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I remember 2ndgentl having a similar starter issue with his Aasco LWFW.
His pictures practically mirror the ones of your 'old' CM FW above:
Originally Posted by 2ndgentl
Ugh, so apparently I need to send my flywheel back to Aasco so they can put a new ring gear on it. My starter has been grinding up against it more and more and I've already tried another starter and the same thing happens.
so just my luck, with the updated fw the trans case won't sit flat against the block. with the clutch out the case goes on fine. seems like that depth adjustment on the ring gear is actually added thickness to the back of fw, which now made the clutch and fw assy hit the inside of the case. I even pulled the whole motor out, removed and retorqued the fw, then tried installing the trans with the motor tilted up on the fw side, and it didn't change anything. prob going have to return this fw and try to get my money back.
^
How much of a difference would show with a flat edge at the yellow line?
I measured at least .030" ring gear to ring gear with both fw flat on their backs. Doesn't seem like a lot, but its enough to keep the case slightly cracked on the bottom.
For verification purposes, I also put the old fw, clutch and pressure plate back and the trans case sits flush as it should. I even double checked the new p/n against the old one and its the same.
old fw FW-028-AL
date code 0619 FW-028-AL date code 0622
Starting to think i should try to talk with Clutchmasters. See if perhaps there is an updated pressure plate to match this revised fw design. Meanwhile the car is down...
Yeah, I'd def. get on CM about your measurement data result comparison and test fit findings.
Maybe they will next day on new FW-028-AL.
It's interesting that FW-028-AL is interchangeable between the 03-07 3.0 Accord / 04-06 3.2L TL & the 01-04 3.2L CL.
When I look at the OEM FW LUK specs., on rockauto, for the Accord / CL-S6 DMF062 & the TL 04-06 DMF063 everything is the same except for the flywheel diameter. Was wondering if you thought maybe that small difference had an impact on the starter issue?
Yeah, I'd def. get on CM about your measurement data result comparison and test fit findings.
Maybe they will next day on new FW-028-AL.
It's interesting that FW-028-AL is interchangeable between the 03-07 3.0 Accord / 04-06 3.2L TL & the 01-04 3.2L CL.
When I look at the OEM FW LUK specs., on rockauto, for the Accord / CL-S6 DMF062 & the TL 04-06 DMF063 everything is the same except for the flywheel diameter. Was wondering if you thought maybe that small difference had an impact on the starter issue?
Hey Zeta, idk what to think anymore. I too had noticed that interchage when looking up the fw part number on the CM site. But, didn't really think about it. FWIW we're talking about a performance manufacturer who has been in business for quite a long time. I would hope they did the proper research, measurements and test fitting. Esp, since they indicate 'fitment verified' for acura CL.
For reference I did find the box for the old fw and the part number is 08028-HDFF-A, which is the kit with fw, fx350 clutch and HD pressure plate. I don't think that makes a difference though because the clutch and pressure plate hasn't changed and the fw p/n are the same.
In any case I sent a message to CM from their site and now patiently waiting a response.
Emailed CM my initial photos and ended up talking to a rep over the phone. The guy seemed very skeptical and kept trying to talk over me. Basically said my pics weren't done right, the gear differences didn't mean anything and that they hadn't revised the flywheel. Also asked if I had made sure the input shaft slides through the pilot bearing.
A few pointless comments later, the guy essentially said I needed to support the back of the fw on the part that bolts agains the crank. Then lay a straight edge on top to see the height difference.
Just sent him these couple pics. new fw on input shaft old fw left, new fw right
^
Evident differences, I've seen, with the pics you have provided thus far are clear:
1) the 2nd picture above, in overall height distance displayed by the flat piece across both FW's
2) the new chamfered ring gear edge on the 06/22 FW purchase versus non-chamfered ring gear on the old.
619rcr just a minor thing to consider, the only thing I would suggest is to retake the 2nd picture, if possible, and include / show the flat edge of the FW 's resting on the even table surface using the same format.
That way Mr. Skeptical, at CM, won't have a point to 'needle d!ck' you over whether there is something propping up the right side one over the left side one.
Get what I'm saying?
Good Luck!
^
Evident differences, I've seen, with the pics you have provided thus far are clear:
1) the 2nd picture above, in overall height distance displayed by the flat piece across both FW's
2) the new chamfered ring gear edge on the 06/22 FW purchase versus non-chamfered ring gear on the old.
619rcr just a minor thing to consider, the only thing I would suggest is to retake the 2nd picture, if possible, and include / show the flat edge of the FW 's resting on the even table surface using the same format.
That way Mr. Skeptical, at CM, won't have a point to 'needle d!ck' you over whether there is something propping up the right side one over the left side one.
Get what I'm saying?
Good Luck!
Hey Zeta,
Agreed. For reference this was the traffic from today:
CM - Do you see any noticeable height differences on the flywheels when you compare them side by side? From the photos they look the same but you have them there in your hands to compare with a straight edge.
Me - I am not at home at the.moment. The back seemed slightly thicker on the new one. But, I did not try to measure the back. Another side profile pic
2) the new chamfered ring gear edge on the 06/22 FW purchase versus non-chamfered ring gear on the old.
One more update on this fw mess, just held the two flywheels back to back and noted that my old flywheel
does indeed have the ring gear on backwards. This is likely the reason I have starter grinding issues and the original reason for my ordering another flywheel...
Still doen't solve my issue, but I sent more pics to CM nonetheless.
^
Great catch on the flipped ring gear.
1) Could you not just unfasten the yellow ring gear 'cap' screw bolts and flip the ring gear on the 'old' FW?
2) Just another observation, is it the light or does it look like the 'old' FW has a 'step' transition manufactured
beginning at the tip of the purple arrow leading to the flat part?
Compared to the red line on the 'new' FW, where it is a straight 'cone' leading to the flat part?
Whatever they changed it adds up to that difference of .030" you found.
^
Great catch on the flipped ring gear.
1) Could you not just unfasten the yellow ring gear 'cap' screw bolts and flip the ring gear on the 'old' FW?
2) Just another observation, is it the light or does it look like the 'old' FW has a 'step' transition manufactured
beginning at the tip of the purple arrow leading to the flat part?
Compared to the red line on the 'new' FW, where it is a straight 'cone' leading to the flat part?
Whatever they changed it adds up to that difference of .030" you found.
Its probably just the dull, dirty paint on the used part that makes the back seem so different. Although the new does seem slightly more kicked out.
I'm not sure if the gear is only held by those 3 bolts. But, the same thought had actually crossed my mind. To be honest I'm more concerned with why the new one doesn't fit.
I'm also getting really annoyed with the CM rep's attitude.
Long story short I got a Return Authorization for the ring gear issue. However nothing was offered for the new part fitment. The CM rep insisted that he'd never heard of a case not fitting. So. I told him I will just send both parts and they can measure, evaluate and compare the two however they need to. (This is all at my cost btw).
Took a short break between working long hours to loosely bolt the OBX turbo hot pipes together. They don't seem too bad for what I paid. The flange is only a T3, but that should enough for a gt3582 <10psi?
Took a short break between working long hours to loosely bolt the OBX turbo hot pipes together. They don't seem too bad for what I paid. The flange is only a T3, but that should enough for a gt3582 <10psi?
Did a google search for this header setup and could not find anything. Any tips? Loving the thread btw.
On side note be careful with google searches that result in really low prices. There are scammers out there that target your cookies, then show you a pic of what you where looking for at a sketchy site. The check out process is just a request to transfer money for an non specific item with a random number. Even if you use paypal, they can simply provide a tracking number for a shipment that shows delivered. Kinda crazy, but I avoided a transaction like that when originally looking for turbo kits on google.
On side note be careful with google searches that result in really low prices. There are scammers out there that target your cookies, then show you a pic of what you where looking for at a sketchy site. The check out process is just a request to transfer money for an non specific item with a random number. Even if you use paypal, they can simply provide a tracking number for a shipment that shows delivered. Kinda crazy, but I avoided a transaction like that when originally looking for turbo kits on google.
Some really solid advice right there. I love watching people waste scammer's time. I do it myself when they call me.
If you want to have some fun with an Indian scammer, just say 'benchode' or 'moderchode' to them. It usually results in them getting mad, and gives me a laugh.
Years back when my email was hacked i fell for something and ordered and used PayPal. I knew something was up the next day when the "seller" gave me and old tracking from my email. I struggled to get through paypal. I showed them the tracking was delivered before the transaction even happened. They denied my claim so I contacted Visa and they cancelled the pp transfer.
Slight update on the flywheel saga, called CM this morning. Talked to same irritable guy as before. He basically says oh I seen them back there. Give me a few hours I'll measure them up and call you. I ask if he has my number and he says I have your email...
So while waiting on that email, decided to remove the 6GA dash and test fit this...
Metal frame bolted up and both doors shut no problem. Need to do some research on the dash harness differences. Physically the left and right side fuse boxes are very similar, but the mux and internal wiring might be different.
Slight update on the flywheel saga, called CM this morning. Talked to same irritable guy as before. He basically says oh I seen them back there. Give me a few hours I'll measure them up and call you. I ask if he has my number and he says I have your email...
So while waiting on that email, decided to remove the 6GA dash and test fit this...
Metal frame bolted up and both doors shut no problem. Need to do some research on the dash harness differences. Physically the left and right side fuse boxes are very similar, but the mux and internal wiring might be different.
So, just called CM again since never got an email. Had to wait a long time to talk the same guy I keep dealing with. Anyways he claimed everything was with in spec (seemingly talking about the new one). I asked about the one with the backwards ring gear and he goes what about it...
Long story short CM are supposed ship me one new FW from another batch. And hopefully the used fw will have the ring gear flipped right side up.
So, just called CM again since never got an email. Had to wait a long time to talk the same guy I keep dealing with. Anyways he claimed everything was with in spec (seemingly talking about the new one). I asked about the one with the backwards ring gear and he goes what about it...
Long story short CM are supposed ship me one new FW from another batch. And hopefully the used fw will have the ring gear flipped right side up.
Damn, that Mr. Skeptical at CM sounds like a real tool to deal with.
I hope you find joy, with the arrival of the FW's, to finally get that beast back on the road.
CM also exchanged the suspect 'new' FW for another new in box part. After the last ordeal I didn't even want to risk trying. Instead it will be going back from whence it came
So to elaborate on the teaser pic at post 179, i've started the painstaking process of swapping the chassis wiring from 6GA to CLS.
Started by removing the 6GA dash, engine bay harnesses (above) and three under-dash boxes (missing below): evaporator, heater core & fan. Less weight, but not really practical for AZ summers
I had hoped to be done over the weekend, but there is a lot of wiring to repair. Namely all the plugs that were cannibalized for the motor swap: C101, C102, IMRC module, reverse relay, ecu E plug. In hindsight had I known the dash fit, I could have done this harness swap last year. oh well.
On another note, finally swapped out the clutch fluid line for the p2r flexible one that had been ordered while back.
Also found the source of mysterious power steering leak (the rack). Always something with these older cars...
Honestly I don't recall, it's been at least 2 yrs since I replaced the one from 2G CL. I definitely did for the 3G TLS when I still had it. Really, I didn't notice much of a difference when shifting until I went with the non self adjusting clutch and pressure plate. Single mass light flywheel also helps with revving quicker. But, they're not cheap.
How much a pain was removing the cl dash? I would like to fix the puffy unglued parts around the defrost, cut in some midrange and dampen the whole thing.
How much a pain was removing the cl dash? I would like to fix the puffy unglued parts around the defrost, cut in some midrange and dampen the whole thing.
It's not an easy task to say the least. I believe the procedure is buried in the service manual. However, to summarize: disconnect the battery, remove the driver and passenger seats... remove the center console and trim from the lower dash on both sides, remove the glove box, disconnect plugs for driver and psgr airbags and steering wheel connections, disconnect hvac actuators and blower, unbolt and lower the steering wheel. Then start disconnecting all the plugs on the outer part of both driver and passenger fuse boxes. There are a series of 4 bolts holding the dash on the left door jam, at least 4 bolts under the left driver side and 2 bolts on the passenger side. Not to mention the passenger airbag bolts. There is at least one more bolt holding the center section to the floor near the airbag module. Beware, the dash assembly is heavy and awkward to move by yourself. But, basically you lift up and away from the hooks and pins that hold it near the front. The sheetmetal is sharp too, so its best to wear gloves.
I don't remember if you have to remove the evaporator, but I did because I had an ac leak that was trying to isolate.
6GA to CL dash conversion nearing completion...
may not look like much, but its been a long time coming.
had planned to put a navi dash bezel and slim hvac ctrls. But, the seller canx the sale today, with the explanation something wrong with buyer address. When i asked why, he claimed it was already sold. think he just wanted more money.
Finally got the car running again today, after weeks of working on the dash and chassis harness swap. Took couple tries, but it came alive strong. Let it run for about 20 mins to bleed the coolant.
Clutch pedal is very firm, probably from the new p2r line. HVAC controls and gauges work as they should and the CL power seats work too. Still need to figure out why the ABS light is on, and few wiring differences with the trunk and door harnesses. Quirks aside, the finished product seems well worth the time and effort involved.
Took care of some more minor details to get the car roadworthy again....
Found root cause of ABS light, left rear wheel speed sensor accidently unplugged from harness swap. Plugged in, code cleared.
Next, built a cl to 6ga trunk harness jumper from 2 plug ends. Spare wire is for the 6ga key cylinder signal, which is not on the cl harness. Anyways, all the rear lights work, which was the goal.
Third, charged the ac, replaced ps suction hoses, cooler hoses and flushed with new ps fluid. Func check good.
After that, took car on test drive and blew the doors off some old 5 series that was trying to pass me. He didn't expect that. lol
Lastly, did some experimentation with EMS software to fix tach signal reading low after swapping in cl cluster. Long story short found hidden menu for tacho/speedo. Then altered the tacho table map to give 1 pulse every 4 teeth on the 24tooth trigger. This may not be the official way, but seems to work so far.
Took care of some more minor details to get the car roadworthy again....
Found root cause of ABS light, left rear wheel speed sensor accidently unplugged from harness swap. Plugged in, code cleared.
Next, built a cl to 6ga trunk harness jumper from 2 plug ends. Spare wire is for the 6ga key cylinder signal, which is not on the cl harness. Anyways, all the rear lights work, which was the goal.
Third, charged the ac, replaced ps suction hoses, cooler hoses and flushed with new ps fluid. Func check good.
After that, took car on test drive and blew the doors off some old 5 series that was trying to pass me. He didn't expect that. lol
Lastly, did some experimentation with EMS software to fix tach signal reading low after swapping in cl cluster. Long story short found hidden menu for tacho/speedo. Then altered the tacho table map to give 1 pulse every 4 teeth on the 24tooth trigger. This may not be the official way, but seems to work so far.
I know who I'm contacting when I get that AEM EMS..
Well, since no one chimed in on the last pics, I'll at least share that I picked up a NBP 8GA coupe from Phoenix. Came with some cosmetic flaws, old worn down tires and wouldn't shift into 2nd, but still managed to make it the couple hour drive back to my place.
Minus the 2nd gear issue and open diff, I am liking the responsiveness from the 3.55 final drive. If only Honda had kept the bolt patterns the same, would love to swap into the CLS trans. While I do realize there are aftermarket 3.55 FDs that fit both 12/14 bolt patterns, they're not cheap.
Also worth mentioning that the j35 6ga made it to Phoenix and back running on ems base tune. Although, the car is super loud on the hwy and only yielded about 20mpg. Nevertheless, its not stock by any means so its to be expected. Already ordered another muffler that should be more subtle. Also managed to find another 2G navi dash bezel and slim hvac controls. Hopefully after I fix the 8G's trans, those couple mods should be going on.
Took out my dash today for a few reasons. First off I removed the shell only. Did not remove wiring or crossbar. Not that hard to be honest. No room for midrange in the dash because of the firewall shelf. Gluing the defrost vents down as they have that puffing problem with these cars. Completely sound dampened and foam isolation installed to rid of the creeks and rattles. Need 24 hours for glue to harden so I will isolate all the wiring and controls.
Took out my dash today for a few reasons. First off I removed the shell only. Did not remove wiring or crossbar. Not that hard to be honest. No room for midrange in the dash because of the firewall shelf. Gluing the defrost vents down as they have that puffing problem with these cars. Completely sound dampened and foam isolation installed to rid of the creeks and rattles. Need 24 hours for glue to harden so I will isolate all the wiring and controls.
Cool, that's a good idea to leave the cross bar and wiring. My CLS dash has the same loose defrost vents. But, I didn't bother trying to glue. The 6GA dash I removed has molded vents. Idk why the CLS uses inserts.
Happy almost new years everybody. Its 77 degrees & sunny right now in AZ.
So between working on another car project, decided to finally pick up a J37 manifold. The height doesn't appear any different than the J35A8, but the larger opening should remove the bottle neck from the dremel'd j35 tb adapter..
J37 vs j35a8 with dremel'd p2r adapter.
Test fit j37 mani. Prank parts adapter should be here soon.
Secondly, not sure if I mentioned in the 3.55 fd swap thread that the FIC 650cc injectors are now installed.
After the fic install, did a quick street drive/tune. Seemed like car still needed more fuel up top, so also picked up a new AEM high flow pump. Haven't had time to install yet.
Ysterday was raining, so took that time to open J37 manifold for a good cleaning. Hit it with the flex hone just a bit; there's really no casting marks or any rough spots to clean up.
Then polished the outside with some 3M bristle discs, and got it primed to paint.
End result is okay for the paint had laying around. But, now the valve covers look worse. Guess that will be next.
Btw, the prank parts adapter wouldn't clear the skunk2 tb unless I used 2 thermal gaskets.
When contacting Prank about it, they said "That's a frustrating problem. All the throttle bodies I tested cleared ok but there are always changes. P2R makes some tb spacers but if 2 gaskets is working I would try that."
09-17-2022, 06:00 PM
with the clutch out the case goes on fine. seems like that depth adjustment on the ring gear is actually added thickness to the back of fw, which now made the clutch and fw assy hit the inside of the case. I even pulled the whole motor out, removed and retorqued the fw, then tried installing the trans with the motor tilted up on the fw side, and it didn't change anything. prob going have to return this fw and try to get my money back.
I'm not sure if the gear is only held by those 3 bolts. But, the same thought had actually crossed my mind. To be honest I'm more concerned with why the new one doesn't fit.
