wheelmanII

2003 cl 6-speed manual----had a new clutch put in still a chatter, told by dealer it was a charactistic of the car, test drove a second 6 speed cl and that also had a 3rd gear chatter (as you shift from 2nd to 3rd or 4th down to 3rd) as the clutch is being released. my local service writer is calling on local acura rep and this might blow up as something major-----maybe recall???

anyone else have a chatter in 3rd gear?
or what it might be, no diagnosis ----cant be the clutch I have a new one and 2 others in town also have the same mysteries of a 3rd gear chatter
please respond if you know aything on this problem

wheelmanII

rbf351

i've never noticed a 3rd gear chatter on mine

Slimey

Never noticed any chatter, third or otherwise.

Many have posted a stumble or irregularity when shifting into second, especially when the car is cold. I don't have this either.

GreenMonster

Same here. No chatter.

The trouble with shifting into second (even when it's 12 degrees out) seems to have gone away on my 6spd (only did it for first winter during "break in").

wheelmanII

example::
driving up to a red light at 40 mph
shift into neutral and procede rolling as the light was to turn green
rolling in neutral at 30 mph (light turns green) shift into 3rd gear
-----let the clutch catch half way as you hit the gas (moderately)---
you should get a vibration enough to see if your cars got it to....

factory clutch, no aftermarket all bone stock 2003 CL-S 6 speed manual
noticed it at 32k---

m&b6speed

i get that chatter sometimes when shifting to 2rd from 3nd, almost feels like the wheels are going to break loose. i cant pinpoint when it happens (cold, hot, wet etc..) but its not too often. i just thought that maybe it was the way i was driving sometimes?! how many miles do you have on your 6 speed that you needed a new clutch? does the chatter happen all the time. keep me updated cause if there is a problem, i have it too

wheelmanII

i had 32k miles when I first noticed it..... reason for the new clutch the acura dealership thought it was a machining error on one of the clutch plates and covered it under warranty, but after the new clutch nothing changed and the chatter stayed.

bullaculla

Never noticed. i'll check it out.

Joe5.0

My clutch has been smooth from day one, and I have no problems with 2nd gear even in the cold. Sure there is a bit more effort needed when its 10* out, but as soon as the tranny fluid warms up it is 100% smooth.

Sorry to hear about the problem.

NSX-Tuner

Never noticed any chatter in any gear and I've got 40k miles on my 6MT clutch. What RPM do you shift at in each gear? If your RPM is too low in any gear, you will get an engine vibration - not a chatter. Also, do you slip the clutch a lot? This could lead to a burnt clutch and/or a scorched flywheel which might cause clutch chatter. Also, if you had the clutch replaced and the flywheel wasn't resurfaced this could cause clutch chatter.

anothercls

I only notice the slight difficulty in shifting from 1st-2nd when it is cold. I did recently start to find it harder to shift into 6th from 5th, but not a major issue. I have a little over 70k miles right now.

NSX-Tuner

It's normal for a MT to have shifts get a little harder to make during cold weather. But once tranny oil get warmed up, it should start shifting smoother.

6speedctrlfreak

Oh yeah I get this chatter also - seems like it much worse in the colder ambient temps . (even after car has fully warmed up....)
when it happens sometimes I think "wow...I missed a shift that bad ??? " but I know I didnt shift incorrectly (much different than when you miss a shift slightly and you hear that typical grinded-gears sound)

I have posted about this on and off since I got the car on this board and it seems like some of us have it and some don't.

NSX-Tuner

From my experience with older MT's, clutch chatter was caused by either:

• Burnt Clutch
• Scourched Flywheel
• Broken Presure Plate
• Oil on the Clutch disk

wheelmanII

mine still does it- drove a second cl-s 6MT and that also does it.
(a third car) customer came into acura dealership and his also does it.
thats 3 for 3 in minnesota

my gut feeling is possible transmission, computer of some kind that rates engine speed and idle, of part of limited-slip differential

NSX-Tuner

Wow, I guess I've been lucky so far. Sorry to hear you've still got the problem after replacing both the clutch and flywheel.

If you don't mind, can you describe exactly how to reproduce the chatter (clutch and gas peddle foot action, RPMs, etc... the more detail the better)? This thread didn't seem to go into too much detail. I'd like to see if I've got the problem too and/or if it's related to driving style.

thanks...

m&b6speed

i experienced it under normal driving/shifting/rpm range. when i do experience it, if i shift like i'm trying to get the most out of the car, it doesnt happen. just under normal driving at random times.

if it didn't happen already cls6sp03 you probably don't have it. it almost feels like wheel hop, but cant be at the low speeds i experience it at

wheelmanII

should do it (get a vibration) under normal driving conditions
drive lightly spirited
dont over do it you could do major clutch damage
just be aware of it around 3rd gear-

mine makes the dash seem like it could come undone sometimes

others are just a light tremor (not every shift) but i can make it do it on command it i want
but driving real hard or grandma style it has never done the vibration

wheelmanII
by the way- thanks to everyone so far that has responded!

Joe5.0

I have never heard about what you ar describing wheelman, are you 100% sure its not operator error? Not implying that, but it seems very unlikely that 3 of 3 cars all exhibit this severe clutch chatter when I dont recall ever reading about it on here.

My clutch sometimes grabs strangely after I roll out of the driveway after it sat overnight. Condensation can form overnight on the flywheel, just like it does on the brake rotors. This can cause a harsh clutch engagement until the rust is removed by the disc material.

NSX-Tuner

Does this chatter only occur when letting out the clutch while at the same time applying some gas peddle? Off the line? Shifting between 2nd and 3rd? Also, does this chatter still occur after the clutch has been fully engaged?

Zapata

i know what wheelman is talking about. Happens when it's cold, rpms are too low and get sloppy with the shifting. Not so much in 3rd....but it does happen from time to time.

NSX-Tuner

I think what you are describing has nothing to do with clutch chatter. If I let out the clutch and let the RPM drop too low, I get an engine vibration every time. Heck, I get this on my pickup truck too if I don't keep the RPMs up. However, if I feather the clutch and gas in a way to maintain a sufficient RPM while minimizing clutch slippage, I'll get a smooth roll off every time. But if I get sloppy (which is easy to do with the CLS 6MT), I get that vibration (not chatter) too.

When up shifting between gears, I always wait for the RPM and road speed to match as closely as possible before fully engaging the clutch. I never, slip the clutch while up shifting and always shift at a sufficient RPM to avoid engine vibration. Engine vibration usually occurs just under 1500 RPM under load.

GreenMonster

Oh, dash squeaks... I got those, but I wouldn't call it clatter... My 6spd this morning was squeaking more then usual (from the passenger side dash - near the door) 'cause it was only 8 degrees out. Every car is going to have some level of movement/flex when the clutch is engaged.

GreenMonster

Oh, dash squeaks... I got those, but I wouldn't call it clatter... My 6spd this morning was squeaking more then usual (from the passenger side dash - near the door) 'cause it was only 8 degrees out. Every car is going to have some level of movement/flex/weight transfer when the clutch is engaged.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

It just amazes me how some dealers are so quick to do stuff like this.

No chatter on mine.

GreenMonster

I just came back from lunch, and I was "playing" around a little. I got chatter in 1st gear, but I think it was a combination of not enough gas (accelerator input) and the fact that's it's 10 degrees out...

123456SPEED

What is chatter? Can you hear it with the windows closed? I've had two 6 speeds, and never noticed chatter. In cold weather shifts to 2 gears 9 I think it was 1 and 3) would be rougher than normal til warmup on the first car. Current 6 speed does not do it near as much. No noises, shutters, grinds that I can tell. good luck.
Surprised the dealer did anything free concerning shifting and/or the clutch.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

What exactly do you mean by chatter? Do you mean the gears are grinding? Or that there is a shudder from the engine bay? or do you mean that their is a weird vibration?

I've got a little bit of vibration when i down/up shift to 3rd gear as well ever since I bought the car.

The amout is different depending on how quickly/smoothly I shift.

NSX-Tuner

CORRECTION, I meant 750 RPM, not 1500 RPM... I just verified this.

NSX-Tuner

I would describe it more like an engine shutter, than a chatter on my car when I let the RPMs don't too low (below 750 RPM).

NSX-Tuner

I would describe it more like an engine shutter, than a chatter on my car when I let the RPMs down too low (below 750 RPM).

wheelmanII

rpms are sufficient when mine and the others did it it was at least 2500 rpm and a smooth release
the vibration feels like it comes from clutch through the engine (loose motor mounts-but its not-example)
it can happen at any given time when cold, after a long day driving and it seems like frequency of clutching can make it streaky- more gears than third 1,2,3, and sometimes 4th and you cant get around it.

in driving a clutch i have over 200kin miles on 3 different cars and have never burnt one out or had a glitch like this

wheelmanII

NSX-Tuner

Does this vibration (chatter/shutter) occur during the release of the clutch or after clutch has been fully engaged?

wheelmanII

only during release
and when it happens is the last half of the release (not the begining of the release)
once engaged- no problems

NSX-Tuner

Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you guys are giving too much gas pedal during release of the clutch; either off the line or between up-shifts.

I've been driving MTs for over 35 years and only have experienced this type of clatter/shutter if I'm driving car incorrectly or had a bad clutch, pressure plate and/or flywheel.

Here's how I drive a MT:

• Off the line (daily driving): I let out the clutch easily until car starts to roll and continue to do this without applying any gas until RPM starts to drop too low. I only add a very slight amount of gas to just bring up the RPM slightly until clutch is fully engaged. Then and only then do I give it more gas to accelerate as needed. I always try to minimize slipping the clutch; especially while giving it gas. If I follow the above example, I've never experienced the chatter people have described here on my CLS 6MT.
• Up Shifting: I never apply any gas while up shifting until clutch has been fully engaged. In addition, because of the dual-mass clutch/flywheel the RPMs tend to rise slightly when clutch is depressed during up-shifting. I time my up-shifting and clutch engagement to where the is no clutch slippage during clutch engagement. In other words, I always try to match clutch speed (road speed) to flywheel speed (engine speed) during the clutch engagement.

Driving stick is an art, some people are masters at it and others only get by. I'm somewhere in between because I only get prefect roll-offs, up-shifts and down-shifts about 90% of the time.

Zapata

right right.....agreed only relaying when i feel or hear chatter or shudders.

NSX-Tuner

I was a bit terse.

I'm hoping that all this chatter or shudder stuff has all to do with driving style and not a clutch, flywheel and motor-mount problem. Otherwise, I might get bit by the same problem sooner or later. You guys may have a real problem here. It will be interesting to see what becomes of this problem a number of you are experiencing.

wheelmanII

I think it has MORE to do with a driving style but a design flaw somewhere in drive trian
a performance car should not have an issue in chattering with so any cars.

wheelmanII

more----i mean LESS to do with driving style and MORE with a mecanical issue

Joe5.0

I think some people are confusing engine bogging with clutch chatter. I have NEVER had any chatter in my CL-S, and I know what chatter is. My mustang will chatter if the disc gets hot and I try to slip the clutch. This only happens at the drag strip.

I wouldnt say lots of people are having this problem, just a few people that have noticed it in multiple cars. That leaves too much possibility for operator error, imo.

I follow cls6s' exact launching style, altho I am not patient enough to rev match every upshift. I let the syncros do their job on upshifts and while not quite as smooth as a rev matched upshift it is much quicker and causes the clutch no harm. I am pretty used to the clutch and it is rare that I bog the engine off the line, but it does happen every once it awhile. Usually I get complacent and just dont feed enough revs and let the clutch out too quickly. Its a much more difficult car to launch smoothly without working the clutch than most cars due to the lack of low end tq & a short clutch travel.