Yep, you can induce oversteer but not in the typical way; I never touched the brake pedal.

No one was around, the air was cool and the car was feeling lively so I was on it some. I was coming up to a turn which is tight but on a four lane road with a median. I could take this turn at about 40 MPH in the BMW so I thought I'd see how the CL-S6SC would handle it with the newer shoes and suspension changes.

I had the speed about 45 MPH (the speed limit actually for the road but most take this turn at 20 and under), turned in late, was on the gas and feeling good. The HLSD was doing its job very well pulling me through the turn harder that I expected. Just after the apex I decided to slow and here is where I made my mistake. I quickly lifted off the throttle and right when I did the back end started coming around.

Well luckily the median was ending and opens into a turning lane. As the back end was sliding I got back on the throttle a little and straightened her out but had to use this turning lane a little. Had the median continued I would probably be buying a new wheel and tire. :o

So, with springs/sways/tires and a hot turn can induce oversteer in this front biased car which is somewhat expected. I just hadn't had the chance to see what the limits were. Now that I know, this could be used to an advantage where needed.

 

Slowing down in a turn always creates traction problems. And that goes double for a car like ours that is so imbalanced.

If you ever watch how F1 drivers drive, they're always off of the brake right before the turn starts.

 

Knowing the limits is good as there are times when we might want to upset the balance to get the car to turn in more.

I was pleased with the way it responded to the corrections. Had I not been trying to hold the inside of the turn and had drifted to the outside, there would never have been a close call with the median.

 

YUP!!!!! FWD cars you must NEVER EVER EVER lift off the throttle when turning the vehicle unless you know you have room to manuver! Just gotta power through it.....glad you are ok......


although the above is more for understeer......

oversteer with this car for me has always been the right turn and laying on the throttle.....never the opposite like you....that is laying off the throttle.

 

With the auto, I did something very similar with the VSA switched off when I was rounding the corner and some debris was in the way and I blipped the throttle...I also kinda new it might could happen, just didn't quite expect it to happen like it did. It certainly wasn't gradual, it just immediately went and honestly scared the shi+ outta me...

 

actually now it makes sense......you were on the throttle and the suspension was compressed.....as you let off it the load on the suspension release causing oversteer.

Perhaps one of the road racers....maximized, 1sicklex would comment?

 

Actually, for a FWD car, this is what you want to occur on the track. It is somewhat controllable to induce oversteer in a FWD vehicle in this manner.

A properly track set up FWD will exhibit throttle lift oversteer.

 

Very interesting... At the WCM when we did some nice twisties at Crater Lake, I was braking right before a sharp turn and then I step on the gas to get through the turn. Is this ideal for our car? Because I felt like I just don't have enough control when I do that. (could be poor tires.. Toyo FZ4's)

Also, now I'm driving a RWD car also, can someone shed some light on how I should be taking turnings during spirited driving?

 

oversteer....yea, of course, i agree. Just trying to talk through why it is letting off the throttle caused oversteer

 

Seems you are turning correctly. You have your brake zone while you are still moving in a straight line. Then you accelerate through your apex. You have fz24's on your sk2? brave......

 

With the FWD CL you should brake before entering the turn and power out of it. All slowing should be done before entering the turn.

With the RWD S2000 you have more flexibility. You can brake later and trail brake into the turn without getting too out of whack. Then get back on the throttle and use it to help steer through the turn.

 

So long as the front tires have enough traction, oversteer in FWD is ok - you just hit the throttle and your front end will pull the rear into line.

 

FZ4 on the CLS... Kumo MX on the S2000..

 

I got my car to oversteer too, Cool isn't it I only had sways, & worn Toyo T1's on stock rims.

 

Cool......you know what they say....."Oversteer is when the passenger is scared, understeer is when the driver is scared."

 

So in a RWD setup, for road racing/auto-x, in order to prevent massive oversteer, whats the best thing to do? I've already done a few 180's and 270's in my car since I got it... Still trying to figure her out....

 

back in July, i had the coolest autox experience...the weather was actually quite hot and humid, and i was on my 5th and 6th runs, so my brakes were shot to hell...i was sliding all over the place in the turns, but it was actually good practice in how to recover the car with VSA off

 

It's because of the weight transfer. When you give the car throttle the weight shifts to the rear. When you lift the throttle and or brake, it puts the majority of the force on the front wheels. This makes the rear end light and causes the car to rotate.

 

That's normal charater of FWD.

 

better way to make car more inclined to oversteer.

stiffer rear, softer front!!!
i have the car setup this way, and the only two times i lost traction was when oversteer came about. however, you still have to release throttle a bit to get it to come out, or just take an increasing angle turn at a fast, steady pace.
i think our cars do much better when they oversteer, especially since VSA can control it alot better.
when it understeers, there is simply too much mass to be corrected(extreme conditions). in the gs4, the tail comes out almost every time, and vsc can easily correct this problem, which makes sense since not much is required to get it back on track. the one time i understeered with it, vsa had to work very hard to fix it. it almost couldnt but luckily i was going slow enough for it to recover just in time.
skid controls or not, i prefer oversteer most of the time. to me, its more controllable, even if i lack lsd.

 

Actually a front driver is much more forgiving with drop throttle oversteer than rear or all wheel drive. Older Porsche 911s were very dangerous as the weight of the engine would whip the rear end around. I have spun every non-front wheel drive car I have auto crossed. I did beat my buddy's best time in his Porsche 968 after I spun with him in the car though. Scalbert, what sways are you running? I would like to have the car rotate a bit more at the limit. This car actually handles nicely with CT springs/Konis and stickey tires.

 

good learning experience scalbert

i've taken a little bend in the highway at 145 back when i had stock suspension and still stock tires, scariest shit ever, i think the car could handle it but the tires felt like they were given out

 

No VSA for me to help, just the right foot and both hands. But I agree, the car is ultimately more controllable when you can induce oversteer.

In stock form, particularly on my old '01 CL-S, the significant understeer might have limited the ability to get to a point to where oversteer could be induced. There would have been too much front end plow to get enough angle on the steering to controllably shift to oversteer.

What I have found now is that with the current setup the effect of the HLSD is more pronounced. There is a more noticeable shift in the turn in when throttle is applied. If not expecting it this feels like you are getting out of control. But staying in the throttle keeps you pulling through the turn very well.

I need to get down to Turner Field for one of the auto-x events to test this on a tight course. I know it would work decently on a larger, more open, road course like Road Atlanta. But on a tight auto-x this oversteer might be harnessed for some benefit.

 

Just the Comptech springs and sways and the ES100 tires; I plan on changing out the shocks soon.

I do feel the HLSD is helping to get the car to the point of being able to rotate; adding with the other components.

 

Yes definitely. I was on a nice long tight off ramp last night just taking the car to where it understeered and then letting off the gas. Didn't quite oversteer but tightened the line very nicely. It's very controlable. (wife didn't think so though) Seems like the LSD really allows the car to bite when you hammer it. I've never been able to get oversteer on really tight 180 type auto-x corners but larger ones you can. Feels like a bigger rear sway would be the ticket. What does the "H" stand for in HLSD. Haldex? I thought it was a torsen.

 

Helical...

 

Ah. Thank you.

 

Wife (ex), girlfriend-- no one seems to care to be a passenger during any amount of experimentation or play...Go figure!

 

BINGO! I've got a video about this very subject...it's all animated, and shows a formula 1 racer's car as a box with four wheels. The wheels that have more traction glow yellow. You guys are really limiting yourselves with the brake OR gas. The key is both: gas+brakes...It's hard to do, and if you will look sometime, you will notice the brake and gas in a formula 1 car are very close together so the driver can step on both pedals with one foot. It's all about the balance of the car. Learn how to control the balance and you'll whip everyone else around the corners.

 

Yes. Sometimes she is ammused. When I first got the springs on I took her around a fast corner and she said it was like being on a roller coaster. Usually doesn't care for it though.

 

I don't agree with this in a fwd, totally nose-heavy car...Braking deep into a corner towards the apex, or just short of there, doesn't seem to flow the car correctly at all--even if you are on the throttle to some extent or not...Maybe it's just me or my lack of improved braking, or the fact I have an auto TL-S and no HLSD, but that's my thoughts...Maybe I'm lost...

 

If you guys want to learn more about this, I would reccomend the book "Going Faster:Mastering the Art of Race Driving" by the Skip Barber Racing School and Danny Sullivan. It describes in vast detail, why and what is happening to your car in these types of situations. You can get it at Barnes and Noble pretty cheap

 

On my FWD Max, I had the best results doing the majority of the heavy braking on the straights and then "trail braking" into the turn. It would make the car rotate, which meant faster laps for me. If I did all my braking at once, the car would understeer very badly.

 

Many of the smaller Honda DOHC VTEC FWD sports cars have had this trait, especially the Integra Type R. You can't induce it as much on heavier FWD cars, but glad that you learned how to recover. It's a good "feature" to have if you have to correct your line as you lift the throttle to whip your tail a bit and then press the gas on it to get your tail back in line. ;-)

 

guys iv never really taken the car to limits yet hows the overall handling on the car, the turning radius is weak but hows the balance and feel on the turns regardless of the horrible fwd weight balance