hughesne

Ok, where to begin. Sorry for the long post, trying to clear my name.

A) My post about a burnt clutch smell. I believe that something failed that day under aggressive, yet not abusive driving. Acura has a commercial for the CL and the driver is rippin and roariing through the country side, upshifts, downshifts, etc. acura has meant for this car to be driven aggressive. i drive it aggressively less that 10% of the time. 90% of my miles are highway, no clutch interaction.
B) I do believe that whatever happened that day is ultimately why my clutch is burnt up, but i think something failed in the clutch and im having an independant clutch company analyze my old clutch when i get it back.
C) I took my car in after about 6K miles and had the dealer technician drive my car, i told him that something didnt feel right about 2nd gear, too grippy/grindy, he said thats how it was. i stopped by that same dealer and talked to him the other day, he remembered me and said that acura made a mistake by putting that clutch in these cars (RSX, CL), they cant handle the power. I think the reason why dealers and this board have seen little failures is because i have put more miles on my car than most. I think we will see more failures, beware. But there have been others already, jakeCL for example.
D) Acura has agreed to cover the labor costs and rental car, a piece is on backorder, so its gonna be awhile before i get it back. I had to use replacement acura parts, no comptech, which is costing me $800 for a flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate, and throwout bearings.

End

Nashua_Night_Hawk

is the new clutch the same as one you are replacing, or is it a new part number? otherwise, you will have a burnt clutch too!

civic4982

why're they charging you ANYTHING? It's not your fault that your clutch was f*cked up. hmmm... I'd be fairly upset if I had to drop 80 for basically all replaceabl parts of the tranny. How many miles do you have btw that you say is a tremndous amount?

hughesne

I dont know the part numbers, but im almost positive they are identical parts. They are charging me because they say that i have abused the car, i say that i drove the car the way it was intended and there was a problem with the clutch. I have 27K miles.

spdy0001

So by your theory, every car should be treated as the commercials show

I have seen trucks have I-beams dropped in the bed, pontiacs sliding across the desert, etc..... Im sure if you had a chevy truck and you dropped an I-beam in the rear and it messed up the suspension, you would want them to repair that too.

Eggplant-EX

As far as I am concerned, if your car is under warranty they should repair it. They would have to prove that you were driving aggressive with the car.

Either try a different dealer or wind up in small claims Court.

mt6forlife

Its a a tough one to prove either way. You can't tell me that if he spent all day holding his car on a hill by slipping the clutch that Acura should fix it for free, can you?

Shawn S

I always wondered why they put those stupid disclaimers on the AD’s like “don’t drive underwater” and “professional driver on closed racecourse”.
Now I know.

Shawn S

CO-CL-S

If they show it in the commercial, they are saying 'This is what this car can do!". You'll note that they often indicate that this was done on a closed road, so you won't do the same thing on a public highway. They don't say "you should not do this!". YMMV

Shawn S

See prior post above.

hughesne

My point(s) are not about the commercial. But we all know that is an aggressive car, i should be able to drive it aggressively, the clutch should be able to handle good aggressive driving. Obviously there are mixed views on this. Shawn, i hope your clutch doesnt go out driving how you always have since your old Legend. I believe there is a flaw in the clutch, we've all felt it when the car is cold, that is just a symptom and what happened to me is the final result.

Shawn S

Yea, I admit that wierd cold weather "grind" symptom worries me, but it’s warm now and she’s running great.

Shawn S

spdy0001

Correct many cars are capable of manythings, but somethings are harder on cars than others. The car is capable of doing redline drops all night long as was stated in his first thread about this. That is not usually not considered "aggessive driving" it is however called beating on the car. No where in that comericial did I see the guy do anything with the car that would hurt it. He simply went through the revs and shifted gears

hughesne

Shawn, im glad you at least admit that the "CWG" is a possible problem. My advice, continously have it checked out and documented.

spdy0001

The grind has nothing to do with the clutch. It is a problem with the syncros

hughesne

spdy0001,
thats how i drove the car, i also mentioned another flaw in the clutch/engine/tranny, with the rev limiter and shifting. For about 4-5 seconds i was hitting the rev limiter and shifting, dont do that. 4-5 seconds should not kill a clutch.

ChadT

It's a possibility that there is a flaw in the clutch. However, you openly admitted to "bouncing the engine off of the rev limiter and then shifting and continuing to bounce the engine off of the rev limiter with the clutch engaged." This makes your particular situation less than a valid study as stock clutches are not designed to withstand the kind of heat generated under those circumstances. I don't know of any commercials that show someone toasting the clutch in his car at 7k RPMs. There may be some kind of flaw with the clutch but in your case it may be hard to prove.

scalbert

What was the vehicle speed when this redlining and shifting was occuring?? Was the clutch engaged or disengaged??

hughesne

a problem with the syncro's would put excessive stress/wear on the clutch disc.

Slimey

Maybe I read things wrong, but I thought that in the thread that you described the burnt smell you also said that you were dumping the clutch while the engine was bouncing off the rev limiter.

I don't remember any clutch dumps in the commercial


As far as this not being a warranty item -- a worn clutch rarely is. It's an expendible part, like a windshield wiper or brake pads. Ultimately, the decision for the company to pay would be a so-called 'goodwill gesture'. I agree there is a role for goodwill and customer service, but I don't necessarily agree that this is a warranty repair (unless they find some other issue apart from wear).

And as far as Acura putting in underrated clutches in their car -- may be true but hard to believe. It sounds like 'dealer talking out of ass syndrome'. Acura/Honda is not new in the manual transmission business. Rumor even has it that our M/T was based on the NSX, whatever that means. Also, your situation is realtivly unique, and people on these boards are quick to report their car problems.

ChadT

How??

Shawn S

I try my best to stay off the rev-limiter.
I’ve probably only hit it three or four times since I’ve had the car and they were all the week after I got my headers.
Now I’m used to how fast she rev’s from 5-7K and I make sure I shift in time.

There’s a fine line between aggressive & abusive driving. I ride that line at times, but try not to cross it.

Shawn S

hughesne

speed was top of 1st gear, 30-35 mph. clutch was depressed (not pressed in at all).

scalbert

Try 1st gear with the blower; you come up to 7200 in a hurry...

Slimey

Extra firmness in a manual transmission shifting during frigid weather is not a flaw. It is normal. It is called, 'my transmission fluid is cold and the oil is more viscous'.

All M/T cars have this issue when the surrounding temps are frigid (I'm talking under 15-20F) and the car has been sitting.

hughesne

i also know there is a fine line between aggressive and abusive driving. I tend to not cross it either, i did 1 time and i cant see how that would have been the only problem. I did not do a clutch drop while hitting the rev-limiter. It was between 1st and 2nd gear shifts.

Either way, we dont have to continue this thread. ive mentioned the final warranty decision, etc. I'll let everyone if i find anything with the old clutch after being analyzed.

Also,
The NSX puts down 290HP, not much more than the CL. So the CL clutch being based on the NSX doesnt mean much in terms of handling power.

scalbert

So it was engaged, your foot was not pressing down on it??

Or you engaged it while your were banging off the rev limiter??

Or did the clutch need counseling for its depression??

Slimey

Hmm. My clutch makes me happy.

scalbert

I guess that is why I have never noticed this really. I don't beleive my car has been started cold below freezing.

hughesne

Steps taken:

Normal take off (2500) or so in 1st, took 1st about 1 rpm too far, went to shift as i was hitting rev-limiter, let off gas, press clutch, shift to 2nd, release clutch, hit gas, still at rev limiter, let off and reset to 3rd gear.

Slimey

Lucky.

I didn't think the cold stiffness issue was something to even comment on this past winter on the CL where my car saw 15 - 20F weather.

I went to University of Iowa for one of my degrees, and there's a couple weeks at the end of January/beginning of February where the temp did not get above 0F. A lot of the upper midwest is like that (ask the Illinois, Minnesota or Wisconsin folks). I had the joy of parking outside and it was a regular work out to get my car to shift into gear, even after a 10-15 minute warm up.

Slimey

Did your foot go to the floor between shifts, or just half way?

hughesne

I always go to the floor.

scalbert

Just a quick observation, normal take off is not 2500 revs. Even when stock I would spin quite a bit. 2500 revs on every take off would require quite a bit of manual clutch slipping to ease off the line.

One thing I don't understand is how it was at the rev limiter when you went to 2nd. If you hit the rev limiter and let off the gas, pressed in the clutch, shifted and engaged the clutch the revs would have been dropping. How did the rev limiter stay active for the five or so seconds??

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

That's what I don't understand either. I do almost the same thing sometimes except for the launch. All I do is peel the tires when I hit 2nd for a second. My rpm's once in 2nd are like at 4 or 5K after I shift. I hit the limiter a few times. I've never had a burning clutch smell.

ChadT

Seems like this could be a driver related issue............I used to drive like that too when I was a teenager. I didn't write it down and then try to deny it though.

mt6forlife

Yeah that really doesn't make and sense. Even if you floored it at redline with the clutch down, the revs WILL drop when you let out the clutch in the next higher gear. "shift gears too fast". huh? Maybe he hit the wrong gear?

Bluto

Hit 2nd hard, slipped/spun/burnt clutch, went to rev limiter while clutch was slipping?

lou_RENAMED

take some lessons in driving manual cars and that should take of the problem.....why are you pissed tell Acura you want the Comtpech clutch and lightweight flywheel that is what I would of done.

ChadT

I think what happened was the clutch was let out part way with the engine at redline. This overheated and glazed the clutch disc. Then he tried to shift into second gear going only 15 MPH with the engine still at redline. If the clutch were then babied for 500 miles or so it may have gotten a chance to recover and the glazing could have been worn off. With 2500 rpms used for normal launching a lot of clutch slippage would have occured.

Hughesne, you just need some practice and a little different technique. A clutch can only be slipped so much before it overheats. The CL a few design features (not flaws necessarily as they are built to be easy to drive not for drags) that are causing you problems. 1. It has a very heavy dual mass flywheel so once you have the RPMs up the clutch doesn't have much chance of engaging. 2. It has some kind of baffle to prevent the clutch from being released too quickly so when you slam it into another gear and dump the clutch with the engine at redline it just overheats and slips. 3. It has way more torque than your average Honda/Acura. I had a 1992 Prelude and it was also fairly torquey. I slipped the clutch like that a few times with that car. Whenever this happens you need to really take it easy on the clutch for a few hundred miles so you can wear the glaze off of it.

I haven't done a lot of launches in my CL 6 speed yet but you don't need a lot of RPMs to get the tires spinning. Try letting the clutch out quickly but smoothly and reduce your RPMs to around 1500-2000. (Temple of Vtec got their fastest 1/4 times by launching just above idle) Gradually give it gas as you are letting out the clutch. Don't floor the gas until your foot is completely off the clutch! Your never going to get a good launch in this car by using a lot of revs off the line. If you let the clutch out too slow with a lot of revs you will over heat it and the clutch will slip. BTDT many times trying to get a smooth launch with an AWD car.

Stay calm when you are launching. Trying to race someone is not a good way to perfect launch technique. Practice when there is no one around. Get that clutch engaged quickly or you will ruin it. Even using a lot of slippage for an easy smooth launch will glaze a clutch. If you smell clutch drive the car easy for a while. Give it a chance to recover.