has a bend on it, so u know which is the rear one
see the pic below so u can see what i mean

rezurex

sucks.. getting my alphawerks headers in weds... will let you guys know about fitment issues, etc

-rez

fender4

Run a straight edge across the inside flange,, or put them face down on a flat table,, there should be no rocking or valleys in the edge,,, I have a engine (outside a car) that i can bolt them up to and check fit,, ???? when you say they leak,, is it always in the exact same spot ??? if you really loosen the down pipe and then torque the head bolts down, leave down pipe loose and start the car,, is there any leaks at the header flange,, yes it'll be noisey by it's just for a few seconds to check for leaks. Can't think of anything else,,,

rbf351

the headers(manifolds) are flat, i already checked that, it's just that you can not tighten them down anymore, from under the car you can move the gasket with your finger nail, without the a pipe they can be tightened down flat to the head. it's when you attach the a pipe on that it doesn't allow you to tighten it down complety to the head cause it must have been made on the wrong angle

Bluto

So after you put everything on loose, the nuts on the headers can't be torqued first (with the a-pipe loose)?


Posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
This is what you do in this case...The following instructions have been repeated many times:
1) You attach all bolts and tighten the nuts by hand ONLY!
2) You torque the nuts of the headers to the block first
3) You torque the nuts of the headers to downpipe next
4) You torque the nuts of the downpipe to Catalic Conv third.

rbf351

[QUOTE=Bluto]So after you put everything on loose, the nuts on the headers can't be torqued first (with the a-pipe loose)?

yes they can be torqued down, but they don't lay flat on the head, they end up on an angle. i tried installing these headers 4 times already, in all different ways, nothing is gonna make them fit correctly

no offense to anyone here, but i don't need to be told how to properly install these, they were done by a mechanic that has more experience than most of you people have been living.

bottom line is that they don't fit, can't fit and i want him to answer back already and give me a refund which would be the right thing to do

Bluto

Sorry, did not realize you were a mechanic. If they don't fit, they don't fit. I hope he gets an answer to you soon.

rbf351

i'm not a mechanic, my dad is the mechanic and he's been doing this for over 35 years. So i get defensive when someone doubts what he does. i know if he says they don't fit and were made wrong then they are made wrong

rbf351

if you want watch the video i made and listen, you can hear it is leaking badly

http://www.rbf351.com/CL-S/toys/header2/sound.MPG

Hobo

sucks hope this works out well

AuCLSman

rbf351,
i'm AuClsman, and experiencing the same problem with leakage on the stone headers as you. i purchased last year and installed late may. i installed a composite asbestos type gasket at the head flange. per mod addict , i'm trying one more attempt at a leak-free install, using the thin steel gaskets from my original manifolds. good luck with yours however it turns out. off-on ing these parts is a true pain in the ass!

rbf351

no matter what gasket u are gonna use it's not going to help, these things are made completly wrong, otherwise they would seal like the stock ones do on the first try.

if you keep pulling them on and off you have a chance of destroying the head, the bolts/nuts on the head are not made to be removed a bunch of times, the head is soft and the holes can easily get ruined

ModAddict

All right here's my story and I'm stickin whith it. Please note that each time I removed and reinstalled the headers, I had to remove and reinstall the blower. I was part of the first purchase of the Stoned headers for the 5AT. I sent them to Swain Teck to be coated, direct from Nashua's wharehouse so I never saw them before they got coated. When I got them, the front header flange was not flat. It was bowed in the middle so it would rock if layed on a flat surface. I was told I could re-torque them down after they were heated up, and they should flatten out. Also, to aid in lining up the holes on the A-pipe, I drilled out all the holes on the A-pipe to the next size, and installed the headers, using the aspestos type gaskets that were sent with the headers. Everything lined up, but the cat was a bitch to get lined up enough to get the bolts on. Tqu'd from the heads back. fired up the motor, heated it up, and re tqu'd again. Sure enough it sealed up,...for a few weeks. I had a crack in the pipe itself on the front header. I took it off, had it welded, and reinstalled it. It sealed up again,... for a couple of weeks. By then, Nashua had sent me a (flat) replacement manifold, so I installed that instead, and it sealed up again,... you guessed it,... for a couple of weeks, until one of those pipes cracked. Nashua sent me a "test" set for the next batch of 5AT headers. They weren't even close to lining up. I welded the second crack, in the origional coated headers, and had noticed leaks from the gasket area the last couple of times, so decided to use the stock gasgets this time, and reinstalled the origional, coated set with the stock gaskets. It's been sealed up ever since, (25K miles). The two fuggley welds on the front header don't bother me any more, because I don't work under the hood anymore.


FOR SALE: One brand new set of Stone Racing headers for CL-S/TL-S 5AT. A-Pipe will need to be adjusted for proper alignment. $15O shipped

rbf351

i'm willing to take a replacement or my money back, all he needs to do is answer

ModAddict

By the way, Nashua did his best to take care of things for me, but the guys at Stoned Racing just couldn't seem to get these right.

ModAddict

He will answer,.... be patient, he is dealling with people over-seas.

rbf351

for shits and giggles i just went and checked the headers again with a level.
they are perfecly flat, so that takes care of that possible problem
i have nothing again the dude, i just want this resolved

rezurex

what country are these made? mexico?

rezurex

ModAddict

I think they're in Great Brittan,..... and btw, Mexico is not overseas. :P

LiQiCE

Stone headers are hand welded. They're not machine welded like Comptech headers are. I'm guessing thats the reason why these things each come out a little bit differently... although you'd think with the proper equipment (I believe a jig is whats needed .. kindof like a mold for the headers), it should still come out the same each time. Its kindof like getting your own unique set of headers... Every one is a little different

I also bought from the original batch, never got it to fit .. so I got a replacement from the 2nd batch which didn't fit either ... You can see in my sig what I ended up with

These 6-speed headers were a test fitment though right? ... So hopefully whatever problems you might be having can/will be fixed before the official group buy.

rbf351

they were kinda a test, but he said there would be no fitment issues

they should have been made identical to the auto headers except for the rear headers which gets the curve to clear the engine mount, so if the autos fix then these should have

AuCLSman

rbf351,
yes the constant on-off has caused problems with bunged threads, most notibly those on the cat converter and the head studs are a concern for sure. i did the on-off last evening, installing the original gaskets. i hesitate ever again doing a removal til i replace the cat.

AmooManiaK

I don't care how long he's been here and I don't care what everyone says, but it's I think it's really shitty that he would do something like that to people who are basically trying to help him out.

I remember when he first posted this and basically said that YOU guys had to pay for pretty much everything to TEST them and now that I read about all these times you guys had to reinstall and rebolt everything and are left with scars from trying these headers.

He should give you the money back plus compensate you for trying to help him. He pretty much wasted your time because he said they fit perfectly.

AuCLSman

mod addict,
i also had initial problems with the header parts as follows. the head flanges on both headers were heat warped requiring grinding to straighten/flatten. the O2 sensor bung on the a-pipe was installed incorrectly requiring torchcutting out a section and rewelding bung to clear the oil pan fill and grind at cut location. this was found after acura tech had removed the original and had trial fit the headers, finding the interference.
total cost: headers $400+; acura dealer trial insall $385; grinding + welding $150 misc o-ring gaskets + hardware $48 (i ran out of money so did 2nd and 3rd installs myself)
woof , now that i review this i'm pissed all over again.

rbf351

yes he said we had to pay for everything, which didn't matter to me cause i do the work myself or with my dad who is a mechanic so it's not a problem

the fact is he told me the fit without any problem and they actually don't

AmooManiaK

Not saying that he TRIED to screw you over or anything, but he also said that you had to do dynos and later changed his mind.

rbf351

i would have done a dyno, but how can you do one when you are leaking exhaust, the dyno wouldn't be correct

AmooManiaK

Exactly, what I'm trying to say is, you are/were going to put so much effort into it and now you might have to deal messed up heads/bolts because the headers don't fit.

All this time you were installing/redoing it, you could have gone to work, made another 600 bucks and gotten yourself a set of comptech's.

rbf351

thankfully none of the bolts or heads are ruined, if i keep tryingt o install them then yes a head bolt is going to get destroyed

LiQiCE

Nothing against Nashua or Stone, but I dont know of any Stone headers .. including the ones that were part of the group buy (after the test fitment) that fit perfectly. Most people needed to take the headers to a muffler shop of some sort to get the headers heated and bent to the right position.

I haven't heard of your specific problem, but I know a lot of people ended up needing to do a lot of various things to get the original 2 batches of Stone headers to fit. From needing to move the O2 sensor bung to needing to heat the A-Pipe to straighten it out and get a good fit to the cat.

I ended up spending $400 for the headers + $200 install of Stone headers (unsuccessful) + $200 install of OEM exhaust manifold + $200 install/uninstall of Stone headers (unsucessful) = $1000. I was able to get my money back for the Stone headers, and got Comptech instead ... but for all the money I spent, I basically could have bought brand new Comptech headers and saved myself a huge headache.

I had heard that the Stone headers had fixed all of these fitment issues, but this is the first time I know that anyone has bought a set since those claims were made. Sounds like there's still some problems!

Sorry, I dont want to be down on Stone or Nashua, because I think Nashua is doing a great service to the TL/CL community by trying to provide a set of good headers at a low price point... but I unfortunately didn't have a good experience with the Stone headers.

rbf351

i'm not trying to put him down either, he just now needs to step up and deal with the problem and not ignore it

fender4

I'm not questioning your abilities, I was just getting some back ground info,, if the header flange is true, it has to seal to the head,, the side load forces the down pipe is generating might be the problem but,, to be sure try bolting down the headers with out the down pipe connected.,, ??? is the leak still there ??? i :P f not the down pipe is the culprit

rbf351

of course it seals without the a pipe connected, i can't test that out cause u wouldn't be able to hear shit without the a pipe on

i know for a fact that the a pipe is whats causing the headers not to be able to lay flat on the heads

fender4

easy easy just doing some fact finding,, soapy water blows big bubbles at leaks,, anyway I had a similar problem,, and it was with some of the best acura mech in the business. My solution was to tighten down all the headers bolts 1/2 way, line up the down pipe and see if all the bolts will start finger tight. If they lined up easily I took them off and tighten all the head bolts a little more. When it became impossible to line up the down pipe, loosen up the head bolts a little, (both sides equally), once the down pipe bolts are started a little tighten down the head bolts a little at a time but all the way. Then I tighten the down pipe a litte at a time cris crossing from the front to the back. Anyway this worked for me. Good luck. :blaze:

Joe5.0

Used Comptechs are probably starting to sound good to alot of people

AmooManiaK

It might work your way, but headers are "bolt ons" If you pay that much for something that you're supposed to just bolt on, you shouldn't have to do it 5 times - and who knows, maybe later find out that something is messed up after a few thousand miles down the line.

rbf351

i wouldn't recommend these to a single person, especailly the great service i'm getting from Mahmoud

ChadT

I'm glad as hell I spent $959 shipped on my brand new ones. That's a lot for headers but beats the hell out of headaches. I put them on and tightened the bolts. No leaks. No problems.