Intercooled SC Dyno
06-18-2004, 10:53 AM
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Intercooled SC Dyno
Overall I was very happy with the results which I'll detail in a moment. The results were (plot is below):
369.0 WHP
310.4 WTQ
And with a very impressive and flat torque curve.
The conditions were not ideal. It was nearly 90 F outside at the time of the dyno and was muggy as can be. This is contrary to what it was the last time on the rollers; about 40 F. Although it is SAE corrected that does not account for timing changes made by the ECU when seeing these temperature differences. Intake temps on the previous dyno were in the 70 range; this time they were in the 110 - 120 range. I'm going to go back next winter and make some more pulls just to see the difference but I would not be surprised to see 380+ WHP (10 - 15 WHP more),
I am also glad to see this was in the range I speculated on. I guess my calculations were somewhat correct.
In the below image are three plots. The red one is one of the old ones which was run at about the same A/F ratio and had no knock at all. I had made 323 WHP previously but that was running it leaner and with audible knock present. I wanted a like comparison so went with this plot to compare with.
The green line was through the stock exhaust which was also done on the old one (red line). Right off the bat the IC and 2 PSI more boost gave me 40 WHP and about the same in torque. The results would certainly have been greater than what is shown if done in like conditions with the same IAT readings. I would expect another 10 WHP gain if run in 40 degree weather which would give the total gains from the IC and boost at about 50 WHP and 50 WTQ.
The blue line is with the exhaust cut-out open and is obviously the highest output. This was somewhat surprising though as I expected a greater change in power. As you can see, torque did not drop off as much up high but was nearly the same down low, actually losing some at points (not altogether surprising). But man was it loud in there as WOT up top.
That little gain, percentage wise, is not enough for me to consider an exhaust change now. I would expect maybe 8 - 10 WHP from high flow exhaust which is not worth the extra sound IMO.
The one surprising part is lack or torque continuing up high. I expected the torque to stay flatter at the upper revs due to the change in runner design. But I guess I was wrong. It certainly is not bad but I did expect a little better flow up top. It may be that no matter how well the intake flowed, the bottled up exhaust was going to limit it at this point. With the cut-out open boost did drop nearly 1 PSI which is expected.
So in the end, 369 WHP was made on 7 PSI intercooled boost.
I guess with an exhaust though I could get another pulley and raise boost a little more. In colder weather that could give me 390 - 400 WHP. Hrmm, maybe I am not done yet...
Full Dyno Plot
369.0 WHP
310.4 WTQ
And with a very impressive and flat torque curve.
The conditions were not ideal. It was nearly 90 F outside at the time of the dyno and was muggy as can be. This is contrary to what it was the last time on the rollers; about 40 F. Although it is SAE corrected that does not account for timing changes made by the ECU when seeing these temperature differences. Intake temps on the previous dyno were in the 70 range; this time they were in the 110 - 120 range. I'm going to go back next winter and make some more pulls just to see the difference but I would not be surprised to see 380+ WHP (10 - 15 WHP more),
I am also glad to see this was in the range I speculated on. I guess my calculations were somewhat correct.
In the below image are three plots. The red one is one of the old ones which was run at about the same A/F ratio and had no knock at all. I had made 323 WHP previously but that was running it leaner and with audible knock present. I wanted a like comparison so went with this plot to compare with.
The green line was through the stock exhaust which was also done on the old one (red line). Right off the bat the IC and 2 PSI more boost gave me 40 WHP and about the same in torque. The results would certainly have been greater than what is shown if done in like conditions with the same IAT readings. I would expect another 10 WHP gain if run in 40 degree weather which would give the total gains from the IC and boost at about 50 WHP and 50 WTQ.
The blue line is with the exhaust cut-out open and is obviously the highest output. This was somewhat surprising though as I expected a greater change in power. As you can see, torque did not drop off as much up high but was nearly the same down low, actually losing some at points (not altogether surprising). But man was it loud in there as WOT up top.
That little gain, percentage wise, is not enough for me to consider an exhaust change now. I would expect maybe 8 - 10 WHP from high flow exhaust which is not worth the extra sound IMO.
The one surprising part is lack or torque continuing up high. I expected the torque to stay flatter at the upper revs due to the change in runner design. But I guess I was wrong. It certainly is not bad but I did expect a little better flow up top. It may be that no matter how well the intake flowed, the bottled up exhaust was going to limit it at this point. With the cut-out open boost did drop nearly 1 PSI which is expected.
So in the end, 369 WHP was made on 7 PSI intercooled boost.
I guess with an exhaust though I could get another pulley and raise boost a little more. In colder weather that could give me 390 - 400 WHP. Hrmm, maybe I am not done yet...
Full Dyno Plot
06-18-2004, 10:54 AM
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One thing I forgot to mention or highlight, look at the torque gains with the IC system in the mid range. About 50 lb/ft at about 4700 RPM.
06-18-2004, 11:04 AM
#7
Suzuka Master
Scalbert, can you post all your mods here? I couldn't find it in your profile and I know that's gotta be more than a CL-S with I/H/E + s/c + intercooler.
Also, are you running stock compression?
Also, are you running stock compression?
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06-18-2004, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
Scalbert, can you post all your mods here? I couldn't find it in your profile and I know that's gotta be more than a CL-S with I/H/E + s/c + intercooler.
Also, are you running stock compression?
Also, are you running stock compression?
Yes, it is the stock compression as the internals have not been touched.
06-18-2004, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mantis23
How long before a trip to the good ole 1/4 strip?
06-18-2004, 12:06 PM
#20
Safety Car
I see 110+ mph trap speeds... this is exciting!! Do you have an AFR plot Steve? It shows up the exhaust cutout doesn't play a significant role in an S/C application. I picked up ~20whp at 5.5 psi with an open exhaust.
Boy, you have definateley raised the bar up a notch
Boy, you have definateley raised the bar up a notch
06-18-2004, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn S
Now how do you plan to keep the front end on the ground during launch attempts ???
06-18-2004, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
Wow Steve... good work!!! 
I remember saying 370whp!!
I remember saying 370whp!!
06-18-2004, 12:42 PM
#29
Revving at 9K...
Oh my.. that is impressive numbers Steve!
btw, i can't remember if your system was water to air, or air to air? If its water to air, any thoughts of having an opening for dry ice or ice for additional (track use) cooling? What about the NOS system the have for cooling the intercoolers, if it is air to air?
Again, congrats on the awsome numbers!
btw, i can't remember if your system was water to air, or air to air? If its water to air, any thoughts of having an opening for dry ice or ice for additional (track use) cooling? What about the NOS system the have for cooling the intercoolers, if it is air to air?
Again, congrats on the awsome numbers!
06-18-2004, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
I see 110+ mph trap speeds... this is exciting!! Do you have an AFR plot Steve? It shows up the exhaust cutout doesn't play a significant role in an S/C application. I picked up ~20whp at 5.5 psi with an open exhaust.
Boy, you have definateley raised the bar up a notch
Boy, you have definateley raised the bar up a notch
The bar is only raised for what, a week or two until you get everything put together??
Now I'm in a quandary, I was fine when I left the dyno in leaving this alone. But knowing that a freer flowing exhaust might allow me to run another pulley and bring it back up in the 8 PSI range thus making 15+WHP is enticing. But then again, would the extra power be welcome with the additional noise. I like how quiet the car is right now but the thought of possibly making 390 WHP in cooler weather is attractive.Oh well, I'll wait on this some as I wouldn't go back until this winter anyway. That gives me time to mull it over. In the mean time I'll also look into other possible changes to help get to 400 WHP. That is a level which I know is not going to be difficult for your set up.
The one great thing about this car right now is the drivability; it is incredible. The power is everywhere and is completely seamless and linear with throttle input.
06-18-2004, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
Even with the cut-out open it only went up a few tenths. I was a bit surprised about how little the gain was; 14 WHP is not to bad but I did expect more.
06-18-2004, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty
your joking right?.. 14 WHP from a estimated $150.00 dump is well worth it.. besides this is what we calculated when I first came up with the idea.
I just expected more from it though but am not all together disappointed. At these power levels I just assumed that the factory exhaust was going to be more restrictive than it was.
:o
06-18-2004, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CLS2001_97124
btw, i can't remember if your system was water to air, or air to air? If its water to air, any thoughts of having an opening for dry ice or ice for additional (track use) cooling? What about the NOS system the have for cooling the intercoolers, if it is air to air?
06-18-2004, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
How driveable is it though? I hear so much bad press with FWD cars that have a ton of power.
06-18-2004, 01:28 PM
#40
Safety Car
Originally Posted by scalbert
No A/F plots as I just referenced the Tech Edge display. But it held pretty consistent in the high 11's:1 range. Even with the cut-out open it only went up a few tenths. I was a bit surprised about how little the gain was; 14 WHP is not to bad but I did expect more.
The bar is only raised for what, a week or two until you get everything put together?? Now I'm in a quandary, I was fine when I left the dyno in leaving this alone. But knowing that a freer flowing exhaust might allow me to run another pulley and bring it back up in the 8 PSI range thus making 15+WHP is enticing. But then again, would the extra power be welcome with the additional noise. I like how quiet the car is right now but the thought of possibly making 390 WHP in cooler weather is attractive.
Oh well, I'll wait on this some as I wouldn't go back until this winter anyway. That gives me time to mull it over. In the mean time I'll also look into other possible changes to help get to 400 WHP. That is a level which I know is not going to be difficult for your set up.
The one great thing about this car right now is the drivability; it is incredible. The power is everywhere and is completely seamless and linear with throttle input.
The bar is only raised for what, a week or two until you get everything put together??
Now I'm in a quandary, I was fine when I left the dyno in leaving this alone. But knowing that a freer flowing exhaust might allow me to run another pulley and bring it back up in the 8 PSI range thus making 15+WHP is enticing. But then again, would the extra power be welcome with the additional noise. I like how quiet the car is right now but the thought of possibly making 390 WHP in cooler weather is attractive.Oh well, I'll wait on this some as I wouldn't go back until this winter anyway. That gives me time to mull it over. In the mean time I'll also look into other possible changes to help get to 400 WHP. That is a level which I know is not going to be difficult for your set up.
The one great thing about this car right now is the drivability; it is incredible. The power is everywhere and is completely seamless and linear with throttle input.
Any power differences depending on the boost-cut clamp voltage set in the E-Manage?