Moog-Type-S

Since we all know now for sure that the CL is dead, and we know that at times ACURA has read this board, why not post our opinions as to why we think the CL died. Such as possibly:
Conservative design/shape
Bad Transmissions (Auto)
Bad Marketing
ETC.

Post here...let's let 'em know....
Maybe we can be a good focus group for the new '05/'06 CL?!?!

Slimey

I would have paid $3 - 5K more if the CL-S came with

• real Z rated tires in a size that supports replacing them with good tires (what is up with this weird 215/50 size?)
• lighter and nicer wheels, maybe 18"
• stiffer body/less roll (better sways a la Comptech/Neuspeed)
• slightly lowered, adjustable shocks
• better headers (a la Comptech)
• better intake (too noisy for 'average' consumer?)
• dual climate zones and full power seat for the passenger
• tilt/telescope steering wheel

I would have paid up to $10K more if it came with all of the above + supercharger/turbocharger.

I think the CL is a great car. The gearbox and power train is really pretty nice, and FWD is not a problem for me. I have no need for a rear-wheel drive car, but AWD/4WD may be nice as an option.

I never even considered the automatic transmission so that whole issue is really a non-issue to me. Of course, a SMG type transmission would be nice, but that would probably sky-rocket the selling price to a silly level.

The Type S could have been made to have a little more 'S' appeal like many have done on this board. A full Comptech Packaged CL-S would have covered the bases and I'd have paid the premium for that.

jimcol711

personally, i think the CL was offically doomed once the tranny problems became so public. also, Acura has a history or crappy crappy marketing and advertising....the commercials for the CL were ALL horrible...the one with the windy road and the couple buying the house and he sas "we'll take it" is mediocre at best. acura totally dropped the ball when they COMPLETELY misjudged the audience for the CL-S. 90% of the members here are between 20 and 30.....most 25 or under. Acura definately did not market the CL-S to that demographic. they need to get some MUCH better advertising with some flashy shit going on and some liscensed music, something that rocks! i hate to say it, but Acura needs to take some cues from infiniti/nissan. they have awesome commercials for their stuff. even the new max commercial is cool, even though the car is an ugly boat.

i would be willing to bet that had acura done commercials for the CL-S somewhere along the lines of the Mitsubishi eclipse "days gone by" commercial, they wouldve sold a few thousand more units.

i think their main problem is just not knowing who to market the car to and change your advertising scheme accordingly.

Slimey

I'm not sure the demographics of this board accurately represents the buying demographic of the car. FWIW, I would guess that most Acura CL owners are between 35 and 55, or 30 - 50, and not <30.

jimcol711

well, i still have to disagree with you, but i think it would be VERY interesting to see acura's records of the age of the owners. even that may be skewed as well as we have quite a few "silver-spoon" spoiled rich kids whose 45 year old parents buy the car for their 18 year old son. every CL ive ever seen on the roads, here in wisconsin, and in NY when i lived there, was always driven by someone definately under 40, but more typically, under 30. i think acura needs to do more demographic research and start to realize that there are ALOT of 20-25 year olds pulling down enough cash to buy a 30k vehicle, or at least be able to LEASE one. i think they have said their dempgraphic for the CL and CL-S is a 50 year old man, empty nester, making 80+ thousand per year.

Moog-Type-S

another item:
I would have paid at least 1k more if they got rid of the damn rattles!!!!

hughesne

I think the average age of owners is also older than 20-30. Now, if we're talking Type S owners, then yes, 20-30 is right, but CL-P is a "bigger" market. I have a type S and am 25.

123456SPEED

It's frustrating cause there's so much great about the CL-S and Acura coupes. The CL was doomed from day one from being a bigger success. The G1 was not much more than an Accord and it needed to have a 6cylinder/manual shift from day one.
It followed in the Legend's big footsteps and never could compare, the Legend was a huge success, it put Acura on the map. The 2001 CL was a major improvement over the unfortunate G1 CL, but with no shifter and lack-luster style it was doomed in the sport coupe market. The CL never had the rep and style and features of the Legends it replaced.

But... I love my 6 speed CL, the shifter and engine are wonders, too bad the body style was not at the same level. The G1 CL was a mistake like the Vigor and the numerous TLs before that.
The CLS was a brave attempt to save the CL but in the fickle coupe market the CL name already had the rep of a gussied up Accord, and never lost it. It's sad that Acura could reach such high success witht the legend Coupe and lose it on the CL.

BUTT! - I realize Acura needed to cut the cost to sell more, the Legends were at $42k in 95 and were not selling either. So to cut cost, we get US made, less quality, and cheaper corporate styling. The G1 CL was an insult and most Legend Coupe buyers never came back.

ALSO- ACURA CLEAN UP THE BAD DEALERS!!! if I go to another brand that will be the main reason, not beacuse you're rebadging Accords.

long enough?? I've been frustratred since 1995

Scooter

Age poll done here from a while back:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...&highlight=age

ComptechType-S

This is what i would have liked in/on my CL-S.

fog lights that match the HID's
a sun roof that opens all the way
18" wheels with better rubber
a factory underboby kit
seats that fold down (who needs a friggin ski pass through?)
Less weight (this car is a pig)
the nav system thats in the TSX (if you've see it you'll know what i mean)

Things i could live without

All the damn squeeks and rattles. (nuff said!!)
That office tray thingy (who uses that anyway?)
ski pass through (i dont ski!?!)
pwr passenger seat (weight reduction would be better)
crappy a$$ bose system (there are better out there that work better and cost less)
auto down pass side mirror (its cool, but if weight is reduced.. c-ya)
17" easily scratched wheels. (they look OK but are not worth the headaches)

and thats all i got to say bout that! (for now)

cusdaddy

Almost every CL I see recently is driven by an 40+ woman with a few older men thrown in for good measure. I NEVER see young people driving the CL other than the CL meets

(not that there's anything wrong with older people driving the CL)

Six Shifter

... and your problem with this is (at least we can spell "demographic") All seriousness ... I don't believe ACURA expected the number of under 40/35/30 yr old buyers that this car attracted. Regardless of the affluence (yours or your parents), the car is and has always been targetted towards the older audience, since most of the younger buyers historically have been happy to trick out/rice/mod their accords/civics/preludes. The original G1 Legends came out with an advertising gimmic which stated "Genuine Mercedes Replacement Part". The excitement that the mid-90's CL-X generated turned into a major disappointment when the G1 CL came out (Genuine Honda Accord Upgrade). The G2 CL was designed to have more of the styling cues of the TL (a nod to the original Legend Coupe's styling cues from the Legend Sedan) and therefore be more identifyable to the TL and therefore to Acura than to any Honda. My vote for the demise of the CL, in addition to the aforementioned problems, lies solely due to the fact that this car was "Made in America". If this were built on the Island, many of the fit and finish problems that many have experienced wouldn't have taken away from the pleasure of ownership. Lets hope that, if there is another Sport/Luxury Coupe in Acura's future, that it isn't built in Ohio or any other American production plant and gets back to the land where quality/fit/finish are a matter of pride.

Shawn S

I’m not worried about a “next car wish list” until my odometer reads 100,000-Miles or more.

Hopefully, when that day comes Acura will be selling a 300+ HP 4WD 6-Spd Coupe.

Shawn S

cusdaddy

My CL Wish-list:

-More exciting and sportier exterior styling - 18" rims, lower ride height, a wider lower appearance, etc...
-Less Rattles
-MUCH better Tranny
-Wider, sportier tires
-Better stereo
-AWD
-More HP (can always use more HP) - 280 would be nice
-REAL fog lights
-Slightly tighter suspension

GreenMonster

I have to agree w/ Mr. Slimey.

Most would agree that the RSX is marketed for a younger crowd then the CL. Here's the demographic that Acura is pitching it's RSX to:

27 years old
College degree
$60,000 household income [1]

I would think that the CL would be marketed towards an older demographic. One that I'm probably part of.


[1] http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/acura...s(r)_text.html

runnerX

The major problem with Acura is their marketing teams. These people fail to understand what loyal Honda/Acura owners really want, fail to target the right group of people, and they product styles are as blank as the Honda Accords. Some of my friends actually mistaken my CL-S as an Accord coupe. I do not find any excitement in my CL-S' styling at all, but I do find the good use of stronger engine. Acura cars should have more upscale styling and Acura should be a bit more rational. Acuras should be true luxury cars rather than somewhere between true luxury cars and Accords. PLEASE make the gap between Honda and Acura wider!!!

jimcol711

[QUOTE]Originally posted by greenmonster
[B]I have to agree w/ Mr. Slimey.

Most would agree that the RSX is marketed for a younger crowd then the CL. Here's the demographic that Acura is pitching it's RSX to:

27 years old
College degree
$60,000 household income [1]

I would think that the CL would be marketed towards an older demographic. One that I'm probably part of.
[QUOTE]

where does acura come up with that shit??? if i was making 60k, i sure as fuck wouldnt even consider an RSX. at the time i bought my CL-S i was EASILY able to afford it, as well as all my other bills on a mid-40s salary..... how can they possibly think that you need to be making 60k to afford a 21k car??? and id be embarrassed to drive an RSX at that age. 27?? sheesh...that car should be aimed more toward the 16-22 year olds with a part time job and help from mommy and daddy.

TypeS_boi

I don't have too many gripes about what the CL-s could have been or what it should have been offered with. First off, they did offer a Comptech performance package so scratch that off the list cuz they knew some people would be interested in it.
Trannies, forget about it...we all know they're shit. I would have liked to see more distinct styling, better rims but other than that, the car is solid. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it cuz I haven't done any research but what about factoring in the War and screwed up economy? A lot of people lost jobs across the US. I was making an ok $50K and then boom, no job, no more spending. I myself was ready to trade in my other car for an MDX.
As far as marketing, they could have done a better job. Look how they targeted the ricers with the Civic commercial, I thought that was hot!
I guess when you start throwing in wider tires, lower profile, sport shocks, real fogs...etc, etc. You're looking at BMW prices already. But I think Acura gave us a car that was worth the money at the time of the first CL-S release. Of course we're bitchin cuz we're seeing Nissan and other car makers bringing ut the power. Acura isn't stupid, they know what's going on. I'm sure they're hearing but the question is...are you suits and engineers listening???

123456SPEED

It's true, I think the vast majority of G1 CL buyers were women, and also for the CLS, the automatics. Everytime I was at the dealer looking at the CLS, the only only CL shoppers were working women. I think Acura now appeals more to women, and Nissan more for men?
Even a co-worker who drives a 6 speed legend Coupe did not know much about the CL or that it now had a 6 speed. The CL reputation was already set 8 years ago.
Like when my Mom saw my CLS she said it was pretty, but when my 20 year old nephew drove it he was only talking about how fast it was!

Slimey

I meant from the factory. I know that some dealer's have done this, but a fully Comptech'ed CL off the lot is a rarity.

...and by the way, I love this car. If I nitpick, I can always find something to fix or make better -- in any product. I hate to see this thread turn into another Acura bitch session. I think that Moog had a nice idea to begin with.

Moog-Type-S

I'll speak for myself, but I think most of us were not blown-away by the CL's great looks, but rather the price, interior, and engine is what brought us to buy it. I would bet it would still be a contender and not dead if it had a more edgy styling and RWD.

Why is ACURA so conservative with their styling compared to Lexus, Infiniti, etc...??? If they can style the NSX so well, why not the rest of the line????

And do we really need every car in the line-up to have matching grilles????? I mean who is ACURA kidding..they are not BMW.
MEMO to ACURA: GET CREATIVE!!!!

TypeS_boi

Slimey, with your wishlist that's well over 40K out the dealer! If it would have came out like that, not many of us would have been able to afford it..I think? But if you have the 10K why not put everything on your car and pretend that's how it came? But seriously tho, I know what you're saying and I agree w/ you on some things. This thread should be changed to "Wishlist for our next gen CL-S but keep it under 35K?"

acuraman32cl

they just copied the tl and made it a 2 door. they needed more power for it to sell as a coupe, not just a 2 door sedan. they should of had 260 only, no type s or a stock 260 and then type s of 290-300. we call know that can be achieved with headers and a cai. the styling is a bit bland too. oh can bad marketing, horrible marketing. old people want sedans for their kids, unless they are very wealthy, but then they would buy a 330, xk8 etc......bad demographics

Aegean_Blue6

Value has a lot to do with the appeal of the CL-S, so I agree that adding too much more to the feature list (and cost) might have hurt sales even further. That said,there's a couple of things I agree could have been done easily that would have made the car even better:

Stiffer sways - there's a world of difference in cornering, and no real difference to ride quality, but it's just a thicker bar.

Headers - with the HP wars going on, why did Acura design a fantastic engine but leave 32 HP on the floor?

Wider sunroof - come on, why not?

Fold-down seats - can't be too pricey

Better tires - the squealing gets old after a while

More adjustable range on the seat height - I'm 6'2 and my head is almost at the top with the seat at it's lowest

tilt/telescoping wheel - a little pricey, but needed for the luxo market

An optional 6-spd from day 1 - I wouldn't have bought mine without it

Things that are OK in my book

Wheels - these can get pricey real quick, and no two people will agree on size and style. Leave it to people's tastes afternarket

Intake - same thing, some people like 'em loud, some don't want the noise, and it's easy to install this one.

Stereo - a bit more bass would be good, but for those it really matters to they'll personalize it anyway.

Styling - I've actually gotten a number of compliments on it, and if it's not a cop magnet that's just fine with me

I cross-shopped this with the G35c 6M, and for the extra utility of the usable trunk I'll take the $6K price difference, mod it a bit, and use the rest for something else that's fun. This car is a blast, too bad more people won't get to find that out once they're gone.

Slimey

$40K is for the full deal with supercharger or turbocharger. For the non FI upgrades, I just see increasing the price slightly ($3K). I do see your point though. I agree that one of the selling points is value, especially when compared to the rest of the market.

...and I could still afford it at $40K because I am in the 'proper' age and income bracket that the car was designed for.

RandyMax

I don't think the tranny issue has too much to do with it. TL's sales hasn't been affected too much.

I see the followings as the ultimate reasons:

1. 03 Accord V6 coupe. Why pay more for the CL?
2. There's just no reason to redesign the CL; it's just a North-America-only coupe with dismal sales number.

GreenMonster

If you price out a V6 Accord 6spd with options comparible to those on the CLS 6spd, you'll find that there is not that much difference $$$wise. You might be suprised at the markup over MSRP that some dealers were/are? quoting for the new Accord 6spd. With all that factored in the CLS is a bargain.

For the extra $$, I'm happy that I'll have a car that's not like the multitudes of Accord coupes that will be soon roaming the freeways.

Now back to the original question:

I'd like to see more HP, in the form of some type or ComptechUSA factory package. This is very unlikely, as I don't think that Acura would let their $90,000 flagship vehicle w/ 290hp be outgunned by a $40,000 CLS w/ BMW M3 type power via a SC 3.2 or 3.5 engine. Who, knows maybe a redesigned NSX is in the works, with a M3 class CLS right behind.

I like the idea of folding rear seats.

I kinda like the "bland" styling of the CLS, but it could be a little more exciting (from consertive haonda/acura ??).

I ain't gonna mention a V8 or RWD, 'cause that's not what honda/acura wants to be.

Oh, and I'd like a windshield wiper fluid level indicator, just like the Canadian models have

Rod

Like most people have already pointed out, I think that the main problem for the CL was its marketing, or lack thereof. And this may be due to Honda being so conservative and its tendency to keep quiet about new vehicle designs. I mean, many people still have no idea what a CL is, they think it's an Accord. They should have started advertising for it way before it was released with flashier commercials, a la Nissan/Infiniti. At the time it was released, the CL was a class leader (and probably still is), this could have easily been emphasized in any advertisements, but instead Honda kept their mouths shut up until a couple months before releasing the CL and then they use some boring ass commercials to try and promote it. They really needed a stronger effort aimed at getting the CL's name/image out. And the fact that they didn't release a 6-speed initially made things worse since all the magazines love manual cars and would be doing comparisons of the auto CL to manual cars. Think about it, if the CL had been hyped more and had offered a 6-speed initially, it would have been all over the magazine covers and would have fared much better against the 330 and such. While this wouldn't have made a difference to most of us here, it would have made a difference to the general public since the majority of people are followers and no matter what they say allow the media to change their perceptions on everything. Their biggest screw up of course has to be misjudging the CL's actual market, but shit happens.

I'm sure the POS tranny, crappy stock tires, and other things that could have been done better have little to do with the demise of the current CL since most of them only came to widespread public knowledge after the CL was already doomed...I guess it was doomed from the start.

I also doubt its styling had anything to do with its poor sales. I've actually only received compliments on its styling and like it myself. Styling probably isn't the most important thing to most people buying cars anyway. I mean, look at the new Accords, they look like ass, but you know they're going to sell extremely well.

1SICKLEX

The CL is a good car but for 30k in the ERA OF SUVs only dedicated Honda owners really knew about the car and were willing to buy it. I also think that what plagues some Acura owners is what plagues Honda, marketing and THINKING a car is one thing when in actuality it is something else. The HONDA board DICTATES styling and INSIST that ALL Hondas and Acuras look alike. Seriously. This is the company way of thinking. Quite frankly, it works. Honda is the #2 maker in Japan and considering they only have a handful of cars/trucks here, they sell HELLA cars/trucks.

1. Styling. No one knew what the hell a G35 is (or Infiniti) and they are getting HELLA traffic cause of how this car looks (the coupe).
2. Name. If it was a Legend, people would have bought it on G.P. People buy FWD v-6 Impalas and Monte Carlos cause of the name. It's why people think Benz is the most reliable car and it is not. It's why people buy 323 BMWs. Name.
3. Problems. The car has issues. You have a tranny forum. How many people that have this car have had this problem that never visited this board?

I cannot blame marketing. It's not their fault.

What really encites me is that this board has HELLA enthusiasts and Acura is basically IGNORING them. Hell, Toyota too. Both boards have quite a few people that have bought a 350Z for instance, either as a replacement or 2nd car.

I said Hella like 4 times

Black CL-S 4-Life

haiduc

i think that many of you would not have cared about half the issues as much if the CL-S had come with the V6 and RWD mated to a 6 speed standard.

that is getting more to a purists car tho. the CL does what it is meant to very well. it delivers lots of luxury and performance for a nominal price.

the CL-S 6spd was introduced large in part becuase of this board i am sure.

agreed, the marketing demographic did suck, but you have to think about this....... of the CL-S would have come out with RWD and a 6spd in 01, would more of the mass public have embraced it? i know that sport coupes are a segmet favorite now, but was it that way in 01?

i would personally love to see the next generation CL be a G35 power beater and a 3 series outhandler.


(i have my own gripes about the first gen..... 150hp 4 cylinder? wtf were they thinking?)

123456SPEED

What's HELLA?
Anyway, I did read the transmission problem had a big part in helping bring this cancellation. With the already low sales, the transmission 'recall' was killing any meager profits made on the low sales volumes. It was just not profitable to keep supporting a car with the bad rep, low sales, and stiffer coupe competition. I'm sure the factory capacity could be better used to make cars that sell and provide profits.
I also read Honda may discount any CLs left by NOT offering the extended coverage on the auto tranny. Hmm.

SLY1TYPES

To comment on the age of CL owner, I would think that it would be late 20's to mid 30's. Most Cl owners probley don't have kids either, because if they did they would probley go for the TL. I know that most of the people on this site are in thier 20's, but all of us are enthusiests that really love cars!

The only reason I bought my car is the bad-ass 6-spd, not the styling, and the G35Coupe was not out yet.

'03
6-Spd Type S

DaBoomVatz

I think you guys have made some really good pionts! I bought the car because it had everything I wanted right at my price range and I have never regretted it. Despite the trans problem everyone has had my car has been perfect. I know when I go out there to start it I won't have a problem. My CLS is very reliable, comfortable, quick, and has clean looking lines. I get a lot of compliments on my car. Yea the paint suck and people complain about rattles but you get what you pay for. You would be hard pressed to find a car similar to ours size, hp, ammenities in our price range.
It sucks they discontinued our cars but if they are listening they will bring it back and it'll probably be better then ever.

Shawn S

Yea, I wouldn’t have had issues because I wouldn’t have bought one.
If Acura goes RWD it will lose me and TONS of other customers in the “snow” states.

They should go 4WD next, and keep the price under 40K.

Shawn S

I am RobG

give me a stock bodykit and better tires and im' happy. Mainly a stock bodykit. I would NOT have minded RWD. My car sucked ass in the snow anyway so it wouldn't have made a difference. At least then i could've had more fun.

PavDog

In addition to the above list..
* Put the frigging fog/driving lights back. (canned in '03)
* Better (ie: NOT MICHELIN) tires.
* I liked the '03 wheels.. have to wait and see if they will be legacy members of the "scratched rims club" though.
* option for woodgrain.
* *DEFINITELY* satellite radio of some kind
* LARGER engine, at least for the Type-S. Ideally the 3.5
(btw: I've read that Rick Case has this as an aftermarket option!)
* No Bose Blows speakers. Maybe JBL, Infinity or something else.
* Auto-up/close for power windows & sunroof (keylock controlled)
* A really nice to have would be opening rear 1/4 windows--ala, older accord & civic coupes. Maybe even power!
* And stop that freakin rattle from the drivers side dash--about where the turn signal/flasher relays are. My Accord had the exact same rattle and it DROVE ME FRIGGING NUTS!

And last but not least, the TRANS. After driving the car for a few months, I really wonder if a lot of the transmission problems are caused by the "computer-assisted" part. Specifically, when it tries to keep the car smooth-shifting. I think, at least for the Type-S folks, that with the overall stiffer suspension that a harsher shifting transmission wouldn't bother us. In fact it'd probably be desirable. But I wonder if the tranx issues might be primarily caused by the shifting thing.

Hopefully Acura comes out with a *NEW*ly redesigned CL!!!

-k

TypeS_boi

I wanted folding rear seats and a dvd based navi that could actually play regular dvds.

jimcol711

there are laws about making dvd players that are viewable in the front seat of a vehicle. thats most likely a major reason you dont have that option

Slimey

People keep mentioning the auto tranny issue as the 'curse of the 2nd gen CL'. If this is so, how come it hasn't cursed the Odyssey, Accord, or TL, which all supposedly have the same rate of problems.