NSX-Tuner

I'm currently at the dealership and getting the 37,500 mi. service. I was just told that one of the lug nuts wouldn't loosen up to complete the tire rotation. I've got longer/hardened wheel lugs on the front that are from a CompTech NSX BBK, 5mm wheel spacers and Guerrilla capped type lug nuts.

I've decided not do the tire rotation and leave that one seized lug nut alone until I can figure out how to get it off without break the stud. Can anyone suggest how to loosen up the lug nut without breaking the wheel stud?

Also, I did some calling around and was told that there's a good chance that my rim might get scatched in the process of breaking the stud if the nut doesn't loosen up. That would be a bummer since I've got volks mounted.

thanks...

thedream21479

Have you tried using a realllly long breaker bar? I've come across lugs that wouldn't break with a 600 lb/ft impact wrench, but a long breaker bar (use your stock lug wrench and a piece of pipe) did!

Spray that thing down with WD-40 or something first--and I wouldn't be that big a deal if you broke the stud...they are cheap and youcould just get another one pressed in at any brake shop

mattg

spray some wd40 on it and let it soak. then you just have to cross your fingers and slowly turn it off of there. the threads are probably damaged from being cross threaded before. they will get even more damaged taking the lug nut off. and it's possible it will break.

i think you can do it w/o scratching your wheel. you just need to go slow and be extra careful. once you get it off you'll have to either clean up the threads w/ a chaser or replace the stud and lug nut.

who put that wheel on last? maybe you should shift the blame to them and have them fix it?

Smitty

heat it

mattg

torch + volks =

clorich

and hit it with some penetrating lube like

this.

NSX-Tuner

I tried a long breaker bar at the dealer but it wouldn't budge. I could have put more weight on turning it but didn't want to risk breaking it.

I believe the dealership last touch the lug nuts after the last tire rotation. But I may have also re-torqued the front because of the wheel spacers. So I may have put too much torque on it. I'll see if I can work something out with the dealer. They've been really good about being fair in the past.

I'll take your guys suggestion and try soaking it. However, it's a capped lug nut so I'm not sure how much penetration there will be with wd40.

Unless I have to take the tire off for some reason before the next service in about 4k miles, I'll wait until then. What I will do is order several spare studs from CompTech and a couple of new nuts before attempting to remove the nut.

If I was able to remove the nut without breaking the stud, should I go ahead and replace the stud and nut? Also, is there some special grease that can be used to prevent the binding up?

thanks...

Allout

That really sucks. Maybe drill a hole in the top of the lug so you can squirt some liquid wrench in. Good luck Gary.

NSX-Tuner

That's a great idea. That would help keep the wd40 inside the nut and let it soak the thread well.

thanks...

Smitty

I did not say burn it off....

cut a small piece of tin....

mattg

sounds like breaking it may be inevitable. hopefully the dealership will help you out. you want to keep the studs clean and as rust free as possible. and make sure they only get torqed to 80 lbs. less impact gun the better.

Smitty

Anti-Seize compound... it is usually grey in color... you should use it on ever nut and bolt that needs torq. down.

mattg

i'm still lost.

Smitty

tin will not conduct heat... if he cuts a small piece and slides in around the lug nut, he can take a torch to the lug nut ONLY....

mattg

actually, you really only want to use that on heavy trucks, or crusty wheel studs.

cars and light trucks are better off w/ clean threads.



keep in mind, i don't live in the rust belt.

Smitty

who told you that myth?

Smitty

thats like saying you are only suppose to use WD40 on a bicycle.

Slimey

I thought preventive anti-seize was a no-no for the lug nuts/bolts.

Everything I've read before said to specifically avoid getting the anti-seize on the lugs -- coat the hub so the wheel comes off easily at the next rotation, but avoid the lug.

mattg

i used to manage a tire store. i've also worked for les schwab.

PavDog

heat then impact wrench. i wouldn't use a breaker bar because that will prob just wrench the stud out.. the impact wrench (light to moderate setting) might tap it loose though..

mattg

and that is correct. like i said.

Allout

I've read that too but I've never understood why

Do you think it has something to do with the heat generated by the brakes turning the anti-seize into a gummy compound?

Slimey

I thought I've read
1) it's more difficult to properly torque a greased lug and therefore you'll overtorque, or unevenly torque each of the lugs
2) the lug nuts will spontaneously come off because of slippage from the grease

Neither makes sense or seems logical to me though.

CL Type Slim

First your former stock rims/tires are doing great.
Try Kroil, my coworkers swear by it, it is suppose to be the best. Try it.

http://www.kanolabs.com/

NSX-Tuner

Thanks guys for all the info. Talk about a call to arms to help out a fellow CL'er.

NSX-Tuner

Glad to hear your are putting them to good use. And I'll check out this Kroil stuff.

thanks...

Smitty

I have been anti-seizing lug threads for 12 years and my dad has done it for over 30+ years..

It uses the same principle as putting a little oil on the rubber seal of your oil filter...

I can run a car for 3000K and go to torque the lugs and they will all be PERFECT.

Anti-seize compound keep components from RUSTING and SEIZING up.. why the hell would you want your Rims to SEAL or SEIZE.... use common sense for goodness sakes!

do as you wish when you maintance your car.. I put antiseize on the screws that hold the rotors on the HUB... you think they are lose?.. think my brake will fall off..

Some of you guys crack me up.... the point is.. if the thread starter put alittle anitseize on the lug threads in the first place he would not be in the trouble that he is now.

take my words with a grain a salt... I could careless

Joe5.0

I have always just put a drop or two of motor oil on the threads before winter, so that the salt doesnt rust them on. Anti-seize would probably work good also, I just have never felt the need to use it. I have to rotate the wheels and swicth them for track use so often that unless I cross-thread them, they arent gonna seize up.

I say just put a breaker bar on it and get the bastard off. Studs are cheap and relatively easy to replace. Why risk hurting your wheel or wearing the tires unevenly for a $10 stud?

Allout

I understood the front studs were hard to replace as it involved pressing the hub off the wheel bearing to separate it from the steering knuckle?

mlb585

If an impact wrench on full doesn't take it off (or if using a really long breaker bar), then it won't come off without breaking. I'd buy a new stud or stud set (whatever quantity they come in) and get ready to take that lug nut off.

NSX-Tuner

This is true. That's what the dealer had to do when I had them replace the front stock studs with longer ones.

Bluto

Not if the dealer cross-threaded the lug.



I use antiseize BTW. I always check and re-torque my wheels after a rotation.


I'd use a small butane torch on the lug, then non-flam liquid wrench on the hot lug.

The lug should not transfer any more heat to the wheel then what the brakes generate.


cls6sp03,
If the dealer did you last rotation you may want to pick up a new lug and wheel stud. Sounds like this one is going to break. Go after them for the labor to replace it.

NSX-Tuner

After thinking about it, I can remember re-torquing the wheels after the last rotation. One of the nuts on the right-front turned a little bit when I applied too much force on the torque wrench. I believe I'm the guilty party that caused the over-torquing.

Bluto

Did you back the lug out before re-torquing? Backing it off is the only way to tell if it was cross threaded (it will spin or break), or prevent it running over torqued (and possibly warp rotors).

The ATF fill plug on my replacement transmission was cross threaded. It took a 600 ft-lb impact wrench to get the plug off.

I think your lug is cross threaded, not over torqued or rusted.

SiGGy

if you spent more than an hour or two dealing with it you should have just broken it off and rplaced it. You do not need to have the new studs pressed in. You can put them back on /w a washer, breaker bar & a lug nut youself.

take wheel off, hammer old stud out. Put new stud in. Put washers around stud, put lug nut on a few turns by hand. And hit it with a pnumatic or big torque wrench until you pull the stud flush... done it more times than i care to talk about....

$10 to fix...

never tighten wheels /w a air gun. Unless you have a torque limiting bar on it... most wheels only take 90-110 ft/lbs of torque. And *always* put the lugs on a few *complete* turns by hand 1st.

mattg

are you sure it's that easy SiGGy? i heard you have to pull the axle to R&I the stud...


either that or cut a piece out of the brake backing plate. i heard this from the tech @ acura that works on my car.

NSX-Tuner

Heard basically the same from the tech who replaced the stock studs with longer ones when I had the BBK installed.

Allout

I've looked at it when I put on my BBK and had the brake dust shield off. You'll run into the knuckle if you try pounding out the lug on the front. I did see a procedure at a Honda site that cut off the old one off so you could pound out the nub and it would clear the knuckle. Grind off part of the base of the new stud so it was flat with the shaft of the new lug and it was able to clear the knuckle.

SiGGy

Well removing and replaceing the stud itself is. No clue whats in the way... never done it on my CLS.

Just saying you don't need a press to do it is all... needing a press means you have to disassemble 1/2 of the front end practically. Then put the hub into the press. That would be a pain...

I don't have a manual to look at the front end broken down either, so no clue on the CLS specifics. Really that wouldn't help either. I'd have to try it once.


Sounds like the post above is a way around, but you'd need a grinder. Some studs already have the notch (flat spot) on them already.

mattg

i think you do need a press though, for the wheel bearing.


unless you grind like Allout said, or cut a notch in the backing plate.


bottom line, changing wheel studs on a cl-s isn't easy.