r10apple

It was great meeting Steve (scalbert) and the guy from the Temple of Vtec, Jeff and seeing the '04 TL tester as well. I learned a lot, but still am just as lost as before...

I can't figure out how to attach my file, but the graph looks similar to scalbert's pre-s/c dyno plot with 224.6hp/188.9tq as done at Dynolab. This was done with the emanage installed, no tuning done, and it was about 37 degrees outside. I say this because the ECU seemed to fight the use of the emanage. I don't know how to quantify that fully (Steve--help!), but that is what appears to have happened. The best run after resetting my codes (which kept tripping) came 233.7hp/196.8tq, and that followed a run where the timing was adjusted and the car never broke 200hp (the graph went crazy)...The car did not like timing being touched at all. We only pulled 5 runs as it was obvious the emanage was not the answer.

Interestingly, the car ran so rich in vtec: well over 13.0...This appears to be where power can be made. I noted typeR's comment in another thread about reducing the vtec engagement range, welp, read further...

My 35 miles trip back to my dad's gave me mixed feelings about my numbers. I knew the auto would cause a significant loss in translating the power, but I honestly though this car was abnormally quick at speed at would have been in the 240/205 range with the power adders. My thinking got interrupted because my arse detected my car driving like poo...

I got to my dad's and pulled the car into the garage and was waxing philosophy with him. He read the posts and understands all of this. He used to build drag cars in his day, and today is a computer whiz and electronics freak. I had to clean my CAI filter (which was hideous by the way) as well as thrown my CT swaybars on the car. Well, while doing so the neighbor came over with his friend to look at my car since he heard me getting on it that morning. The friend happened to own a shop in Duluth Buford, and he builds and tunes many makes of cars.

After looking at the printed graphs and hearing my malays of driving, we unplugged the ECU entirely. He was at a loss as to why the emanage was fought by the ECU as well. He furthered that my car easily could have run a bit rich because of the dirty CAI filter (but certainly not all of it by any means), but stated that appeared a bit abnormal. The a/f seemed lower on my first run as well. He advised he has installed many a v-afc and the reducing of the vtec range to about 4100rpm is what he recommended to keep the car in the sweet spot (going off my relations of shifting and the vtec engaging--also noted with what typeR is saying)...Further, the leaning out of the fuel is where the majority of gains should come.

After all my handywork, we got the car back on the road and after driving it for half an hour or so, hard, and shutting it down a couple of times in the interim, it appeared to be running normal to me again (by my arse again, of course)...Later that afternoon the neighbor and his buddy asked my dad and I to come by their shop. Went that night and looked at his '69 Camaro he had been working on which laid some nice 370+...I got to run my car on their dyno three times...Same type of Dynojet, but it was after 8pm and getting cooler (probably 30degrees) and their frontal fan was bigger. Anyway, the car laid 231.2hp/191.4tq; 232.0hp/193.2tq; 231.3hp/192.9tq unmodified, and still not what I was hoping, but it was strangely different. Needless to say, many 4cyl cars were putting out extraordinary numbers as well...

Maybe the Unichip is the way to go. Maybe the vafc is the way to go. I don't really know. I know the emanage is above my skills, and certainly, doing something odd on a N/A car...

I have to say that I was more than impressed by the numbers on scalbert's s/c'd 6spd. No i/c either. Simply amazing. Unlike some of you, I don't see the giant amount of deviation in his numbers and some of the other dyno posts (sgmotoring excluded). He has done a bit more work (TB, HBP) than some, and certainly his later work should easily eclipse the 350hp/300tq numbers, and his car is a total sleeper...

What was the best part of all this? Well, seeing that '04 TL's numbers. They were deceptive: Range fro. 209hp/206tq to 214hp/204tq, but the deception came in with the tq! It almost STARTED at over 200tq from 1200 rpms, but then it fell! It went down to about 185tq, but then it stayed flat at 185tq to about 5500rpms before tailing off. It had one h=ll of a flat tq curve, but the 20lb drop was oh so deceiving. I told Steve and the guys about my playtime with a new TL in Jax. It easily got me on the launch by almost a car but I pulled on him easily after about 40mph. Likewise, from a roll, it was no contest, I just pulled steady on the new TL--and it was a 6spd...At least I am happiest knowing I still have that for now--especially since TOV rumored Comptech did indeed really want to produce the sc for the new TL (though this would be a long time from now)...

typeR

the thing ill tell you is this...a dyno is not to say how much peak power you put down ,but rather a tunning tool...every dyno will show different numbers...but goto the same one each time a mod is done to see the gains and tune it ...down worry about the number itself thats what the track is for...

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Just note the 15 lbft of torque drop at the high end range on the new 04 TL is done via ECU control. Simply, Acura is detuning the new Engine so it does not eclipse the NSX!!...

Also imagine what an A-pipe and ECU mod will do on the new TL!!

scalbert

Hey Cass, again, it was great to meet you. Email the dyno and I'll put it up for you. I was wondering when you were going to chime in...

As mentioned, the ECU did not like it when I advanced the timing. So obviously it was doing something but what occurred the ECU would not accept. The SES light started flashing and the car went way rich. Needless to say, the power sucked. We had to clear the code before we continued and just messed with the fuel from there on out.

The car was on the rich side at first; running low 12's:1. So I used the airflow adjustment map in the e-Manage and it worked; leaning out where I needed. But this did very little for power. It came up a little but nothing major, just a couple of ponies. I even leaned it out to between 13.0:1 and 13.5:1 and the power plots were nearly identical. This was perplexing as I would have expected there to be a greater change in power either way.

Had we been able to control timing things may have been different as fuel adjustments might have had a greater impact.
.

r10apple

I did not get into town until late last night, and I'm getting sick again. Freakin' 30 degrees in Atlanta of all places! I am truly a Florid anative when it comes to the cold...

Anyway, I will email the scan of my dyno as soon as I get this scanner working. I lost the disk he gave me in the last 2 hours in my mountain of mess on this desk!

I'm pretty bummed about all this. While I do not understand all of this, I can follow the logic on much of it. That being said, logic hit the fan concerning my car, and to an extent, even yours, scalbert. Tuning the emanage is certainly beyond me, and more importantly for me and the n/a crew, not the direction we need (or could use for the time being).

scalbert

I beleive there are one of two reasons for the failure of the e-Manage in advancing timing with the later being most likely. First, the triggering of the coil early was seen by the ECU an was interpreted as pre-ignition and killed the power by dumping fuel in.

Secondly, the e-manage was not guessing well enough. Since it does not have a crank position reference signal it has to guess when the trigger should occur and was terrible at this. This would then combine the previous potential when it really screwed up and as such the ECU killed power.

With the subsequent dyno's it looks like you were just about at the same place where you left off at Dynolab. I'm interested in what the plots look like.

r10apple

From what I recall, they looked almost identical on his monitor. I didn't get the actual prints like I did at Dynolab...As soon as I hear from him, I'll email it to you.

As far as teh Dynolab dyno, my scanner is fritzed and I cannot find my disk!!! I'll email that very soon to post...

darrinb

i guess its unichip for the na guys

Mike

take a pic w/your digicam and mail the jpg to steve.

r10apple

Steve (scalbert) hosted the dyno graph, so here it is. I'm still waiting on those from BMS...

http://www.flwse.com/images/steve/Dy...4/CassDyno.jpg

typeR

dude it's so small i cant see it

r10apple

email Steve or something...Hell, email me and I'll send you the file. I don't know how to attach the image as it keeps saying it is over a byte, and I'm no computer expert...

scalbert

We don't need to hear about your highway rest stop stories. :P