Mystery Mod PIC from SEMA
11-01-2001, 03:42 PM
#82
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Originally posted by NOLACLS
Do we need a tour wrench to put the bolts back in...is that what it needs 8.7 lbf-ft??? or do you just tighten it up and make sure its snug?
Do we need a tour wrench to put the bolts back in...is that what it needs 8.7 lbf-ft??? or do you just tighten it up and make sure its snug?
11-01-2001, 04:31 PM
#86
MP Video Extraordinaire
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Please explain Dyno chart
On the posted Dyno chart, which line is the trace without the mod?
Can someone explain this chart? Kinda hard to see it.
Thanks,
chrisbert
Can someone explain this chart? Kinda hard to see it.
Thanks,
chrisbert
11-01-2001, 04:37 PM
#87
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Originally posted by bioyuki
Here ya go:
Here ya go:
11-01-2001, 04:41 PM
#88
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Originally posted by typeR
i say leave it mystery mod,,,to most even with an explaination, it's still a mystery,and even if you tell someone what it is, what it does they'll give you the same look as when you tell them the headers give 30HP
i say leave it mystery mod,,,to most even with an explaination, it's still a mystery,and even if you tell someone what it is, what it does they'll give you the same look as when you tell them the headers give 30HP
11-01-2001, 05:07 PM
#90
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Originally posted by foe
dont headers only give like 15-20
dont headers only give like 15-20
11-01-2001, 06:17 PM
#91
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Originally posted by FDao
On the CL-S, the Dynos showed a 28-30HP peak gain with Comptech Headers. Apparently, if you were to look at the stock headers and Comptech's one, there is significant "bottle necking" of the stock headers. In this instance, the restrictions are significant enough to cause a ~ 30HP loss in VTEC range!
On the CL-S, the Dynos showed a 28-30HP peak gain with Comptech Headers. Apparently, if you were to look at the stock headers and Comptech's one, there is significant "bottle necking" of the stock headers. In this instance, the restrictions are significant enough to cause a ~ 30HP loss in VTEC range!
11-01-2001, 06:21 PM
#92
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Originally posted by jdtypeS
ya, in VTEC range. This ''mystery mod'' is throughout the whole band. I would much rather get 15-20 horses throughout the whole power band, then in the last 2K of it :P
ya, in VTEC range. This ''mystery mod'' is throughout the whole band. I would much rather get 15-20 horses throughout the whole power band, then in the last 2K of it :P
11-01-2001, 07:04 PM
#93
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Originally posted by FDao
Agreed.
Agreed.
11-01-2001, 07:27 PM
#94
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by NOVAwhiteTypeS
People who haven't driven or seen a cl-s w/ headers tend to say this. Headers give a totally new meaning to vtec. TRUST ME.
People who haven't driven or seen a cl-s w/ headers tend to say this. Headers give a totally new meaning to vtec. TRUST ME.
alittle more hp/and alot more lb./ft.
11-01-2001, 07:45 PM
#95
Originally posted by jdtypeS
ya, in VTEC range. This ''mystery mod'' is throughout the whole band. I would much rather get 15-20 horses throughout the whole power band, then in the last 2K of it :P
ya, in VTEC range. This ''mystery mod'' is throughout the whole band. I would much rather get 15-20 horses throughout the whole power band, then in the last 2K of it :P
11-01-2001, 07:59 PM
#97
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Originally posted by JRock
I'm confused why you can't have BOTH headers AND the mystery mod?
I'm confused why you can't have BOTH headers AND the mystery mod?
Also, I hate to be a party pooper, but why is this metal plate that resembles a pushrod v8 valve cover going to cost $300.00, when the OEM Acura Plate only costs around $60-70?? Regardless of how much power it gives, I don't see why there's extra cost. Anyone care to elaborate to me?? R&D Costs?? I'd have to see the interior surface of it to even justify R&D, as if it's just a chamber that allows more volumetric air, that's not too much R&Din there. And I do have an interest in this as I have your guy's manifold on my J30a1.
11-01-2001, 08:00 PM
#99
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Originally posted by JRock
I'm confused why you can't have BOTH headers AND the mystery mod?
I'm confused why you can't have BOTH headers AND the mystery mod?
You can have both! What JDTypes is trying to say is that given the option of choosing the headers for ~ $1100 vs the MM for ~ ?$400, he would rather do the MM first as it gives HP/TQ over a broader, useable RPM range vs the relatively short HP/TQ in VTEC range.
11-01-2001, 09:14 PM
#102
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by -=SoCalV6=-
Umm, you can have both. I think he was just sayin he'd rather have the mystery mod's hp/tq since it's throughout the rpm band rather than the headers hp/tq which comes in at the last minute in your guys peak powerband, or as it drops off, if he had to choose between the two.
Also, I hate to be a party pooper, but why is this metal plate that resembles a pushrod v8 valve cover going to cost $300.00, when the OEM Acura Plate only costs around $60-70?? Regardless of how much power it gives, I don't see why there's extra cost. Anyone care to elaborate to me?? R&D Costs?? I'd have to see the interior surface of it to even justify R&D, as if it's just a chamber that allows more volumetric air, that's not too much R&Din there. And I do have an interest in this as I have your guy's manifold on my J30a1.
Umm, you can have both. I think he was just sayin he'd rather have the mystery mod's hp/tq since it's throughout the rpm band rather than the headers hp/tq which comes in at the last minute in your guys peak powerband, or as it drops off, if he had to choose between the two.
Also, I hate to be a party pooper, but why is this metal plate that resembles a pushrod v8 valve cover going to cost $300.00, when the OEM Acura Plate only costs around $60-70?? Regardless of how much power it gives, I don't see why there's extra cost. Anyone care to elaborate to me?? R&D Costs?? I'd have to see the interior surface of it to even justify R&D, as if it's just a chamber that allows more volumetric air, that's not too much R&Din there. And I do have an interest in this as I have your guy's manifold on my J30a1.
Remember the price of CD burners when they first came out?
How about the price of HDTV now -- wait for the price in 5-years?
Doesn't quantity affect the manufacturing process?
IMO -- the simplest ideas are the best ideas. Could you image the response that this would have gotten if there were wires going everywhere and there was a bunch of moving parts.
In business, the general rule of thumb is 5 times mark-up. So, look at the gain they get and decide if the gain is worth it.
I have only one question at this point -- how much power will be produced in cooler air. I would like to see a dyno of the device on a car with CAI and Headers (before) and with the MM added at 40 degrees F (BTW -- I'm not implying anything here, just thinking about the fact that air density (resonance) is changed by the temperature of the air. The test were done on an engine in 90+ heat with high humidity (which also lowered effective air density)...
11-01-2001, 09:26 PM
#103
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Originally posted by EricL
Remember the price of CD burners when they first came out?
How about the price of HDTV now -- wait for the price in 5-years?
Doesn't quantity affect the manufacturing process?
IMO -- the simplest ideas are the best ideas. Could you image the response that this would have gotten if there were wires going everywhere and there was a bunch of moving parts.
In business, the general rule of thumb is 5 times mark-up. So, look at the gain they get and decide if the gain is worth it.
Remember the price of CD burners when they first came out?
How about the price of HDTV now -- wait for the price in 5-years?
Doesn't quantity affect the manufacturing process?
IMO -- the simplest ideas are the best ideas. Could you image the response that this would have gotten if there were wires going everywhere and there was a bunch of moving parts.
In business, the general rule of thumb is 5 times mark-up. So, look at the gain they get and decide if the gain is worth it.
...
11-01-2001, 09:49 PM
#104
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Shiny
True. Matte Gray would be good, or a couple choices in color. The Shiny Chrome just don't cut it.
Originally posted by bioyuki
Ehhh...don't like the shininess. I like the subdued matte gray and red engine bay....if they make it in gray it'll match better
.
Ehhh...don't like the shininess. I like the subdued matte gray and red engine bay....if they make it in gray it'll match better
.
11-01-2001, 10:36 PM
#105
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by EricL
Remember the price of CD burners when they first came out?
How about the price of HDTV now -- wait for the price in 5-years?
Doesn't quantity affect the manufacturing process?
IMO -- the simplest ideas are the best ideas. Could you image the response that this would have gotten if there were wires going everywhere and there was a bunch of moving parts.
In business, the general rule of thumb is 5 times mark-up. So, look at the gain they get and decide if the gain is worth it.
I have only one question at this point -- how much power will be produced in cooler air. I would like to see a dyno of the device on a car with CAI and Headers (before) and with the MM added at 40 degrees F (BTW -- I'm not implying anything here, just thinking about the fact that air density (resonance) is changed by the temperature of the air. The test were done on an engine in 90+ heat with high humidity (which also lowered effective air density)...
Remember the price of CD burners when they first came out?
How about the price of HDTV now -- wait for the price in 5-years?
Doesn't quantity affect the manufacturing process?
IMO -- the simplest ideas are the best ideas. Could you image the response that this would have gotten if there were wires going everywhere and there was a bunch of moving parts.
In business, the general rule of thumb is 5 times mark-up. So, look at the gain they get and decide if the gain is worth it.
I have only one question at this point -- how much power will be produced in cooler air. I would like to see a dyno of the device on a car with CAI and Headers (before) and with the MM added at 40 degrees F (BTW -- I'm not implying anything here, just thinking about the fact that air density (resonance) is changed by the temperature of the air. The test were done on an engine in 90+ heat with high humidity (which also lowered effective air density)...
11-01-2001, 11:51 PM
#106
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by typeR
erik i know you've asked this a couple times...but to me it's simple,stock,when colder,the car dyno's better,resonance was there than,add cai and increased power,add denser air i.e. colder air to the MM and i think it'll do better
erik i know you've asked this a couple times...but to me it's simple,stock,when colder,the car dyno's better,resonance was there than,add cai and increased power,add denser air i.e. colder air to the MM and i think it'll do better
I did take Mike’s dyno graph (stock, h, h+I) and scale it exactly to the MM vs. MM + H/E/I (at 91.8 degrees). I have it overlaid (at my place) in traced form (on paper), now I need to figure how to overlay it for upload. (It is interesting that the MM + H/E/I shows a 5 ft-lb gain across the board compared to Mike's graph.)
The dynos are corrected for air pressure and temp (but generally not humidity). AS with the earlier "bench engineering", the additional information will come with member's dynos done at 40, 50, 60, or 70 degrees.
I like to think about issues, and I will probably be adding a MM based on what I've seen so far. I also enjoy a good "puzzle".
Air Density as related to temperature:
11-02-2001, 09:12 PM
#111
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Originally posted by EricL
Take two MMs in the morning and you'll feel better!
Take two MMs in the morning and you'll feel better!
I'm with the others, gimme. You've now proven that thermodynamic engineering explainatives are best left in your hands, EricL!Good work.
Jim
11-13-2001, 09:32 PM
#114
Tech Guy / Likes to Drive
Ok, curious here
Can someone post seperate, temperature-corrected graphs with...
Stock vs. MM
Stock vs. CAI IH
Stock vs. CAI IH + MM
Thanks in advance...
Stock vs. MM
Stock vs. CAI IH
Stock vs. CAI IH + MM
Thanks in advance...
11-16-2001, 07:55 PM
#115
Suzuka Master
Re: Ok, curious here
Originally posted by bc0203
Can someone post seperate, temperature-corrected graphs with...
Stock vs. MM
Stock vs. CAI IH
Stock vs. CAI IH + MM
Thanks in advance...
Can someone post seperate, temperature-corrected graphs with...
Stock vs. MM
Stock vs. CAI IH
Stock vs. CAI IH + MM
Thanks in advance...
The dynos that are shown in various threads are "SAE corrected" and as such are corrected for pressure and temperature.
Figuring out how to "correct" the MM graphs for temperature is a nasty problem that requires some involved modeling and chances are it would NOT be correct.
IMO -- you will have to wait for more graphs done at lower temps.
(I've included a picture of the "basic" math/physics model for a Helmholtz resonator)
11-16-2001, 08:21 PM
#117
Tech Guy / Likes to Drive
Originally posted by EricL
Splice of best dyno so far with I/H (Mike's @ 70 degrees/No MM) vs the MM + I/H/E (at 90 degrees):
Splice of best dyno so far with I/H (Mike's @ 70 degrees/No MM) vs the MM + I/H/E (at 90 degrees):
Thanks.
11-16-2001, 08:56 PM
#118
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by bc0203
OK. Assuming this is the best set of graphs available... could someone explain what each line is. The two that are marked make sense, but I'm thinking about using the MM with no IH here (don't want the sucking water blues, just a bit more torque across the band).
Thanks.
OK. Assuming this is the best set of graphs available... could someone explain what each line is. The two that are marked make sense, but I'm thinking about using the MM with no IH here (don't want the sucking water blues, just a bit more torque across the band).
Thanks.
1. The purple line is the Torque "baseline" of a TLS/CLS with I/H/E (intake/headers/exhaust). The red line is the original HP baseline of a TLS/CLS with the I/H/E.
2. The two lines between the red and green HP lines are Mike's dyno graph lines (it was done at 70 degrees F). The somewhat lower line is just a CLS with headers and the slightly higher line is a CLS with headers and intake.
Why did I show this?????
I "spliced" the graph to simply present a comparison between Mike's graph at 70 degrees (one of the best around with headers and intake) vs. the MM + H/E/I graph to SHOW that Mike's I/H Torque curves and HP curves are very close to the BEST result obtained with the MM + H/E/I at 90 degrees. (I am curious as to what the MM mod will do for a car at lower temps!
Here is the curves of “stock”, MM, MM+CAI (at 90+ degrees F)::
11-16-2001, 11:22 PM
#119
Tech Guy / Likes to Drive
Originally posted by EricL
Thanks.
