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MT engine harness is now removed. AT harness is ran through the firewall to the cabin. The engine side plugs are all loosely laid out.
Not sure if I want to pull the timing belt off with the engine in or removed.
Also have another CLS gearset on the way too, so the trans is apart while I wait for that.
May wait until the trans is together and just pull the whole motor, idk.
btw, if one was to unhide all the rows on the spreadsheet I shared, it has a cross reference of MT and AT ecu pins.
Doing the timing with the engine in the car is such a pain in the ass. Easy when you've done plenty of times. But you already have the transmission out, it wouldn't take too long to yank the motor out.
Block is out, time to swap out the sensors, then recheck the timing...
Btw, the stage 3 clutch got toasted a bit couple weeks ago when I was having trouble shifting into 1 or 2 and had to limp it up the driveway in third. In hindsight I should have backed up in rev. Idk what the service limit is on the pads, but they're under 2mm at some points. Might be good to get a replacement clutch & flywheel insert on order.
Lastly, the moderately used cls gearset I ordered arrived yesterday. Looks pretty clean, the synchros slide easy and the gears appear in good condition.
Didnt find anything obviously wrong with the old gearset, but didnt want to take a chance with just slapping it back together.
Well, AT sensors, cam & crank gears are on the motor. Hoping to make some progress on the harness conversion this weekend. Few pics of the refreshed trans....
Never realized the 6MT has an internal oil pump & lines.
I know hardly anyone comes in the 2G CL area anymore, but I have a decision to make and need some input
For several months, I've been researching and compiling parts for my J35 build, now most parts are on hand or in route. I wont go into details on the engine because that's not the issue. The issue is I don't know what frame to keep:
Help a fellow AZ member out, what car should I use and why?
For sure the CL. Not only because it’s a rare beast but they are pretty great for what they are honestly. It’s a great base to build on. I’m about 14k deep in mine. Shooting for the fastest 2nd gen CL N/A and around corners. But the prelude is always a great choice too. Pretty great aftermarket support. Personally after this CL I’m probably going to do a 92 prelude SI j35y2 swapped or I’m going to get a 2012 TL sh awd 6mt
For sure the CL. Not only because it’s a rare beast but they are pretty great for what they are honestly. It’s a great base to build on. I’m about 14k deep in mine. Shooting for the fastest 2nd gen CL N/A and around corners. But the prelude is always a great choice too. Pretty great aftermarket support. Personally after this CL I’m probably going to do a 92 prelude SI j35y2 swapped or I’m going to get a 2012 TL sh awd 6mt
Idk if you saw the other year's worth of posts, but nearly everything went in the 6GA. I probably shouldn't even be on here anymore. Still have the prelude and recently mated another jdm h23 vtec motor to lsd trans. 6GA now has a fresh j35 with about 1k miles. Orig j32a2 is on a dolly wrapped in plastic. I could still convert the prelude, but for now its just a daily.
Just skimmed over my own thread and reflected on what has transpired. 9 months ago had 2g and 3g 6MT Type S and now have an 9AT A spec. 2g+3g =1G What is this world coming to? I blame common core math.
619rcr, did you have to check carrier bearing preload, as a result of the rebuild & splitting the trans case?
If so, for posterities sake, explain its importance & how you went about it and what you found.
Thefireball may find the info useful if he ever has to delve into a MT rebuild.
619rcr, did you have to check carrier bearing preload, as a result of the rebuild & splitting the trans case?
If so, for posterities sake, explain its importance & how you went about it and what you found.
Thefireball may find the info useful if he ever has to delve into a MT rebuild.
I swapped the mainshaft and countershaft assemblies. Resued the same diff, ring gear and carrier bearings so I didn't check preload or change any shims. I probably should check the mainshaft thrust clearance, but the increments of shims are like in the 100 thousandths. Section 13 of the service manual has very elaborate processes and procedures.
Idk if you saw the other year's worth of posts, but nearly everything went in the 6GA. I probably shouldn't even be on here anymore. Still have the prelude and recently mated another jdm h23 vtec motor to lsd trans. 6GA now has a fresh j35 with about 1k miles. Orig j32a2 is on a dolly wrapped in plastic. I could still convert the prelude, but for now its just a daily.
Dam man I feel you on that I’ve dumped so much money in my CL 6mt. Motor build is what’s next but the suspension is more than built. Custom hard race literally everything with pillowball bushings, 36 mm front sway bar, 29.5 mm rear sway bar, currently running BC DS coilovers with swift springs but planning on going custom fortune 2way. I have an ultra racing front strut bar, lower front subframe brace, Cusco front lower tie, ultra racing rear lower tie. I have a rear strut bar from a 6th gen accord on it. The trunk brace, the floor board brace for 6th gen, a few others I made work as well. Running FALKEN AZENIS RT660 XL. Currently running oem TL 17” rims but upgrading to 19’s in a few weeks. I added .8 degrees camber in rear and toed in a tad in the rear and front and added 1 degrees camber to the front. Carbon fiber hood and trunk. Lots of other goodies I’m not thinking of
3G TL is probably the most active platform, but there are other areas like ramblings, car talk, etc. that people interact on. From reading old threads 2G was a highly active area in its prime. Now hardly anyone posts much except the occasional older car drivability issues.
You really should make a thread to share some of your cl build. I'm more into drag racing, so I mainly focus on performance. But I do have a few suspension upgrades, falken azenis 660s and gutted interior.
I only had CL about 2 years before I was ready to move on. I had 3G TL type S too, but that was sold earlier this year. I have a lot planned still, but as I'm sure you realize as well it takes time for each phase.
3G TL is probably the most active platform, but there are other areas like ramblings, car talk, etc. that people interact on. From reading old threads 2G was a highly active area in its prime. Now hardly anyone posts much except the occasional older car drivability issues.
You really should make a thread to share some of your cl build. I'm more into drag racing, so I mainly focus on have a lot planned still, but as I'm sure you realize as well it takes time for each phase.
I’ll make a thread today. Im hoping to get a 4 door 7th gen 6-6 or a TL sh awd 6mt. I have seen a few badass builds from people who haven’t been on in years so it’s impossible to find out things they did 😬
I’ll make a thread today. Im hoping to get a 4 door 7th gen 6-6 or a TL sh awd 6mt. I have seen a few badass builds from people who haven’t been on in years so it’s impossible to find out things they did 😬
I'd strongly suggest 8GA over a 7GA. the j30 motor is gutless and 8GA is more inline with j37 if you want to slap one of those in with the accord trans. although j37 has only a select amount of years not subject to the heavy oil consumption. wife had a 7ga sedan exl w/ k24 like 10 yrs ago. Its really ugly imo.
look up sancho sevy on youtube for 8ga with j37
Slight progress update... motor and refreshed transmission are re-installed. EGR blocked off, EVAP removed. Need to extend the IAT again. Taking a break while I research which connectors can be removed or tucked away.
btw, figured out EMS doesn't control the manifold butterflies by default. Went ahead and removed the internal pieces. But, left the electronic valve on the top plate. Might order the prank parts cover plate later on just to clean things up.
Prank also makes an air assist valve blockoff plate. Not sure the plastic plugs near the injectors need to be capped, or if they can just be removed?
btw, figured out EMS doesn't control the manifold butterflies by default. Went ahead and removed the internal pieces. But, left the electronic valve on the top plate. Might order the prank parts cover plate later on just to clean things up.
Prank also makes an air assist valve blockoff plate. Not sure the plastic plugs near the injectors need to be capped, or if they can just be removed?
Is there no way to keep that butterfly valve working with the EMS? I'd be sad to lose that.
The IMRC actuator itself is pretty simple. There are 2 positions, normally closed (off), and momentarily open (on) when a 5v signal is sent around 4k rpm. Might be able to manually setup acessory output wires from the EMS to do the same in the software.
fwiw, I did ask p2r about any low end losses from removing the butterflies, this is what they replied: 'You wont lose any low end power if you remove them. They only add low end power at partial throttle but there is no low end loss at wide open throttle'
Finally finished up EMS wiring changes yesterday. To summarize, the engine harness accounts for 3 of 4 plugs needed on the ecu side. The other plug is intended for the AT dash harness connection. Since the car was never AT and originally 4cyl, had to come up with a creative solution for the 4th plug. Luckily one plug from the original chassis harness matched up (gotta love honda/acura). In total there were about 8 wires I had to clip from the MT ecu E plug and then connect to the ecu A plug. On the engine side I repurposed the AT mainshaft sensor plug for the MT vss. The backup light switch also had to be clipped from the MT harness, then wired up.
In cleaning up the AT harness I clipped about 10 plugs for the AT and some of the wiring. The c101 and c102 plugs had to be unwrapped and modded slightly to work with the new harness.
One quick ecu harness pic: EMS wired up
Anyways, got the car started this morning and let it idle about 20 minutes. Haven't drove it yet. Still need to mount the afr gauge to the A-pillar mount and decide if I'm going to wire up or remove the vafc2. Short first warmup vid:
^
619rcr, I envy your automotive electrical & mechanical skillsets.
Originally Posted by Thefireball
Thanks guys... it's nothing that can't be learned with patience and practice.
On another note, took the car on a test drive about 10 miles round trip. It seems to run good and had no issues seamlessly getting into vtec and through all the gears.
The only negative so far was the starter not wanting to engage the flywheel a few times... Long story short, I pulled the starter out and noted some chipped teeth on the Clutchmasters lightweight flywheel. Which ultimately means I need to replace it. Tabling that issue for now.
As for a next step, like to get a baseline dyno, then a tune. I know there's some tuners in Phoenix, but that's about 2hours away.
Thanks guys... it's nothing that can't be learned with patience and practice.
On another note, took the car on a test drive about 10 miles round trip. It seems to run good and had no issues seamlessly getting into vtec and through all the gears.
The only negative so far was the starter not wanting to engage the flywheel a few times... Long story short, I pulled the starter out and noted some chipped teeth on the Clutchmasters lightweight flywheel. Which ultimately means I need to replace it. Tabling that issue for now.
As for a next step, like to get a baseline dyno, then a tune. I know there's some tuners in Phoenix, but that's about 2hours away.
Can't just tune it while on the road? Isn't that what everyone does in a civic? "Never mess with a civic with a laptop in the passenger seat" is what I always hear..
The only negative so far was the starter not wanting to engage the flywheel a few times... Long story short, I pulled the starter out and noted some chipped teeth on the Clutchmasters lightweight flywheel. Which ultimately means I need to replace it. Tabling that issue for now.
Since it's a different company this may not be relevent; however, I remember 6spd-GERCO had an AASCO LWF that had a ring gear installed backwards that caused issues with the starter.
Originally Posted by 6spd-GERCO
Now here's when it got interesting, I got everything back together, car runs great and I am taking it easy to break in the clutch. About the 8th start on the flywheel, I get a grinding noise, the starter is working but it's not engaging the flywheel on the car. I think it's the starter and install a new one, same thing! I put the old one in and think hey maybe it's a bur on the flywheel because after I get the new starter in it works for a few days. I take it to Acura for an alignment and after I get the car back it does the same thing. I had to get to work so they gave me a loaner 2014 SH-AWD and looked at it for me. They couldn't come up with anything and said it was because it was an aftermarket flywheel. I talked to Josh at Excelerate and he tells me he will look into it and to check with AASCO.
I end up talking to Vince at AASCO and he tells me they will send me a new flywheel right off the bar. We both are puzzled as to why the starter is having issues engaging the flywheel. I asked him about what I could do to check the ring gear, maybe count the teeth or check the runout with a dial indicator. Right before I get off the phone he tells me to check to see if the engagement chamfer on the ring gear to see it's facing the trans, he said it was a long shot but the ring gear maybe on backwards. Sure enough the ring gear was on backwards! So now I am relegating to rocking the car in gear every time the starter doesn't engage the flywheel until I get my replacement in.
Is it possible Clutchmasters might have installed their ring gear incorrectly?
Since it's a different company this may not be relevent; however, I remember 6spd-GERCO had an AASCO LWF that had a ring gear installed backwards that caused issues with the starter.
Is it possible Clutchmasters might have installed their ring gear incorrectly?
An interesting theory. I do remember reading that story awhile ago. But, i would expect that if it was backwards it would have had issues immediately after installing. I don't remember exactly when it started having problems, but my theory is that the fw teeth are offset slightly too shallow. This coupled with the original starter teeth being worn, chipped some of the teeth when the two didn't mesh.
Oddly after recently replacing the starter, the issue seemed to go away. But now its back again with a vengeance. lol. Anyways the fw is pretty expensive, so when i hear the dreaded zzzzrrrrr, I pop it in 4th gear and rock the car a few times to rotate the teeth. Not a fix, but it works for now.
Can't just tune it while on the road? Isn't that what everyone does in a civic? "Never mess with a civic with a laptop in the passenger seat" is what I always hear..
lol, funny the aem instructions explicitly say not to tune the car while driving. obviously its a safety hazard to look at a laptop while driving. If I had someone else drive it maybe.
An alternative is log while driving, then stop, analyze, tweak and repeat. Or pay someone for an remote etune which takes some coordination and back and forth. At the end of the day either could work. But, i'm also curious to see how much power it puts down on an chassis dyno.
I was actually in phoenix last week, but the car wasn't ready at the time. I interviewed for a job out there... who knows maybe it'll all work out.
lol, funny the aem instructions explicitly say not to tune the car while driving. obviously its a safety hazard to look at a laptop while driving. If I had someone else drive it maybe.
An alternative is log while driving, then stop, analyze, tweak and repeat. Or pay someone for an remote etune which takes some coordination and back and forth. At the end of the day either could work. But, i'm also curious to see how much power it puts down on an chassis dyno.
I was actually in phoenix last week, but the car wasn't ready at the time. I interviewed for a job out there... who knows maybe it'll all work out.
I've been dying to try tuning my friend's Del Sol ever since we got that chipped ECU in. It drives fine with what ever is on it, but I want to see what tuning software is all about. Combines both of my hobbies into one, lol.
But something just always has to go wrong with his car. Right now it's the brake light switch. I need practice for the future when I mess with it on my car!
@zeta made a vid inspecting the fw this morning. Noted more damage than what I recalled seeing with the transmission off. Maybe because I was looking closer. In any case, looks like I better get one on order soon.
I've been dying to try tuning my friend's Del Sol ever since we got that chipped ECU in. It drives fine with what ever is on it, but I want to see what tuning software is all about. Combines both of my hobbies into one, lol.
But something just always has to go wrong with his car. Right now it's the brake light switch. I need practice for the future when I mess with it on my car!
The problem with obd1 chips is they can't be re-burned. Meaning if you want to tune it, you do the tune on a laptop, then burn a new chip. The prelude is running a socketed obd1 p28 with a crome tune I had done in CA. I have maybe 6 other chips laying around from various H series tunes I had done. I considered picking up an chip burner, but its ancient technology.
I hear ya on the problems. That's partly why I have so many cars. Gotta have spares. lol
What engine is in it now? B20 vtec?
The problem with obd1 chips is they can't be re-burned. Meaning if you want to tune it, you do the tune on a laptop, then burn a new chip. The prelude is running a socketed obd1 p28 with a crome tune I had done in CA. I have maybe 6 other chips laying around from various H series tunes I had done. I considered picking up an chip burner, but its ancient technology.
I hear ya on the problems. That's partly why I have so many cars. Gotta have spares. lol
What engine is in it now? B20 vtec?
We bought a chip burner on accident. Do you need a new chip, or can we just use the burner? The chip that's in the ECU now has Hondata on it, or at least that's what he selected when he ordered it. I just want to get my laptop hooked up and see what it's all about.
The motor that he is running now is a B16 VTEC that the previous owners swapped in. They didn't do the greatest job, like leaving the AC Compressor hanging off the radiator with it's belt while still having the lines connected. Thankfully the bracket from the B20 worked, and we had the pulley and tensioner as well.
We bought a chip burner on accident. Do you need a new chip, or can we just use the burner? The chip that's in the ECU now has Hondata on it, or at least that's what he selected when he ordered it. I just want to get my laptop hooked up and see what it's all about.
The motor that he is running now is a B16 VTEC that the previous owners swapped in. They didn't do the greatest job, like leaving the AC Compressor hanging off the radiator with it's belt while still having the lines connected. Thankfully the bracket from the B20 worked, and we had the pulley and tensioner as well.
Nice, when you said chipped ecu I thought you meant an overseas special generic chip, which fits into a soldered socket. Like those alleged Mugen chips on ebay. lol
I believe s300 is the latest version hondata and previous versions were discontinued. If so their site indicates: The s300 does not use an EEPROM or equivalent, so you never need to open the ECU to change chips nor 'burn' ROMs. No EPROM programmer is necessary - you just need a laptop with USB port or Radio technology capability
Nice, when you said chipped ecu I thought you meant an overseas special generic chip, which fits into a soldered socket. Like those alleged Mugen chips on ebay. lol
I believe s300 is the latest version hondata and previous versions were discontinued. If so their site indicates: The s300 does not use an EEPROM or equivalent, so you never need to open the ECU to change chips nor 'burn' ROMs. No EPROM programmer is necessary - you just need a laptop with USB port or Radio technology capability
He ordered an ECU from a site where they took care of everything. They had him select a couple of things, I'm guessing to throw on a base map. Probably why his car drives perfectly fine with no issues. The chip is removable though. Has a little handle, like you'd see on a PC motherboard when removing/installing a CPU. So I'm assuming if we wanted to, we could take the chip out, put it on the burner, and put a different software on it.
I believe it is an S300 chip, but I have no clue. I'm new to all this. From what I could see, the Hondata stuff has an entire board that you would solder onto the ECU itself or something? His ECU just has 4 pins that are sticking off the board. So I'll need to chop the end of a USB cord that can transfer data, and put the corresponding wires into a connector. Thankfully, it's the same sort of connector that a PC fan uses, and I have plenty of spare PC parts from building gaming PCs lol.
Had some time today to play with the ems between rain storms. First order of business, adjust the idle to account for load fluctuations with ac on / off. Reason, although the software has built in idle feedback, which tries to correct itself, I was getting a surging when the compressor kicked on. Started by closing the tb adjustment screw almost all the way, then increased idle feedback variance from 25rpm to 75 rpm to reduce the feedback surges. Next set base iac percentage to 30% for target of 900rpm. Then experimented with ac compensation, around 12% seems to work for now. Idle still varies slightly as the ac kicks on and off, but its hardly noticeable and stabilizes itself pretty quick.
Second order of business, perform a base timing check and software timing synch. Basically, following the initial setup instructions lock the timing to 10 degrees in the software (electronic equivalent of jumping the scs wire). Then point a timing light at the crank pulley and look for the 10 degree mark. Last adjust the synch to match the crank pulley and software.
Sounds easy enough, but how does one hook up an inductive timing light to a coil over plug setup without an expensive adapter or fancy equipment? Simple, remove the #1 coil and connect a spark checker or custom fabbed plug wire between the plug and coil. Then put the inductive clamp over the cable like below:
Just be careful to select a long enough lead that sticks out past the plug tube or you run the risk of having piece(s) separate and get stuck in the spark plug tube (dont ask how I know).
All said and done, timing was advanced about 3-4 degrees from where it should be. Good thing I checked. Luckily, with just a few clicks it was easily corrected.
Prepping to swap the flywheel. Although I don't prefer to remove transmissions from the bottom, already got the sub-frame out, axles out, ready to drop.
@Thefireball There you go, two out of three, the easiest way to identify a true CL-S6 manual trans.
1) Shift lever pin to the outside (red).
2) 'C6' bar code indicated on the trans case (yellow).
3) CKP sensor on rear of the clutch case (not shown).
So, may have found the root cause for the starter issues. A bit hard to see, but the ring gear on the old one is more recessed than the new one. New is on right.
@Thefireball There you go, two out of three, the easiest way to identify a true CL-S6 manual trans.
1) Shift lever pin to the outside (red).
2) 'C6' bar code indicated on the trans case (yellow).
3) CKP sensor on rear of the clutch case (not shown).
Yep, if you look closely on the barcode, should see the letters PYZ, which correlates with the acura part number for cls 6spd transmission.
08-22-2022, 05:16 PM
Idk what the service limit is on the pads, but they're under 2mm at some points. Might be good to get a replacement clutch & flywheel insert on order.
Finally finished up EMS wiring changes yesterday. To summarize, the engine harness accounts for 3 of 4 plugs needed on the ecu side. The other plug is intended for the AT dash harness connection. Since the car was never AT and originally 4cyl, had to come up with a creative solution for the 4th plug. Luckily one plug from the original chassis harness matched up (gotta love honda/acura). In total there were about 8 wires I had to clip from the MT ecu E plug and then connect to the ecu A plug. On the engine side I repurposed the AT mainshaft sensor plug for the MT vss. The backup light switch also had to be clipped from the MT harness, then wired up.
Tabling that issue for now.
! I put the old one in and think hey maybe it's a bur on the flywheel because after I get the new starter in it works for a few days. I take it to Acura for an alignment and after I get the car back it does the same thing. I had to get to work so they gave me a loaner 2014 SH-AWD and looked at it for me. They couldn't come up with anything and said it was because it was an aftermarket flywheel. I talked to Josh at Excelerate and he tells me he will look into it and to check with AASCO.
Good thing I checked. Luckily, with just a few clicks it was easily corrected.
