jaeravenal

Hello all there are various posts on here from the TL side and the Cl side but i haven't seen one for specifically a j32a2 (type s) engine.
I thank all the other posts about a throttle body coolant bypass and all the pictures but i couldn't really figure it out because it looked completely differnt on this engine so while i was getting my hands dirty i took some pictures for those who want to do this mod.

Description: bypass the flow of hot coolant into the throttle body by looping the coolant back into the coolant system.

Possible benefits: blocks flow of hot coolant to the throttle body, therefor it reduces the temperature of the thottle body and other components and sensors, might promote longevity of these parts. Lower temperature of the throttle body might mean lowered temperature of incoming air being sucked into the intake. cooler air being sucked in might mean denser, more oxygen filled air, easily combustible thus possibly making more HP

possible cons: in areas with freezing temperatures i do not recommend as your throttle body might ice up causing poor performance. in areas like that it is dependent on the coolant to heat up the throttle body to prevent icing.
possible less MPG due to cold dense air, dumping more fuel and possibly running a little richer. these were theories from the other threads that can be searched by searching "throttle body coolant bypass"
there is much more information in depth of this mod when searched.
even on other forums such as the camaro forums, the z28s experienced a 10 hp 10 torque increased by doing this mod. i'm not so sure how this would affect the j32a2.

cost: 0-3$$
tools required: 10mm wrench to remove plastic engine cover
needle nose plier, plier, anything to unclamp hose clamps

optional: vaccuum plugs. bought mine at oreillys in the aisle where they sell fuel hoses. 2.50 for a variety pack, ( i was unsure of what size to get 3/8th, 5/16th, etc)

Step one: remove plastic engine cover by using 10mm wrench
optional: remove your intake for easier access ( i didn't because my custom intake woudl be a #$$ to take out)


Basically what we are going to do is remove the hoses from under the throttle body which flow the coolant in and out. Then we are going to loop the feed and return lines for a constant buffet of coolant YUMMY.
CAUTION coolant will be expelled from the coolant system and if your system is hot you may be burned.

I have colored coded each line to be removed and where to loop etc. Here is what we are working with

Notice that red is coming out of the front valve cover and the green is located on top of the intake

I believe, but i might be wrong, that the green sucks the coolant from the throttle body, while the red returns it to the coolant system. These tubes are linked together by brown metal looking thing.

You can remove any coolant line you want but i have made it in simple steps for those of you who like to follow directions.
Here is the green tube removed from underneath the throttle body, visually trace the green tube to find out where it is.



Now with the green tube removed , we are going to remove the red tube. In this picture i am pointing where that would be located. You can also visually trace the red hose to the point of removal


here is an upclose of the red tube, uncolored. notice this is the front right of the engine.


Now here is the red tube removed

don't be stupid like me and buy a hose splicer/connector you will not need it


here is where the red tube used to be connected to



now with both the red and green tubes removed, we are ready to move on to the next step,
please don't be stupid like me and loop the green and red tube together as you will be looping a whole lot of nothing



next you will remove the other coolant line from under the throttle body

here is a picture of underneath the throttle body, with vaccuum plugs installed. the green is to the green tube, the purple is another tube which i will show in another picture


here is where the purple tube is coming from

i believe this was the coolant feed line into the throttle body. notice the circled red , its the same place where the red tube used to plug into.


now finally, we are going to loop that purple hose with the existing tube into the red hole


and there you have it a bypassed throttle body.






cap of the throttle body lines where you disconnected the green and purple tubes if you want,
you can leave the red and green tube connected or you can
take them off


or you can plug them (cosmetic, nothing will be flowing through these tubes at all


and here is the picture of the variety vaccuum plug i bought part # 47397





MPG factor: i usually expect 20mpg with city driving, which i have been getting consistently for the past month. I have just put gas after this mod so i will be updating if my fuel economy dropped. I'm driving more aggressive so i'll factor that in (late to school, late to work)

butt dyno: in conjunction with cold weather and a cold air intake(it has been 55-60 degrees in town), i felt a massive improvement. engine was warmed up and i was crusing around town , flat ground stop light. I wanted to hit VTAK so i preceded the 1st gear pull, normal take off, no launch and at around 2k rpm punched it and had wheelspin all the way from 3k RPM, up to shifting to 2nd gear at redline, in which i had a much longer bout of wheelspin than usual. I don't know if it was just cold or what or am i driving differently but i was like WADAFUG. I did a Vtak pull up a slight hill and still had a long bout of wheelspin, usually i only get like 1-3 seconds but this wheelspin felt like 5+ seconds

my tires are in the same shape as they were last week about 80%
but i might just have crappy ass tires and all of this butt dyno is just trickery and there were no actual gains

the throttle body is much cooler to the touch after long driving and will not burn my hands.

good luck have fun!

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

If you live in a warm climate, this is certainly a good mod to do.

Great write up, as well!

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

and if u are in a cold climate. i would shy away from this mod as it can lead to throttle body freeze-up and wonky idle..

did it on my previous car and had massive idle issues. dunno if its the same on this car but i do know its good to have it hooked up when it's cold.. tbs will no work properly in cold ass weather..

TheWeez

It's not worth the trouble. The throttle body still heats up all the same after a couple minutes and it can cause other issues. Additionally the benefits are pretty much nil. It's more placebo than anything else. Do you really think the temp of the inlet air can be changed that much in the millisecond it flows by the throttle body? People do this mod with every car under the sun and every dyno I've seen has shown no increase in HP or torque.

It's not just something that those in cold weather should avoid. Most of us will get some buildup on the throttle body over time even if we're good about cleaning it from time to time. Heating it a bit can cause this buildup to stick less allowing the throttle body to open and close easier.

jaeravenal

I agree with everyone who said not to do this in a cold climate, i mentioned it above somewhere in the post as well, it can cause icing which will interfere with the idle and cause poor performance. Imagine h20 dense icy air like at 40 degrees then being sucked in by the intake , that turbulence might cause it to freeze and all that junk.

I'm located in california where it's consistently above 50 degrees and i have a very nil chance of the ice problem.

As for actual gains or anything, it's basically a free mod and i haven't read anything that it would hurt. For the butt dyno, i felt an improvement, but thats just a butt dyno we all feel a difference. I wish there was a nearby dyno station here but its probably 2 hours away and $$$$.

As for temperature difference, there is a massive difference of temperature when i physically touch the throttle body after warming the engine up or extended driving periods.
Before with the coolant still attached, it was uncomfortable to touch,

now with the bypass the throttle body can be touched without it being uncomfortable

If all else fails i can reconnect the lines if i don't like it, just takes under 5 minutes

with this mod you'll have a minor weight reduction, less hoses, easier access of the throttle body all for free
mizers for performance : "every little bit counts" lol


Here is a dyno of an LT1 camaro and it's dyno gains.. kind of shady
but i haven't seen anything negative besides someone in a cold climate having icing problems
http://www.ws6.com/mod-8.htm

And i agree with the air coming in so fast, what effect would a heated throttle body have on incoming air?

imagine a supercharged/turboed car with cold ass compressed air going through a heated throttle body, i'm sure there will be somewhat of an effect

i'm thinking of a cheap way to simulate this,
a hollowed out soda can heated up to a similar temperature of a heated throttle body around 180 degrees or probably much less, and have a leaf blower blow throw it

vs a hollow soda can with minor heating (simulating heatsoak of the engine)
with a leaf blowe rblowing through it

if any little gains happen i'd take it lol.

as for a clean throttle body, possibly the small amount of heatsoak would be efficient to make the gunk not stick?

or just install a couple of catch cans


anyways, thanks all for thoughts and inputs!

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

I did it just to try. I find no difference and am too lazy to put it back to stock. Oh well, it can't hurt.

jaeravenal

If it's free and it doesn't hurt then it's all good

jaeravenal

MPG: update

I put my usual 2 gallons even (i put gas all the time)
and noticed no decrease in MPG
possibly an increase in MPG
I have been driving very aggressively, hitting vtec & WOT very very occasionally
and too lazy to upshift so cruising at 3k -4k to a stop

and i averaged a 43.5 mile on just 2 gallons of gas, keep in mind this was purelycity
driving


after this mod, my mpg was 3.5 above my usual 40 miles on 2 gallons (10% highway, 90% city), with conservative driving
then again it's possibly no increase or decrease at all,
i'd have to fill it up completely and record from there but my income from my job isn't enough.

Dr. Jekyll

There should be no MPG difference from doing this mod. The only potential is for slightly higher HP at WOT. The cooler intake air is more dense and at WOT, you can add a touch more fuel to get a touch more bang out of each combustion stroke.

At cruise speed or anything less than WOT, the ECU detects the cooler air and adds the proper amount of fuel to achieve stoichiometric combustion.

For example (Using generic numbers for illustration purposes....):

Lets say you're cruising down the highway at 80 mph.

With cooler intake air temps, you're at 30% throttle opening and putting out 100HP.

You need to be at 100HP to cruise at this speed....any less, you decelerate, any more, you accelerate.

With hotter intake temps, the air is less dense and the ECU will add less fuel to obtain the proper air fuel ratio. Less air and less fuel means less HP. This means that you will have to bump up your throttle opening to 35% to flow more air in to get more fuel in to maintain your 100HP for cruising at 80mph.

Essentially, you are flowing the same amount of air and fuel to maintain your 100HP or 80mph cruise speed regardless of what your intake temperature is.

The only time cooler air means anything, assuming all other variables are constant, is at WOT. With the colder air, it is more dense and you can essentially get more air into the cylinders because it is more dense....the ecu adds more fuel to maintain proper AFR and you get a slight increase in HP.

jaeravenal

Thanks Dr. Jekyl,

I am confused why it wouldn't affect MPG in at least a little way because you mentioned with
colder air it takes less throttle than it would with warm air
therefore woudln't it save fuel because less throttle effort ?

Again i'm not claiming any gains but surely there is a difference somewhere along the lines

fsttyms1

Have never had an issue with any of my hondas/acura (and we are talking close to a million miles combined with them) with it removed and it gets cold here. Will it help the average person, no but on the same token everyone looking to gain every little bit (ie thermo gaskets) if you put them on you might as well remove the lines. no point in putting a tb thermo spacer on to keep engine heat off the tb if you are just going to be warming it up with 160+ deg coolant

Dr. Jekyll

At cruise speeds,
Cold air: lower throttle opening (air is more dense than hot air so the throttle does not have to open as much to get the same amount in), same amount of fuel
Hot air: More throttle opening (air is less dense so throttle must open more to get same amount of air as the cold dense air), same amount of fuel

Effectively, in either situation, you are getting the same amount of air in and adding the same amount of fuel to it to obtain the same optimal air fuel ratio for proper engine running and performance.


Absolutely right. I also think that the icing is prevented by the the TB surfaces being heated so the moisture/ice cannot condense on the body itself. I do not think it is heating the air itself much, rather preventing icing by raising the surface temperature of the body and butterfly above 32F. That being said, I can see the hot TB conducting heat into the intake manifold where it has much more surface area and potential for heating the intake air resulting in a slight reduction in WOT performance.

This mod needs to be done in conjunction with the thermal spacer under the upper intake manifold to really see any benefit. Without using the thermal spacer under the upper IM, the heat from the block is conducted to the IM and it gets really hot and has much more heating effect than a hot TB ever would. A lot of the upper IM heat would be conducted to the TB and it would still be hot as well...even with this mod. I think that there is no need to use a thermal spacer between the TB and the IM if you have done this mod and have the thermal spacer under the upper IM.

fsttyms1

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

I did, and at first i got a odd lobbing from 1k to 2k back and fourth, but than it went away .

I also put a breather on by the oil cap , and ditched the air line. Cleaner engine bay .

frankjohnson8

Really good thread!

jaeravenal

Hello all i have significant updates to share.

Tools used: torquepro android market app
android phone

elm 327 bluetooth adapter

method: hook up elm 327 bluetooth adapter to service port to read check engine lights and monitor information from the ecu of the car by using an android phone with the torque pro app (probably will write a thread on this nifty device)

Before the bypass mod car warmed up, around 65 degrees or less outside

air intake temperature (idle): 130-140 degrees Farenheight
Air intake temperature (cruising): 110-120 degrees farenheight
air intake temperature (Wide open throttle): high 98-110 degrees farenheight

with the bypass mod: (same, warmed up, around 65 degrees or less outside)
air intake temperature (idle): 100-120 farenheight
Air intake temperature (cruising): 85-99 farenheight
air intake temperature (Wide open throttle): lowest recorded temperature 65-78

if these figures really aren't significant to the performance of my car, at least i know that everything is definitely running cooler with this mod with the tools i used to measure.

if colder air doesn't = more hp, then why do dynos show that having a cold air intake increases hp (even just by a little bit?)

fsttyms1

Colder air DOES make more hp.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

Lol

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Drove my acura in 30 degree weather the other day

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

All you need to do to get more power is move to the midwest where the temp get below 30 degrees, problem solved :P

TheWeez

Cold weather additives and increased ethanol levels in midwestern gas in the winter can zap power. It's also hard to hook up when theres ice on the ground and your tires are frozen blocks.

jaeravenal

exactly what i thought.

was confused of dr. jekyls statement that colder air doesnt increase hp but it decrease the need for the throttle body to be open because colder air is dense and doesnt need that much air to suck ?

Dr. Jekyll

First line of my response

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

I thought I'd share this , i had to trim a small piece of the black engine cover too

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikebikelife/8226587330/http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikebikelife/8226587330/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/mikebikelife/, on Flickr

jaeravenal

Ah thanks, i overlooked that! Thanks for all the information you contributed =]

jaeravenal

Nice G-take!
I'm thinking I should do one like this for the rainy season !
I'm even thinking about converting to short ram and just get some type of tubing from the faux fog lights or the front grill shooting into the filter area if i do convert to short ram . all these ghetto dreamz, or possibly even creating my own air box that would fit a bigger filter GHETTO DREAMZZ!!


So you have a breather filter and a tube coming out of the same place?

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

Its just the breather.

kingofdust

Mike what is that smaller filter doing?

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

its a breather for the valve cover... it allows oil vapour out of that location.. usually gets sucked through the intake back into the manifold, however he had bypassed it. So that filter prevent the vapour from building up on components in the engine bay.

most people would put a catch can in between that location and the intake which catches the vapor and contains it.

but this fella has a g take already so we KNOW he's cheap LOL

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

Hey now , that filter was a whole ten bucks !
And I have lots of money in my car , I just don't even know what a catch can is .

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

Better start learnin'

fsttyms1

no way to get Z rated rubber to hook up on frozen roads. Hell anything below 40 deg and traction is very hard to come by for me.

FwC

iTrader: (1)

I just did this, but I have an automatic. I got the TB lines bypassed, does the same principle apply with the VSA lines?

jaeravenal

I'm not so sure. I didn't even know i had VSA lines ,
maybe it's just on the automatics?

Where is this VSA line located?

FwC

iTrader: (1)

It is part of the intake. The VSA body sits before the Throttle body and has 2 coolant lines connected to it also as well as some sensor plugs. I just used the same principle as the TB coolant bypass and it works, and capped off the tubes on the TB and VSA TB.

It is just on autos.

Peterkay

I saw you didn't have this secondary throttle body or idk what it is but you don't have it with your "custom" intake. There's hoses going to it and I tried to block them off but coolant still makes it way out. What is it and is there a way to route them so they don't leak?

Matt Ohearn

Funny how this popped up earlier today I was using a infrared thermometer to try and get an idea of the my IAT would be after a drive around town I popped the hood and pointed it right at the throttle body and it was 140 degrees I did this mod and only took about 10minutes went out for a drive came back with the car still running the thermometer was reading 74 degrees and felt cool to the touch

TheWeez

Really doesn't make much, if any, difference. That air goes by so quickly that it's not soaking heat in that time. But it makes a lot of people feel better doing any and all mods. Anything for that extra 0.01HP.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I've been resisting replying to this thread and saying basically the same thing. This silly mod is an absolute waste of time and effort.

TheWeez

And if you live in a cold weather climate, you have to reverse it every time fall comes around or your throttle body can freeze up and refuse to open/close in the winter.

This is a "mod" done to every car and of countless dyno results I've seen, not once has it resulted in even a single HP or TQ increase. You're better off taking a poop before driving to get better performance.