Beltfed

No they don't, my Viper is 2 years old and has "never" been in for a problem.....not to mention the interior doesn't rattle. My Acura on the other hand, rattles more than ANY car I have ever owned.

Also had a 99 Vette, which was fine....no big issues at all.

I also had a 95 GC V8, no problems.

Are American cars as reliable and trouble free as Japanese cars, definitely not. But are they complete and utter crap? Not in the least bit.

Crazy Bimmer

I had a sebring convertible that was leased and i beat the shit out of... and not once went into the shop.

I think people bash on domestics cuz everyone else does. Weak if you ask me. Dont follow the trends. :P

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

If the big 3 could build a car comparable to to CL S or Infinities new offerings for around 32 to 35k...you might have a valid point. Comparing a Viper or a Corvette(Keeping in mind that both these cars are built at factories specifically designed for that car model) to an Acura CL S is hardly fair considering the price difference. As far as the Sebring post...poor, poor resale value, fit and finish no where near an Acura product...and its a DODGE!...YUCK! Sorry but we must agree to disagree on this one guys...Have a good day!

Rock Dog

If the Sebring has poor, poor resale value. What do you call the CL's?

Did you know that in the last J.D. Powers quality rating (J.D. is used by the auto industry almost exclusively to gauge their own progress. I feel it leaves a little to be desired, and has a few flaws in it's testing and research) but none the less, it is the current benchmark. Anyway in the last full survey Honda scored 4 points below Chrysler in initial quality for passenger cars?

Rock Dog

As much as I hate to say it. He's right, I whole heartedly agree. Sheep and Hypocrites make me nuts. Are the domestics on par with Toyota NO!!! Have they made great strides. Absolutely. The biggest problem the Domestics still face is their shitty dealer networks. That's where the imports really make their bones.

But Like I said Honda has dropped in recent years, while Chrysler has picked up it's game. Even to the point that Chrysler BEAT Honda in the most recent passenger car quality surveys.

Another Shock, or maybe not. Do you think MB is the creme' de' la creme? NOT! The M-Class has scored very poorly over the years, even falling below the Jeep Grand Cherokee. The S-Class has taken a bit hit in quality as well. MB has got a quality problem right now, and they are not moving fast enough to fix it. The M-Class has been far below the MB standard since it came out. Does it have to do with where it's built? Who knows, it is built here. But by Non-Union labor. And a lot of the complaints have come from design element flaws, cheap components, poor reliability. Those are not assembly issues.

Red Rider

Good points, American car companies are making better products and trying to compete. This Dodge is proof that they have targeted the WRX etc. and may have a winner.

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

According to CHASE BANK Residual Values after 3 years...Sebring
(Loaded) 42%
CL TYPE S 54%

Kelly Blue Book Values are roughly the same percentile.
And what is initial quality??? Buick Le Sabre got top honors last year in JD Powers Intial Quality(Another JUNK car)...but not one Chrysler or Buick product was in Car and Drivers "TOP TEN" 2
Honda products made the list...
Top Honors this year...a Japanese car... an Infinity

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

Ok you win...I will drive the Mercedes and You can drive the JEEP GRAN CHEROKEE...keeping in mind they are both built by Daimler -Chrysler.

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

MORE FACTS...DO MORE RESEARCH...
http://www.nhtsa.com/NCAP/Cars/1932.html

Red Rider

It will be tougher and tougher in the future to call cars American, with Chrysler and Mercedes sharing platforms and parts, Ford is building Fords on Volvo platforms and GM is bringing back the GTO on the Australian Holden platform etc, etc.

Rock Dog

You made it sound like the Sebring lost a lot of value, whereas the Acura's did not. Did I say that the Acura lost as much or more? NO! I just said that, (and you can ask the guys here who have sold or traded theirs in) That Acura has taken a big hit in residule value as well. Especially recently. Their residules have been dropping steadily for the past years. Many here have been really suprised to see what they can get for the car 2 or 3 years later. Especially when they were used to a better ratio with their previous Acura.

You missed the point. Car and Driver, Motor Trend and any other magazine or newspaper "rating" means nothing to the automakers. Only to the sheep. Is Car of the Year a nice award? Yes! It helps sell cars, to the sheep, because they think it actually means something. But when it comes down to it. All those things are worthless, and hold no merit, up against the J.D. Powers surveys. Car and Driver Ten Best!

J.D. Powers does research, polls if you will, of owners of all vehicles. The automakers pay a large chunk of change for the J.D. Powers reports. All of them! J.D. Powers does a number of different research pols, at a couple of different time intervals.

Initial quality is just one of the surveys. Basically they poll owners of new cars at the 90 day mark. Initial Quality! Out of the box, how many problems have you had with your car? What were they? and so on... (Most of us would say things like the sunroof rattle, reardeck rattle, paint chips, or misaligned body parts.) They tally all this information, and put it into catagories. Light Truck, Mini-Van, Compact SUV, MidSize sedan and so on. They do a report for vehicle segments, as well as vehicle lines. 4 door compact sedans. And then say all passenger cars.

As I said Mercedes S-Class, and M-Class have been losing ground steadily over the past few years. So has some of the imports. Honda scored lower than Chrysler in the passenger car segement, which is tallying the results of all passenger cars from each manufacturer.

Buick has been one of the true bright spots in domestic manufacturing. They've lost a little ground as of late, mostly due to a lot of shuffiling in the executive ranks at GM, and the fact that they, like everyone else in the U.S. has had to cut costs, and downsize with the economy.

But a couple years back, and for like 3-5 years in a row. Buick was in the top five with Lexus, BMW and others. Hell one year they were #3. How does that make it a "Junk Car?" Because you don't like the way it looks, or the options. It's far from a "Junk Car." Buick is one of the top brands globally when it comes to quality and reliability.


{Needed one Cranial/Rectal Extraction}

Rock Dog

Maybe you should read his statement again. He said "Offset Frontal Crash" twisted the frame. Not head on or side.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong. I'm just saying that you should read what was written more clearly, before coming back with your CAPS-LOCK in a bunch.

Rock Dog

There is no winning or losing. Just education.

My wifes JGC LTD V8 is great. 13,000 miles, not one issue. No rattles, no defects. Great materials, great construction. And a buttload of options for the money. It does have some driveline noise I could do without. And the transmission could be a little better. But overall, after 12,000 miles. It's great.

Our '99 Laredo had a few more issues. But it was the first year of a redesign. Our 96 Laredo was fantastic as well.

And the M-Class and Jeep Grand Cherokee (for the moment anyway) have absolutely nothing in common. Not one part, not one process, not one engineer.

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

you are CORRECT!!! You do require a cranial/rectal extraction...
Lets agree to disagree...After owning and racing Honda products since 1988...I to have seen tremendous strides in Japanease engineering. Different engines, state of the art design elements etc. My god dont take it personally...I just think the BIG 3's cars stink...and if you think that all automotive magazines are for sheep...well count me in...bahhhhhhh<Sheep call! JD Power is a viable source for info...what about Consumer Reports...I suppose there in it with the Japanese carmakers (Payola???) Consumer reports CONSTATLY LISTS Honda and Toyota as top quality manufacturers...Listen I am done...Enjoy your Jeep...and your CL and rest in the fact that my next car will be either Japanese or German...mmmm...m3...thats a car!
Oh yea...when was the last time you saw a Chrysler or a Buick win a Cart or F1 race, Ford has done it...but only with Cosworth Engineering.

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

What are you my mother..when I can use caps or not...hows this...BLOW ME!

Was presenting facts...he gave some "Here-say" statement...

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

Again, I will take the Benz...you drive the lumpy JEEP!
And they do have something in common...same parent company...so nix the absolutely comment.

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

"Word on the Street"!!??!!?? what is this a bad episode of Starksy and Hutch?

Rock Dog

ARGH! WHAT THE FUCK DOES F1 or CART have to do with quality and reliability, foreign or domestic, production automotive products? It's like debating a carrot. :shakehd: And racing Honda products is not a reason to call the NEON junk.

I don't take it personally. I just thought you needed all of the facts before you go making gross mis-generalizations. I said nothing about all automotive magazines being for sheep. I said the awards were. I subscribe to 3 myself, and have been for years. But Car and Driver Ten Best has NOTHING to do with quality and reliability.

Consumer Reports! YES! and another one of my subscriptions. Since 1987. And they too, show that some of the domestics are gaining ground, while some of the imports are faultering. Although it's a little harder with Consumers Union because 5 circles doesn't give a real accurate picture. I don't care if you hate domestic products. Just make sure your facts are straight. There's nothing wrong with being a consumer without original thought, or going through life with blinders on. But don't use it as fodder for a debate. If your going to hate something or someone, DO IT! Just make sure your clear about the fact that you don't have a really good reason for it!

Rock Dog

No! Because you are absolutely wrong! There is nothing, not one iato of similarity in the 2 products. Parent company or not. The 2 vehicles in question are as far apart today, engineering, manufacturing, marketing and service. as they were before the merger. Not one person, working on either vehicle, has anything to do with the other.

Rock Dog

No here-say. He stated, exactly, offset front end collision. You did not read it through, or just jumped on a response with out all the data. Per usual.

Blow What?

eclipse23

astro

keep it on topic if you want to argue like a schoolgirl some more baddass....

DeezNutz

There's some good entertainment value to this thread!

I've asked this question in the past, and have always got the same answer from my friends:

Q: Why don't domestic car makers put cars in the luxury sport coupe segment?
A: Because they can't.

I'm not sure if the answer is true or not (any more), but they certainly don't try. I've *wanted* to buy an american car for many years now, but they simply don't make a good enough sport coupe for me to look yet. That'll be a real barometer for how far they've come along IMO.

I really hope this Dodge starts a trend in the next year that brings a bunch of high-HP cars to the road for cheap. Maybe a stock Civic will jump on the streets with 200+ HP soon.

Later

Python2121

Is this a Neon fourm? oh yeah, it is. Anyway, following the conversation, i think that japenese cars just use better parts then american parts. I got my CL a few weeks ago and it was that or a grand prix gtp. I shook the car down and the 3.0 just felt more solid. Something that was "tight like my bmw" as my dad described it. The leather, the knobs, the steering wheel all FELT better, higher quality in the 3.0 then the GTP. Im sure if you overmaintain either of the cars they will work like they were new 5+ years from now, and if treated like crap would not. Everyones going to have sob or success stories. But to me, i doubt the NEON/American cars will FEEL the same. (there are exceptions i will admit that i will give like caddy/high end)

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

Finally...someone who knows QUALITY when he sees it!!!
Props to you dude...and have fun with the CL!

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

Blow me punk..."Astroglide"...lol

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

Thanks MOM!

lrutt

I just love all this talk about how great the Japanese cars are vs the domestics, then I go read the other posts about how our cars rattle like crap and the shit transmissions we have. I know my Ford F150 Harley Davidson Special gets a hell of a lot more looks than the CL, has been totally reliable to 22k, and does not rattle. Can't say that for any other car I've owned, except a Dodge Dakota once.

1ownedbya-clnotsobaddasscls

I love this stuff!!!! LMAO....winding people up is fun!!!! LMAO!:whocares:

Rock Dog

Oh no! You didn't... :sqnteek:

moforose3.0

Who cares, its still a neon

Rock Dog

You've wound up no one. You haven't got the chops. Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings have you made one valid point to support your ill-informed rhetoric. As a final resort, like all those who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about on a given subject, you resort to name-calling.

Pathetic.

Continue… I look forward to slapping you around some more. :P

Beltfed

I would start thinking about a new screen name.

astro

I thought of you, do you guys like it?

cl-driver

Beltfed

Its good, has a nice ring to it

eclipse23

I say we get a "OWNED BY ASTROBOY CARE OF ACURA-CL.COM"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Pappy

Yeah, Well, it might be fast, but I bet it looks like shit on the inside.

Beltfed

At its price point, the interior is more than fine......

DISRUPTV

i actually like the way the interior looks, sure the materials may not be all that, but I think the interior of this car looks better than the wrx



this neon would make one hell of a daily beater