Nashua_Night_Hawk

Hay Scalbert,

In the pursuit of the better understanding of engine and Intake heat exchnage, I came to find this nice little detective work that ended up in kit.

Could Hope Systems Inc produce such kit?

http://www.performanceprobe.com/inde...insulators.htm

scalbert

That is something I was going to look into and have people test. I already have the basic CAD drawings done since I have to mate up IC to the same location.

ModAddict

I have this one on my son's blown Si.

http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Same as this? http://www.outlawengineering.com/hondajframe.html

Zapata

this would be a great package item you could couple with the Moogen Tstat and rad cap as a "Cooling Package"

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Does anyone know if they do have application for our CL-S engine?

Thanks,

here is the FAQ section:



Following is a list of common questions and answers regarding ThermoBlok spacers. If you have others, please submit them to tech@outlawengineering.com


Do I need to install gaskets with the ThermoBlok spacers, or do they replace the manifold gaskets?

While ThermoBloks can be installed with gaskets, most users elect to apply a "sensor safe" gasket sealant such as Permatex #1 instead of purchasing extra gaskets. If you choose to use gaskets instead, remember that you will need an extra set , one for each side of the spacers.

Won't the additional length/volume added to the intake manifold mess up the power curve (or VRIS valve resonance points)?

The 1/4" (6.35 mm) addition to the runner length will indeed shift the torque curve to the left slightly, about 50 RPM. This has actually been proven to be a benefit as it helps to restore some of the torque lost due to the addition of larger intakes and exhausts. Take a look at the dyno plot on our TECH page (or on your specific vehicle application page) and you will see that although the torque curve is shifted, power is up across the entire power band.

Will ThermoBlok spacers void my warranty?

Although Outlaw Engineering makes no claim regarding the voiding of factory warranties, most dealers take the stance that if the aftermarket part did not contribute to the cause of the failure, it is a moot point. Outlaw Engineering has literally thousands of ThermoBlok spacers in the field and we have never known of any type of failure related to our product. EVER.

Will ThermoBlok spacers cause me to fail an emissions test?

In a word, no. Outlaw Engineering has tested vehicles before and after insulator installations and passed the stringent California State emissions testing. The vehicles that were tested were California emissions vehicles, not federal, and they were inspected by a VERY picky tech inspector at a California authorized Test and Repair facility. The tech would not allow the Hotshot intake on a vehicle even though the law stated that it was acceptable due to the nature of its placement. However, the tech did not notice the intake and throttlebody spacers as they look like stock equipment. Outlaw Engineering has sold many, many sets to other California residents and has never received or otherwise heard of any smog inspection issues in California or any other state. CARB certification is a hurdle that we may pass in the future. However, Outlaw Engineering makes no claim regarding the results of improperly installed insulators.

Are ThermoBlok spacers reusable?

Yes. spacers that are carefully removed and cleaned may be reused indefinitely.

What are the negative side effects of running with ThermoBlok spacers?

None. Seriously. Outlaw Engineering does not know of any drawbacks to the use of properly installed ThermoBlok spacers. In addition to power increases, we have received reports of better gas mileage, better sounding induction noise, and longer life of underhood components such as hoses do to reduced temperature to name a few.

How thick are ThermoBlok spacers? Will they cause interference problems with other components like strut tower bars?

Outlaw Engineering chose a ¼" thickness for the insulating material as striking the best balance between heat blocking characteristics and the need to fit within today's compact engine bays. Each Outlaw Engineering kit contains all the parts and instructions necessary for making the insulators operational on a stock engine. If you have added aftermarket equipment such as a strut tower bar, you will need to determine if the bar will clear the ¼" shifted manifold. If interference does exist, most bars can be slightly modified to fit with bending or spacers.

Do ThermoBlok spacers come in other thicknesses?

ThermoBlok spacers are completely modular and can be stacked into any thickness of ¼" increments. If you want a hugely thick spacer for your monster motor, please contact us.

I don't feel the need to keep the throttlebody cool, can I buy the intake manifold spacers only?

This is a common question made by people that don't fully understand the operation of the system. The throttlebody spacer is not meant to keep the throttlebody cool, but is meant to keep the intake manifold insulated from the heat of the throttlebody. Remember that the throttlebody is heated by engine coolant to keep ice from forming in cold climates. This heat transfers from the throttlebody to the intake so that the intake is now effectively heated from both ends. If we sold intake spacers only, we would only be providing half the system. If you simply must have the manifold spacers only, please contact us.

But I plan to bypass the coolant passage in my throttlebody?

Outlaw Engineering does not feel that bypassing the throttlebody coolant passage is a very elegant solution to throttlebody heat. This often leads to rough idle, increased fuel consumption and possibly higher emissions. Many TB's contain thermosensors that would never reach operating temperature. It is similar to running an old carbureted vehicle with the choke all the time. Also, there truly is the possibility of ice formation in the TB during the colder months without this system. With the addition of an insulator, the vehicle can operate as it was meant to and the intake will remain cooler.

Won't moving the fuel injectors 1/4" mess up the "aim" of the fuel stream and cause driveability and mileage problems? Doesn't the injector have to hit the back of the intake valve perfectly to work properly?

This was an initial concern of Outlaw Engineering also. After investigation, testing, and real world experience, it would seem that injector pulse placement is not as critical as some may feel. For example, most modern 4 valve/cylinder engines have two intake valves and only one injector per cylinder. If you take a look at some of these injectors, there is a "splitter" that breaks the fuel shot into two streams to shoot it in the general direction of the intake valves. Hardly a precision aimed component. There have been racing organizations that successfully move the injectors several inches from the stock position without negative effects. With literally thousands of ThermoBlok spacers in the field, this has not posed a problem.

What about the EGR? Doesn't the hot exhaust gas heat up the intake manifold anyway?

During EGR operation, exhaust gas is fed into the intake during part throttle operation. This is done to dilute the intake charge in order to cool combustion and reduce NOX emissions. The amount of exhaust gas bled into the intake is minimal and does not appreciably heat the intake charge. Additionally, the EGR valve is closed during full throttle and doesn't dilute the intake charge at all. The temperature data on our TECH page speaks for itself.

Now that the manifold is absorbing less heat from the engine, won't my engine run hotter?

The amount of total thermal energy produced by an engine is enormous compared to the amount that is conducted to and radiated by the intake manifold. The vast majority of this heat energy is removed from the engine by the cooling system. If the installation of ThermoBlok spacers causes your engine to run hot, your cooling system is on the verge of complete failure and in immediate need of repair or replacement. Outlaw Engineering has known no instances of increased engine heat do to the installation of spacers.

What about turbo or supercharging?

The tensile strength of the phenolic material is certainly high enough to withstand any level of boost. Remember that the increased pressure of the intake charge is contained within rubber and silicon hoses held with hose clamps. Outlaw Engineering knows of customers that run ThermoBloks in addition to turbo or supercharging.

Can Outlaw Engineering ship overseas?

Certainly! Outlaw Engineering regularly ships to destinations all around the globe. ThermoBloks have gone to places like Australia, Belgium, Hong Kong, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Slovenia, Switzerland and the UK to name a few. Contact us at sales@outlaw-engineering.com for details.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

This came up previously:
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...aw+engineering
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...aw+engineering

dark knight

[QUOTE=Nashua_Night_Hawk]Does anyone know if they do have application for our CL-S engine?

Thanks,




This is a email I received 2 wks ago:


David,

We have produced some prototype parts that would fit the Type S. We're just waiting for a chance to get
someone in to allow us to install and test them. I would estimate about a month till we have a kit ready.

Best regards,
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering


So we just need a volunteer to go over there.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

This is their reply as of yesterday:

We are currently developing a ThermoBlok spacer kit specifically for the CL Type-S. It should be ready in approx. 4-6 weeks. We will keep you posted on its arrival.

Best regards,
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering
www.outlawengineering.com

mattg

nice work nashua.

Ant7701

sweet...bring on more mods!!!!

scalbert

I did a little research into this and decided I would pass on this project.

First and foremost is that there will be an application available soon. I never intended on re-creating the wheel. I only wanted to offer items not available elsewhere. Plus, with the quantity of material I would be looking at my costs and subsequent prices would be higher than what I saw when compared to the 1st gen TL.

Secondly, and we talked this over for some time is the actual benefits on our application. Although this may help to isolate convection heating from the heads through the metal to metal contact, there is another problem. The EGR system routes exhaust gases all through the upper manifold and cover which it probably the biggest heat adder. The exhaust gases are at a higher temp than what would be experienced from the head contact.

Unless you block the EGR valve the manifold will be heating still. In addition, blocking the EGR can cause other potential problems outside of the emissions violations.

Just my $0.02 and our position on development.

typeR

what other problems steve? LS1 guys do this and im thinking of looking at it...just trying to remove heat sources?

02AV6

Steve,

Will this outlawengineering kit will be beneficial for me running without upper manifold (IC)?

RUF87

What about blocking the EGR for track use only? Is there still an issue with damage to the engine or pollution control devices?

Ruf

typeR

thats my main desire