L.I track day part 2
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From: NYC
Originally posted by vinarnold
i need some srious launching help with the tl, i tried every vreacking laungh possible yesterday and nothing lower than a 15 flat. iwas so fcking pissed ask ant7701 and ga2000. only good thing was 2 perfect reaction times and one near perfect when racing ant that was a good race i fcked up by shifting in to netural, and ant caught up and beat me by a hair....still had fun but so pissed right now. i did not even want to drive my car out of shame....
i need some srious launching help with the tl, i tried every vreacking laungh possible yesterday and nothing lower than a 15 flat. iwas so fcking pissed ask ant7701 and ga2000. only good thing was 2 perfect reaction times and one near perfect when racing ant that was a good race i fcked up by shifting in to netural, and ant caught up and beat me by a hair....still had fun but so pissed right now. i did not even want to drive my car out of shame....
whats wrong with the new TL auto ??? is it the tires ?? does it bogg down ??? did you clean out the trunk from spare ??
that just seems unbelievable that the cl-s is faster than the new 04' tl
did ga2000 race it for you ??
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: long island
ga2000 got a 14.8 2 weeks ago, i think that the tires grab so quick theirs is no wheel spin even on the street. but i havent lost a race on the street and i went up with a cls and i beat him... so i cant figure out this car maybe i need more time....
im back
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From: New York
vin i think you need to launch that bad boy like the CL....if you really wanna beat on it.....you gotta do a lotta playing with the clutch at the launch can't dump it anywhere or else you hop and spin. Try makin the clutch smell
Sweet as Gold
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,869
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From: NY
naw Rob...it's an auto. No clutch 
He's pretty much tried everything but i dunno...he just can't get it. I got a 14.9 out of it and ga2000 got a 14.8 out of it. It just bogs down way too much on the launch. The only way to get the 14.8and14.9 was to literally just smash the pedal...he would spin his tires maybe one revolution and then take off...but because he doesn't spin it's like starting at 1000rpm when it grips so his car has to climb thru the rpm band alot. On the street the thing hauls ass...I just think he needs lighter wheels or smaller tires for the track.
He's pretty much tried everything but i dunno...he just can't get it. I got a 14.9 out of it and ga2000 got a 14.8 out of it. It just bogs down way too much on the launch. The only way to get the 14.8and14.9 was to literally just smash the pedal...he would spin his tires maybe one revolution and then take off...but because he doesn't spin it's like starting at 1000rpm when it grips so his car has to climb thru the rpm band alot. On the street the thing hauls ass...I just think he needs lighter wheels or smaller tires for the track.
Thread Starter
1/4 14.4 at 95
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: long island ny
this is from the temple of vtec..dragstrip Results: 5AT Time Slip (Score: 1, Normal) 02-10-2004 13:56
Okay, enough suspense - I was planning to post this sooner but I've been pretty busy the last week. Hopefully the incar video I shot came out alright - between the NSX, TL 6MT, Civic Si FP, and now the TL 5AT I have miles of tape footage to sift through and edit.
anyhow, here's the best slip of Sunday:
60': 2.279
330': 6.258
1/8: 9.48 @ 76.18
1/4: 14.620 @ 96.03*
This car has another one or two tenths left in it if would A) launch a little harder (more stall speed) and B) if the tranny would allow an upshift at the limiter in 1st gear. Unlike the TL Type S, you could leave the line at full throttle and not have to worry about smoking the tires out of the hole. Also, it kept upshifting at around 6300 rpms. Unfortunately I didn't try a full automatic run (I was using sportshift) but as I discovered yesterday it might have helped, as full auto mode seems to upshift to 2nd at a slightly higher rpm than it will allow in sportshift. That's just freaky to me...
It's obvious the car was engineered for a more relaxed and refined take-off than last year's Type S. The best 0-60 time I recorded was a 6.35, but the best of the rest were in the 6.4 range. While possibly a little softer 0-60, this car is a lot quicker than the TL-S everywhere else, particularly on the roll. In our TL-S I always sensed a lot of frictional losses - this '04 feels slicker than a silicon smoothie.
I used two runs on the strip to perform my interval testing, and due to a fat finger I only got one run with a useful set of numbers, and it wasn't a particularly clean run (for some reason there was more wheelspin than the other runs). Unfortunately I waited until the last two runs of the day to perform the interval testing...
Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced these figures are really accurate (they're from an AP-22). Until we can afford some sort of optical or GPS-assisted equipment, it's the best we can do (I don't think the vericom will spit out interval figures) With that disclaimer, here they are:
Okay, enough suspense - I was planning to post this sooner but I've been pretty busy the last week. Hopefully the incar video I shot came out alright - between the NSX, TL 6MT, Civic Si FP, and now the TL 5AT I have miles of tape footage to sift through and edit.
anyhow, here's the best slip of Sunday:
60': 2.279
330': 6.258
1/8: 9.48 @ 76.18
1/4: 14.620 @ 96.03*
This car has another one or two tenths left in it if would A) launch a little harder (more stall speed) and B) if the tranny would allow an upshift at the limiter in 1st gear. Unlike the TL Type S, you could leave the line at full throttle and not have to worry about smoking the tires out of the hole. Also, it kept upshifting at around 6300 rpms. Unfortunately I didn't try a full automatic run (I was using sportshift) but as I discovered yesterday it might have helped, as full auto mode seems to upshift to 2nd at a slightly higher rpm than it will allow in sportshift. That's just freaky to me...
It's obvious the car was engineered for a more relaxed and refined take-off than last year's Type S. The best 0-60 time I recorded was a 6.35, but the best of the rest were in the 6.4 range. While possibly a little softer 0-60, this car is a lot quicker than the TL-S everywhere else, particularly on the roll. In our TL-S I always sensed a lot of frictional losses - this '04 feels slicker than a silicon smoothie.
I used two runs on the strip to perform my interval testing, and due to a fat finger I only got one run with a useful set of numbers, and it wasn't a particularly clean run (for some reason there was more wheelspin than the other runs). Unfortunately I waited until the last two runs of the day to perform the interval testing...
Additionally, I'm not 100% convinced these figures are really accurate (they're from an AP-22). Until we can afford some sort of optical or GPS-assisted equipment, it's the best we can do (I don't think the vericom will spit out interval figures) With that disclaimer, here they are:
Thread Starter
1/4 14.4 at 95
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: long island ny
this is for u vin. i dont know if itll work but u can try it
Re: Dragstrip Results: 5AT Time Slip (Score: 1, Normal) 02-10-2004 15:21
nope - it hardly ever works that way on a Honda. Just chuggers like Toyotas and Veedubs. You NEVER want to shift ahead of your power peak (on the dyno that's about 6500 rpms) and this car hardly falls off after that, except right at the very top where it pulls back a bit of timing (in third gear, on a stationary dyno). I doubt that happens on the road, especially in 1st gear when the motor winds so quickly through the gear. In higher gears you have a LOT of airflow over the radiator and very stable coolant temps, so I'd be very surprised if the timing gets backed off in cool street conditions.
anyhow, IDEALLY, you'd pick a shift point that puts you at the same point in terms of HP before the peak. For a crude example, imagine you have 200hp at 5000 rpm. At 4000 rpm you have 170hp and at 6000 you also have 170hp. Assuming your gearing allows it, you would shift at 6000 and you'd hit the next gear at 4000 rpms.
in the case of the TL, by shifting at 6300 rpms (~210hp), you drop to roughly 3800 rpms, where you're putting about 135hp to the wheels. As you can see on the dyno plot the limiter kicked in at about 7100 rpms. Assuming the transmission executes an upshift just before the limiter, you'd be making around 205hp (again assuming there's no timing pullback) and drop back to about 4300 rpm, which is about 155-160whp.
also, one thing i didn't note is that by manually shifting from 2nd to 3rd i consistently gained more than a tenth. This may sound confusing, but I started out using the strategy that worked best on our TL-S, which was to launch in sportshift and allow the transmission to make the shift from 1st to 2nd for you, because it would always pull off a perfectly crisp redline shift. Then I'd bump it over to normal drive mode for the 2-3 and upper shifts because it's really difficult to time the 2-3 upshift without hitting the limiter in sportshift mode. In D, it would execute a flawless shift right near the limiter. For some reason in "D" it was more conservative for the 1-2 shift than in sportshift. I (incorrectly) assumed the '04 would be similar, but it was actually the opposite. My first run was a 14.8, then a few more 14.8s, a 14.9, a 15.000 and then i finally decided to cool the car for about 5 minutes and then i decided to leave it in sportshift. My first try was a 14.7. while it shifted from 2nd to 3rd later than the normal programming does, it was still well short of the redline. The next run, i actually clipped the limiter briefly and still got a 14.68. My other runs in the 14.6 range were all obtained shifting as close to the limiter as possible (on the 2-3 shift)
nope - it hardly ever works that way on a Honda. Just chuggers like Toyotas and Veedubs. You NEVER want to shift ahead of your power peak (on the dyno that's about 6500 rpms) and this car hardly falls off after that, except right at the very top where it pulls back a bit of timing (in third gear, on a stationary dyno). I doubt that happens on the road, especially in 1st gear when the motor winds so quickly through the gear. In higher gears you have a LOT of airflow over the radiator and very stable coolant temps, so I'd be very surprised if the timing gets backed off in cool street conditions.
anyhow, IDEALLY, you'd pick a shift point that puts you at the same point in terms of HP before the peak. For a crude example, imagine you have 200hp at 5000 rpm. At 4000 rpm you have 170hp and at 6000 you also have 170hp. Assuming your gearing allows it, you would shift at 6000 and you'd hit the next gear at 4000 rpms.
in the case of the TL, by shifting at 6300 rpms (~210hp), you drop to roughly 3800 rpms, where you're putting about 135hp to the wheels. As you can see on the dyno plot the limiter kicked in at about 7100 rpms. Assuming the transmission executes an upshift just before the limiter, you'd be making around 205hp (again assuming there's no timing pullback) and drop back to about 4300 rpm, which is about 155-160whp.
also, one thing i didn't note is that by manually shifting from 2nd to 3rd i consistently gained more than a tenth. This may sound confusing, but I started out using the strategy that worked best on our TL-S, which was to launch in sportshift and allow the transmission to make the shift from 1st to 2nd for you, because it would always pull off a perfectly crisp redline shift. Then I'd bump it over to normal drive mode for the 2-3 and upper shifts because it's really difficult to time the 2-3 upshift without hitting the limiter in sportshift mode. In D, it would execute a flawless shift right near the limiter. For some reason in "D" it was more conservative for the 1-2 shift than in sportshift. I (incorrectly) assumed the '04 would be similar, but it was actually the opposite. My first run was a 14.8, then a few more 14.8s, a 14.9, a 15.000 and then i finally decided to cool the car for about 5 minutes and then i decided to leave it in sportshift. My first try was a 14.7. while it shifted from 2nd to 3rd later than the normal programming does, it was still well short of the redline. The next run, i actually clipped the limiter briefly and still got a 14.68. My other runs in the 14.6 range were all obtained shifting as close to the limiter as possible (on the 2-3 shift)
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From: NYC
Originally posted by vinarnold
i am going to give up soon and just race on the streets...
i am going to give up soon and just race on the streets...
dont feel bad my car is slow as balls...Ill be lucky if I can hit 15
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From: NYC
did it ever accure to anybody that maybe they did the old slow shiftin ESM like they did on the replacement trannies. there is no sense in making it shift fast and causing another tranny fiasco.
I havent driven the new tl so I couldnt tell you for sure but if the shifting is slower...it doesnt matter how good you launch or waht rpms you shift it will still shift slow
I havent driven the new tl so I couldnt tell you for sure but if the shifting is slower...it doesnt matter how good you launch or waht rpms you shift it will still shift slow
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From: NYC
Originally posted by vinarnold
lou we will do it on the streets not the track.....on the streets the tl is a mean bitch...ask ant about my reaction times on the streets i am good on the lights ....just on the track i suck.
lou we will do it on the streets not the track.....on the streets the tl is a mean bitch...ask ant about my reaction times on the streets i am good on the lights ....just on the track i suck.
Sweet as Gold
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: NY
HAHAHAHA....Vin u douche...did u read that above. Makes sense to me and I think u can do better. Basically what he's saying is leave it in Sport Shift mode on launch. What he would do is smash the gas like I told u to do and let the trans shift into second by itself. Then on the 2-3 upshift he would slide the shifter lever into D5 to the right INSTEAD of using the SS mode for that shift. Get it cause I do and I think it might work.
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From: NYC
Originally posted by vinarnold
we all go up to dunkin doughnuts next to our house to chill during the week you are more then welcome to come...
we all go up to dunkin doughnuts next to our house to chill during the week you are more then welcome to come...
where is it and what time???
oh and whos buying teh donuts ??
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From: NYC
Originally posted by vinarnold
lou its in westbury on old country road pretty easy to get to we go around 8:30 9:00. you got the benz and you are asking people to buy you doughnuts..hehehehe
lou its in westbury on old country road pretty easy to get to we go around 8:30 9:00. you got the benz and you are asking people to buy you doughnuts..hehehehe
Thread Starter
1/4 14.4 at 95
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: long island ny
to vin and lou
Originally posted by vinarnold
lou its in westbury on old country road pretty easy to get to we go around 8:30 9:00. you got the benz and you are asking people to buy you doughnuts..hehehehe
lou its in westbury on old country road pretty easy to get to we go around 8:30 9:00. you got the benz and you are asking people to buy you doughnuts..hehehehe
Sweet as Gold
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,869
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From: NY
please...I beat u by more than a hair for one...u got a 15.4 that run and I got a 14.6 It's just that ur reaction time was near perfect that run...thats all bitch. And Imma smoke ur ass on the steet bish...
Ohh...Lou...I'm the "DRAG MASTER "
It's just that ur reaction time was near perfect that run...thats all bitch. And Imma smoke ur ass on the steet bish...Ohh...Lou...I'm the "DRAG MASTER "