scalbert

Better tell that to Toyota, I've seen a few batteries and alternators in some Toyota vehicles. I bet we could find something in ours...

Scorpius

I don't understand the AC Delco reference... is that a lousy company or something?

JRock

They make the stock radio headunits in most GM products.

Scorpius

And?!?

02 Aegean CLS

I'm an elitist? I don't think so; I simply (at this time in my life) wanted (and could easily afford) a car that was just a little bit better in build quality. After all, we do spend a lot of time in our cars don't we? Ford? Had many. GM? Yep. Chrysler? My last car was a Dodge Avenger that I thought was going to literally fall apart @25,000 miles. So for all the GTP owners who believe that all CL owners think that they're better than them, you're wrong...we don't think that WE are better than you, we think our CARS are better than yours. Or, to quote a GTP forum member:
"I'm sure there are scads of CL-S owners ecstatic about their cars. The CL-S is indeed a fine piece of work - if that's what you value [u](fine leather, perfect panel gaps etc).[u] I respect the CL-S owner if they love their car for what it is and don't look down their noses at owners of other makes."

WiLd~CL~TYPS-@SS

The GTP is okay..but i am sick of seeing almost 40+ grand am or grand prix every single day!!!

and sunfires...they are everywhere...

they are cars that many people could afford...but i would rather spend a bit more to get a better car..like my Acura..
just my opinion

scalbert

Much more than that, many of the electrical componenets are under the hood. Such as the before mentioned alternators and batteries, etc.

BBsAcuraRacing

I find 12.4's in a GTP not credible. I live in Detroit MI where a lot of GM techs bring their GTP's which are heavily modified to MILAN DRAGWAY.

The best they have been able to run , some pushing 400 HP and some with NOS, and the best is mid 13's in the l;ast 4 years.

12.4's is a laughable time from this front drver unles it is stripped to less than 3000 lbs. Traction is an issue.

On the other hand, my 3.8 liter GM car runs consistent low 11's , but it is a rear drive....Anyone know what it is?????

scalbert

Consistent 12.4's is not the case. But some or maybe only one have dipped into that territory on good conditions.

Onto the question, the obviously choice would the T-Type/GN/GNX, one of those three. But I have seen a few articles on a couple of Vette conversions, pulling the older L98 and dropping in the Buick 231 Turbo.

Seen a few T-Tpe/GN's, Bowling Green Customs was right (a 1/4 mile) from my old house and I have stopped by ATR back when I had my Typhoon.

tankmonkey

there was also that anniversary edition trans am with the gn turbo 6 a few years back...

scalbert

Damn, the '89 Turbo TA slipped my mind. And too think that I almost bought one...

M5 Lite

Sometimes I think people push themselves further by getting a GTP. Sort of how you say that you would rather spend the extra $ and get an Acura. Most people probably wanted to get a sunfire but were stretching their limits and perhaps said, what the heck, go a little better, so they get a Grand Prix or Grand Am (not GTP, those are a lot more!)

TypeSKid

First off, who the hell does this guy think he is?


I'd never go around bragging about owning a Pontiac GTP.


Secondly, its a piece of total shit. They barely sell, they have extremely low ratings when it comes to overall fit and finish of the car, dependability, and RESALE value.


You couldn't pay me to own a Pontiac, its a throw away car, like a Kia.

scalbert

From what I have seen in lots and pricing structures, the CL's are not a tremendous seller. I guarantee you that there are more GP sold than CL, but that is unfair. The GP comes in both 2 and 4 door. Oh also, the current CL resale value isn't all that great either; definitely not something to brag about.

Maybe you should have isolated your comments to the fit and finish issues. Because that is the only leg you have to stand on.

tankmonkey

true about the cl resale values being nothing to brag about, but they appear to be significantly better than the gtp coupe (at least in my area).

by way of example, from edmunds.com:

2001 cl type s base msrp (no destination): 30,330
2001 cl type s trade-in (no options): 21,553

cl type s depreciation: 28.9%

2001 gtp coupe base msrp (no destination): 25,450
2001 gtp coupe trade-in (no options): 14,310

gtp coupe depreciation: 43.8%


of course, this isn't a formal analysis by any means (and ymmv, especially in private sales), but when push comes to shove, it certainly appears the cl-s retains its value significantly better than a gtp coupe of the same vintage.

scalbert

In comparison, I am sure the CL-S has a better percentage. Hell, I got reamed when trading my GTP, but it was three years old and I still got $12,800.00. So apparently the value has dropped over the last two years possibly due the number of vehicles on the road??

I was mainly trying to point out that we can't be proud of our resale value in the whole. But if it makes someone feel better to compare ours against another, so be it...

tankmonkey

like I said, the cl isn't great.

2001 330ci base msrp (no destination): 34,990
2001 330ci trade-in (no options): 27,604

330ci depreciation: 21.1%

but, interestingly:

2001 is300 base msrp (no destination): 30,805
2001 is300 trade-in (no options): 20,801

is300 depreciation: 32.5%


as far as the acceleration in decline in gtp coupe trade in values over the past couple of years, we seem to be in a bit of a recession, so I imagine the car market in general is pretty depressed (save for the boost provided by 0% financing, which only hurts the used market more).

Pull_T

(cross posted on Racing Stories as well)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GTP DAVE

I have a 4 door automatic 3660lb car that with only $854 worth of performance mods can smoke most modified mustang gt's
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GTP DAVE

On average I run 13.7's to 13.9's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You will run even with stock GTs at those times, but you are far from smoking modified GTs.

JRock

Except that this asshat came in here to try to compare his GTP to Acuras, hence why we are comparing the Pontiac to the Acura.

Closer

Yeah you know what I talk about...

Actually I lay too much blame on AC Delco. It's more of GMs
ergonomics and interior design. The pinnacle just ends up being
the AC Delco Stereo.

BNut

Have you been to the track to watch Mustangs GT's make runs?

Most of the guys I've seen are doing good to get low 14's. Quiet a few run mid 14's stock. I've seen many modified GT's that only run high 13's. (Talking about 99+ GT's)

Remember its the driver that determines the 1/4 time, not the car. Just becaue the car is cable of mid 13's doesn't mean hill billy bob is gonna pull those kinds of times off because he can't resist laying down 30 ft of rubber on the launch.

proactive

I wish GTP D-A-V-E would come back and post more. He was funny on many levels. We haven't had a good troll since the phoney M3 kid.

Pull_T

Assuming that the Mustang driver is of "Dave GTP"-caliber, a stock 99+ GT will be easily in the 13s. Same caliber driver makes a fair comparison. A vert will have a tougher time getting there from the weight, but it's totally doable. Sure, there are a few incompetents that run mid high 14s, just as there are incompetents that would run your Accord to mid 16s and a C5 to high 13s. Though the minority out at HRP, there are plenty of dipshits out there.

I run out at HRP all the time. Have driven my car, driven others' cars and have watched others run. When it comes to how and what Mustangs run out at HRP, I know what I'm talking about.

Which Saturday morning in February are you going to be at HRP for test and tune (not street night mind you, so they'll flash the times for all to see), would you like to see a stock GT run 13.7s or a stock Bullitt GT run 13.3s or me run 12.9s. They're having them all month and I will likely be ther for most, if not all of them.

What's your 60' time since you are talking shit about Hillbilly Jim and his Rustang?

tankmonkey

shouldn't it be "hillbilly jeff" and his stock 13.3 second rustang bullitt?

I'd say 13.3 seconds isn't too shabby for having only 5 extra hp over the regular gt...

Pull_T

Hehe...hopefully the car's owner won't let him get the 4.10s in by then, so he can try and get into the 13.2s with a bone stock Mustang GT before he shoots for the 12s with 1 mod.

I really hope you go out there and wave the CL banner. I think you can get 14.6 bone stock with some tinkering.

SFLA_Type-S

I would have to say maybe a "Buick Grand National"
Those cars are capable of running 10's

fastvtecCL

this was last year. wait until you see my new surprise

http://www.acura-cl.com/movies/fastvtecl.mpg

BNut

Hahahaha, somebody a little sensitive about the Mustang comments? Lil-ricer-boy Civic Si drivers are by far the worst but I won't go off on that tangent.

I actually do test and tune in Eunice, LA which is Louisiana Raceway. Basically Hill Billy Bobs comprise about 75% of most of the people that show up. I also go to State Capitol Dragway near Baton Rouge, LA where there is a much higher ratio of competent drivers to Hill Billy Bobs.

In fact Jan 12 I'll be at Eunice from 10am to about noon with a buddy from work who has a 2002 TA Ram Air.

Oh, and about the 60' times, I've hit a 2.29 in automatic which I happen to be very proud of thank you very much. Typically I run around 2.3x 60' times though.

I'm not saying YOU can't hit 13's in a stock Mustang GT, I'm just saying odds are if you saw 5 GT's makes runs at a track, chances not a single a one would hit 13's if they were stock. (Remember its the MAN not the MACHINE)

scalbert

Just to add a bit to this, when I first ran my GTP at the track back in the spring of '97 I ran a 14.78 versus a 15.01 of a '94 (93??, Last of the older bodies) Cobra which had the same HP and nearly the same torque but a manual and steeper gearing. Who should have won??

tankmonkey

when I first ran my cl-s at the track last january, I ran a 14.8 versus the 15.5 of an indeterminate year gtp, which had more torque, a better aftermarket, and several years more development for drag racing duty. who should have won??



can we finish belaboring the point that the driver is a critical element in a drag race already? :P

scalbert

Ah, come one, we need at least 238 more posts verifying this point.

tankmonkey

is this somewhere in the acura-cl. com bylaws? did the post-whoring and hijacking committee and the committee for redundancy committee approve this measure?

although... 238 additional posts like this would certainly help to lower the signal-to-noise ratio to levels appropriate for this forum...

I move for a floor vote...

Zapata

what were you running before and after the 3.5l upgrade. Did you do the upgrade yourself, did a dealer do it? Did you upgrade the torque converter?

Pull_T

I saw Houston on your profile and thought you might run out at Baytown (HRP). If you haven't been there before, I would add that there are not that many hillbillys out there and it is one of, if not the best facility in the world.

When I make references to times run, I always refer to experienced, "good" drivers whether I'm talking Mustangs or any other make. If I watched 5 stock GTPs, I would likely see many more 15s than 14s and if I watch 5 C5 Vettes, I would see more 13s than 12s, etc.

BNut

I've run 2-3 times at HRP, but only on Friday nights which sucks since they only show who one on the boards without showing the times.

Do they do Test n Tune on Wed or Sat at HRP?

Pull_T

www.houstonraceway.com

They only do the test and tune's during the Spring in preparation for the O'Reilly Nationals in April. I know they have it every Saturday in February. Gates open at 9:00 AM Trials start at 10:00.

It is without a doubt the best time to go. If you were so inclined, you could get 30-40 runs in.

dgracer

GTP Dave is almost comparing apples to oranges. The GTP uses a supercharger and a bigger engine to get 20 LESS hp! Granted, there will be much more torque.

The differences are really refinement and resale. I considered a GTP before the 3.2CL-S came out and it came down to not wanting to take a huge hit in depreciation as I typically keep a car 5-7 years.

As for refinement, drive the Acura and GTP back-to-back after 50k miles and that is where you will see the difference. The Acura will still FEEL new. I know, I've had both American and Japanese cars. There is a difference in the long-term. If you are leasing for 2 years, then it's all down to personal preference.