SCTL-SS

We finally got the MAX boost pulley installed. The first attempt failed do to a disintegrated pulley. The second pulley was shipped and looked much better. Velocity Resources was able to work with it and complete the install. We had a terrible time in belt fitment - belts were either too big or too small(Goodyear gator backs, Napa, Autozone,etc...). We even tried Industrial lawn shops since they carry 4 ribbed belts but no luck there either. VR was able to work on one of the previous belts that we had ordered. They did a total of 5 WOT passes, I was not in the car at the time since I was at work but the report I got was that the car ran great and pulled hard. The car got 9lbs. of boost which is outstanding compared to 5.5. The 5 passes was all the belt could take and it flew apart. A new belt was ordered and put on. It works but it needs to be adjusted, this new one actually jumped one of the grooves as I checked it when I got home last night.
As for the fuel issue: there was enough room for adjustment on the FMU and fuel rail that we were able to increase fuel no issue as of yet.
Road review: The car is much more responsive then before. I was amazed that what used to be my max boost of 5.5lbs that boost level now comes in at part throttle. I did not do a WOT or get into V-Tech I'm sure I would of seen the 9lbs if I had. Because we are working with this belt little by little I'll have to wait before I can race it. The belt right now is so tight that the belt tensioner is more of a belt guide then a tensioner. Each day as I drive it I'll take it in and have it adjusted and tightened. The car reached 70-80 mph in no time at all it was very quick reaching those speeds at 4-5 lbs. of registered boost on the gauge and this was part throttle. I can't wait to see what it will be like at 9lbs(my teen age son reminded me that Cobras are running at 9lbs....HO YEA!!!)
Over all the car feels quick and responsive. The pulley itself has some design improvements that it could use. And there is also the issue of belts and belt fitment.
If we can get propper belt adjsustment I will be taking the car to Corvette Masters her in Orlando to do a Dyno air/fuel map. if that goes well I'll take the car to Orlando SpeedWorld to get some time runs. I'm planning to do all this on Friday(5-21) so if any of you guys are in Orl. and can come it would be great. It would be nice to run up against a stock Cobra(I did say stock right?) and see how the car fairs. The best the car has run was 13.68 at 82 degrees. At night it has been 10-15 degrees cooler then the 82 so hopefully times will be that much better.

From here we will be installing the intercooler and run maybe another 2-3 lbs. of boost for a total of 9lbs of intercooled boost. Scalberts boost pulley might be just the right amount of increased boost when the IC is installed. Maybe even incorporate the e-manage for programmable street/strip boost with race fuel.

Thats all for now, as I get more results I'll post them: street performance, driveabilty, dynos, 1/4 times etc...

Type S Lady

Wow, that sounds so cool. I'm excited for you.

types1967

how can you get 9psi of boost without knock?i would not do that unless you can pull timing as your asking for a recipe for disaster!!even running high octane the level of boost your running your going to destroy the motor without an ic and emanage.

pmptx

Pretty darned amazing. Congrats. Look forward to seeing the runtimes. Are you looking for <13.5?

N.O.6speed

wow, im impressed

SCTL-SS

That has been a concern, and we will continue monitor what is taking place with the boost as it is. The IC has been on order for almost 6 weeks so hopefully within the next week or so we can start on the install. I do have 100 octane unleaded that I purchased Just in case.

Are you looking for <13.5?

Eventually mid to high 12s

Chaptorial

Amazing.

Can't wait to see some times at the track while running 9lbs of boost.

Smitty

Wasn't Brad (Modaddict) seeing higher boost levels on his TL-S compared to our Cl-S's, but I do not think it was 9 lbs.

9lbs of boost spells disaster on stock internals....

Did you upgrade any of your internals? Example: pistons

scalbert

Without knowing EGTs or A/F ratio's, you guys are charging blind. I am a bit surprised that they (VR) would do this.

I have seen what the A/F ratio (I have a wideband in the car) goes to with more boost and although it may still be within reason at the lower revs, up high I am certain it is going lean.

Based on the CR, boost and efficiency of the blower you have now run an effective CR which is way higher than the octane rating being used. IMO, I would not be doing this without knowing the values. There are many aspects which are not being looked into or mentioned which is alarming. Assuming fuel pressure would be enough while not being aware that the integral bypass in the fuel pump is limiting it is cause for worry.

Is fuel pressure at least being watched?? Did they monitor any critical parameters such as EGT or A/F ratio??

As for the belt slipping, this is why I didn't use an even larger combo pulley. I wanted to retain the balance between the two pulleys by keeping the Comptech HBP and getting a smaller SC pulley. I now hit a peak of 8 PSI (intercooled though) and am using the original SC belt and it fits just fine. In addition, to run this 8 PSI, I had to extend the pulse width 15% through the e-Manage to maintain high 11's:1 A/F ratio.

scalbert

In cooler weather he would be picking up the remaining peices of the engine off the track with just the current set up.

SiGGy

Unless your talking about running lean, no.

The question is really how much power can the internals hold before they break?

Only relation to boost is how much power the engine is producing. Same thing with N20 setups.

I don't believe anyone really knows what the power limits are yet. (well maybe some honda techs)

Although testing 9lbs of boost without the proper fuel setup is crazy. That's a recipe for disaster...

types1967

like i said before are you crazy?scalbert is right and so am i there is no way your engine will make it!! if the temp drops and your at wot your going to blow the engine.you must be so lean that your way over the edge even with 100 octane.also where are you getting your intercooler from?steve hurry up im just looking out for you lower your boost asap unless you want to spend 4000 on just a block alone

Chaptorial

Well i just hope he makes it down the track before that happens.

Gotta see those times!

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

If I am correct, he is not running stock internals. I believe he has the upgraded 3.5 Block from VR. This is gonna get interesting.

SCTL-SS

There are 3-4 safeguards that have gave themselves to this move. Number 1 is VRs extensive experience with high compression boosted Honda engines and their assurance of a safe street/strip. I'm basically just driving the car(under their direction) just so we can get some stretch to the belt and that means normal driving and no boost until it is finally tuned-these are Dr.s orders. Secondly this application that they have performed is similar in CR, boost and manufacture(Honda).(The only real difference between my setup and the other V-tech boosted cars is the number of cylinders even with the same internals) Thirdly the air/fuel gauge has been very acurate in its reading even now. And lastly when I did get my last dyno at Corvette Masters the shop took note that my car was very rich even for a boosted car(and these folk build $20,000 to $45,000 supercharged corvette engines). They mentioned that the numbers were well below what they aim for in terms of air/fuel for a boosted car. So with this in mind we have been careful in our dealing with more boost and we are by no means through the testing tuning aspect of this project.

We will be looking at the FMU to do some fuel adjustments (discs, springs,etc..) Can the FMU accomodate this? Do we need bigger injectors? Questions that we will soon have answers for. Our only issue right now is to make sure the belt stays on. The fuel levels were good all the way through the RPM band but it leaned slightly at 7000 and at that prm it was at 9 lbs. and very quick. So at each icriment of RPM 4000,5000,6000 and so on it was good until we reached red line. (BTW intercooler has been on order and counting)The engine can handle the 9 lbs. our only question which many of you have asked is the fuel. If we can just keep the belt on we can learn and tune causiously. Even though the car belongs to me VR is really the one who is concerned and in control of it. It's like being in the hospital and I want to be discharged.
Thanks every one for the thoughtful concerns and questions I appriciate them, and in turn thought you guys would like the sort of minute by minute work and update on the project-really fun stuff. I'll keep you guys updated as it goes.

SCTL-SS

This I do not have....yet.

Smitty

Interesting.... FMU fuel management unit = Fuel Pressure regulator.. you using the Greddy system already?

scalbert

Whose wide band A/F monitor are you using??

IMO, similarities between Honda I4 engine and the J32 should not be assumed. Nor would I assume that just because you were rich before that with 50% more boost you are fine. If you have been or they did accurately monitoring A/F numbers (and not with a $50 gauge which taps the O2 sensor signal) and they looked fine then I feel better. But if not I would be hesitant to get into the throttle.

Myself and others have done more research on boosting these engines and have hard and correlated data to back it up. This was not based on assumptions but hard testing.

Also, something that they must not be aware of, the fuel pump used with the kit, although it can supply enough flow for the power, it cannot supply the flow at higher pressures. It has a built in bypass valve which opens between 85 - 90 PSI. Meaning that as flow demands increase the pressure cannot be sustained regardless of what you do with the FMU (FPR). You can try to jack up the pressure all you want but the pump will just dump excess limiting the supply to the injectors. This is why it is leaning out up top while being fine down low.

Also, you don't want to run 100+ PSI fuel pressure frequently. Although the lines can handle it, the fittings may not nor will the injectors enjoy it. You don't want a fitting or hose to come loose and spray fuel on a hot engine; it is a fire concern and bad practice. It would be better to lower the fuel pressure and supplement the fuel another way such as extending the pulse width.

Minch00

When are you heading to Orlando Speedworld? Where is Orlando Speedworld:o

I'd love to meet up, I'll get your runs on my video camera.....

SCTL-SS

thanks scalbert and others for the very valuable info and concern. What can i say, there is a tremendous knowledge base here. I'll share some of this with the folk at VR.

SCTL-SS

SpeedWorld is where Highway 50(Colonial Dr.) and SR 520 meet.
The soonest would be this Friday but more than likely it will be next Wednesday(if not later). I'll post a definate time here when I
know for sure.

EricL

I'm a bit concerned about the tensioner. They generally don't like to be "stressed."

Please keep an eye on it...

An intercooler would be certainly be a welcome addition!

I'd love to see some high boost dynos (intercooled too).

types1967

good luck with vr wish you the best but im going the scalbert way where it has been tested for a while now and i trust steve with my car.im going to be very happy with the intercooler from steve running 8psi and putting down 370-380whp i think thats plenty for an every day driver and the biggest thing is reliability i mean the blower on our cars was not designed to run past 8or 9psi where your at redline on the blower at 16500 rpm.you dont want to cross that threshold as you would have to go with an mp90unit from eaton.also im sure that were going to bigger squirters as we are already close to max duty cycle as steve said.but hope your motor survives a long life and enjoy it but watch those af ratios as all it takes is 1time and your screwed nice hole in the piston!!

SCTL-SS

types1967
I hear you, and there is no green light until we are comfortable with the A/F ratios. Wether that means injectors, e-manage, fuel pump, modified FMU, etc...
We've known up to this point that this is not negotiable...VR has made that clear to me.

scalbert

BTW, I see my calculations were about correct. Brad and I determined the needed size of the Max Boost Pulley to generate 8 - 9 PSI back last winter and supplied this to Payne. Glad to see our math was correct and they use it.

pimpscls

that is quite fast, i think your capable of 13.2 if the temp and conditions are right

darrinb

g/l with your project

what ever happened to the payne tech max boost pulley??

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

That is the pulley he is running

bryanz3.0cl

i dont know much about the jseries ( d/bseries guy at heart), but like them, the fmu will last you only so long, like everybodys been saying. with a stand alone and tuning however, youd be fine imo as long as your not abusing it, id be more worried about your auto than the motor. even the emanage is better than nothing at all, but i dont like them any more than a vafc hack for any type of FI. aem is making a unit for jimmyrecluse on v6p, you should talk to him. btw i dont know if you have already mentioned it, but are you still on stock injectors?

btw on 9psi and sticky tires, you should definately be trapping high enough to reach 12's.

scalbert

Are you sure you know what the e-Manage is?? It is in no way similar to the VAFC. It is directly controlling/extending the pulse width by taping the injector signals. It is also controlling the ignition timing by intercepting the ignition coil signals.

The VAFC just modifies the MAP signal.

scalbert

You failed to recognize that jimmyrecluse is also doing a transmission swap and going to the 6-Speed. This would allow for a swap to the EMS if/when it becomes available for the V6 engines. You cannot do this on a 5AT vehicle as the ECU still needs to control the transaxle.

sonor kid

What?

bryanz3.0cl

whats an emanage? that giant vafc thingy, right? yes i know what the emanage is, its a piggyback, just like the vafc with the exception of inj. control and timing as you already said but with the drawback of limiting the size injectors being able to use w/standard kit (i think, right?). my statement about not liking the afc or emng on any types of FI was more towards the afc hack, as i said using the emng is better than nothing-aka the "fmu". however, id rather have a full standalone unit for obvious reason, but that is not available for the jseries, yet. also, finding a tuner who is able to work w/ the aem ems or hondata unit is much easier than finding one willing to work with the greddy unit (or ones that actually know what theyre doing with it). so, to understand where im coming from, on a b18b-t t3/t04 (.57 .63) running 12-17psi on a stock block (everything & daily driven) which would you rather have; an emng or full standalone?...project car, 2 years in the making ...

sonor kid-what?, what?

bryanz3.0cl

hes had the swap for about a year now, used the haltech, but is switching to a full standalone, hmmmmm .

scalbert

I see where you are coming from and I also feel a stand alone system would perform better. But at about $1500 for the unit (Electromotive, AEM EMS, etc), the time to install it and then to tune it would not provide enough greater benefit over the e-Manage.

Now, if the engine was rebuilt and destine to make some serious power the stand alone would shine. But for the power levels we are working in and limited to with the blower the e-Manage provides everything we need.

As for injector sizing, it will handle whatever size you want to try. However, it is recommended to keep it within 50% of the stock size.

scalbert

This precludes (at least reasonably) the use of the stand alone system on the 5AT. The line pressure and shift solenoids need to be controlled still and no stand alone is currently doing that. This would require the factory ECU to remain to control the transmission while working in conjunction with a stand alone and not going into limp mod due to something unusual like no ignition coil or injector feedback.

Point being, the suggestion to look at the stand alone is invalid due to the thread started having a 5AT.

SCTL-SS

I'll have to wait on the full tune of the vehicle and at this point it is quite tedious just in the effort of getting the belt to stay on. There is not a belt out there that is the perect fit for this pulley.

When tuning is complete and I/C installed 13.2 and better should be attained.

ModAddict

darrinb

are your boost #'s going down in the vtec range?? due to the belt slipping

MtBikR

Steve what S/C pulley are you using with your comptech HPB to get 8psi with the original belt?

Oh btw bryanz3.0cl, SCTL-SS is running a stage III VR tranny, I don't think you need to worry more about his auto than his motor