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619rcr, I was just curious as to how those suite P2R headers plumbed together in an attempt to try and understand how Thefireball's girl is having exhaust leaks with their set.
1 connects to 2; 3 connects to 4; 5 fits inside 6 held by 7; 8 clamps 9 & 10 together; 11 & 12 clamp 1&2, 3&4 respectively?
I'm I anywhere in the 'ballpark'?
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Hey Zeta, your puzzle piece fitting instincts serve you well. I actually had some pm' convo with thefireball trying to help him figure out the fitment issues.
The pieces beneath the manifolds do take some angling and clocking magic to put together just right.
To give some background I previously had a 2.5" cat and planned to weld in a new 3" cat to match the p2r flex pipe. Thus when I first put the headers on the 2.5" cat was out. This facilitated essentially minimal stress on the pipes as I clocked and angled everything (btw this seems to be the key). When I had the pieces all fitted how I wanted I tightened the clamps and attached the vband flex pipe. Finally, welded on 3" cat, and extended rear exhaust section up to the cat.
A few work in progress pics are here
(spoiler: welding isn't very good, but it holds)
Recently I had the opportunity to remove and reinstall the headers again when installing the new block. Knowing the fitment was tricky at best I marked the critical joints before disassembly. This way upon reassembly I would know that clocking/lengths were correct. While the markings did help, I still had some trouble holding the vband flanges just right until I supported the cat and rear section to remove the stress from the forward pipes. Mind you I'm doing this all by myself with the car supported on jack stands above me.
Now, back to the issue that thefireball is having. My best guess is that either the weight of rear section is pulling down the front section as he tries to band everything together (affecting the angle) or the muffler shop did something unusual which affects the overall length. In either case the end result is improper fitment and leaking at the vband flanges. Thus, if he has not already I would remove the stress of the mid and rear from the headers and try to fit the front together first. A jack and/or another person would definitely help.
Hey Zeta, your puzzle piece fitting instincts serve you well. I actually had some pm' convo with thefireball trying to help him figure out the fitment issues.
Thanks for the thorough explanation!
Thefireball did not mention if he had the exhaust shop install the auto rear engine mount bracket or if they modified the CL-S6 one?
Maybe that's factoring in somehow?
Anyway, don't want to clutter up your thread much more so I'll cease, lol.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the thorough explanation!
Thefireball did not mention if he had the exhaust shop install the auto rear engine mount bracket or if they modified the CL-S6 one?
Maybe that's factoring in somehow?
Anyway, don't want to clutter up your thread much more so I'll cease, lol.
Thanks again.
No worries Zeta, hardly anyone seems to care about this thread anyways. lol
As an update to my last, J35 is officially over the 600mile mark and I'm having fun testing out the NA power. The motor pulls pretty hard in 1st to 3rd, esp from 5k up. I credit the top end power to the ported heads and free breathing intake. I still miss the low end power of the supercharger, but def not unhappy with what I have.
Secondly, received OBX turbo manifolds. I did notice some shortcomings in build quality that will impede peak performance. The cylinder head mating flanges are just slightly smaller than the stock. Also although the down pipe is a 3" vband, it that tapers down to a 2.5" pipe. Both are not show stoppers, just considerations in the next phase of the fi restoration/transformation.
Lastly, I'll end with few pics of a reincarnated bumper that was laying around. The OE one was having trouble staying on after the corner broke off from multiple years of abuse. Ultimately I plan to order a replacement OE bumper, as the aftermarket offers limited ground clearance. Happy 4th!
Thus, if he has not already I would remove the stress of the mid and rear from the headers and try to fit the front together first. A jack and/or another person would definitely help.
I had an extra jack holding the exhaust piping in place when I was removing/installing it, it definitely helped. so I was able to lift/lower it as needed.
When I inspected it last, everything looked sealed; I couldn't find a gap. I even tried spraying some soapy water when it was on to see if I could find a gap.. that didn't go over so well because it just sizzles from the heat. Placing hand nearby, but not to close, felt nothing. But it's there. Not to mention, I got frustrated having to do it a fourth time and went crazy with copper gasket maker.
Originally Posted by 619rcr
No worries Zeta, hardly anyone seems to care about this thread anyways. lol
I'm always on here as soon as I get a notification of a thread reply. I know I type paragraphs, so it's just easier to leave a thumbs up then to just ramble on. But I do enjoy the updates.
I couldn't find a gap. I even tried spraying some soapy water when it was on to see if I could find a gap.. that didn't go over so well because it just sizzles from the heat. Placing hand nearby, but not to close, felt nothing. But it's there. Not to mention, I got frustrated having to do it a fourth time and went crazy with copper gasket maker.
I'm always on here as soon as I get a notification of a thread reply. I know I type paragraphs, so it's just easier to leave a thumbs up then to just ramble on. But I do enjoy the updates.
Thanks for the support. It is a bit awkward giving updates on a chassis that isn't the focus of this site. But, there are several other honda builds buried here and there so at least I'm not the first
On the header leak perhaps there is a crack, if so eventually carbon will buildup around it. I've used the high temp copper gasket on some tri y headers for the prelude. It works decently for that style header because the pieces are slip fit. The p2r choice of vbands seems to leave minimal flex, so that could be the main issue.
Forgot to mention the new bumper allows a lot more air flow, also added some purple ice (water wetter) to the coolant system. I'll be monitoring temps for a while, but can already see improvements. May pickup a manifold spacer to shift the hp curve down. Just need to figure out how much hood clearance I have.
Thanks for the support. It is a bit awkward giving updates on a chassis that isn't the focus of this site. But, there are several other honda builds buried here and there so at least I'm not the first
On the header leak perhaps there is a crack, if so eventually carbon will buildup around it. I've used the high temp copper gasket on some tri y headers for the prelude. It works decently for that style header because the pieces are slip fit. The p2r choice of vbands seems to leave minimal flex, so that could be the main issue.
Forgot to mention the new bumper allows a lot more air flow, also added some purple ice (water wetter) to the coolant system. I'll be monitoring temps for a while, but can already see improvements. May pickup a manifold spacer to shift the hp curve down. Just need to figure out how much hood clearance I have.
I don't even have the IM spacer, but I've considered it. I banged the middle portion of my hood with a rubber mallet to see if I could get it to fit. It worked, but it left a lot of tension on the locking mechanism for the hood. Not to mention, it dented the hood a little bit, which you can see slightly in the pics I took.
I've been getting into less races from a stop though, so more HP is what I need rather than torque. Recently lost to one of those Camry's with the black tops, has me butt hurt. Beaten one before, but I couldn't get out of 4th gear, where we were dead even. In third, I was reeling them in. I need manual already .
I don't even have the IM spacer, but I've considered it. I banged the middle portion of my hood with a rubber mallet to see if I could get it to fit. It worked, but it left a lot of tension on the locking mechanism for the hood. Not to mention, it dented the hood a little bit, which you can see slightly in the pics I took.
I've been getting into less races from a stop though, so more HP is what I need rather than torque. Recently lost to one of those Camry's with the black tops, has me butt hurt. Beaten one before, but I couldn't get out of 4th gear, where we were dead even. In third, I was reeling them in. I need manual already .
Maybe trade cars with your GF. I'd like to pickup a spare 6mt that could bolt to RL block, but people are asking ridiculous prices.
My hood is warped too. Like I said car been through a lot. Anyways, used some modeling clay between top of the mani and hood, measured about 5/8" clearance. That's with spacers on the rear hinges; without probably zero. Went ahead and ordered a 12.5mm spacer, the taller ones would be too thick. Interested to see if changes anything.
Maybe trade cars with your GF. I'd like to pickup a spare 6mt that could bolt to RL block, but people are asking ridiculous prices.
My hood is warped too. Like I said car been through a lot. Anyways, used some modeling clay between top of the mani and hood, measured about 5/8" clearance. That's with spacers on the rear hinges; without probably zero. Went ahead and ordered a 12.5mm spacer, the taller ones would be too thick. Interested to see if changes anything.
Her CL isn't as fast as mine. We tested it when we left slammedenuff. It's definitely able to keep up with me, but I'm able to get about 3 or 4 car lengths on her. Besides, it feels wrong, and I'm not good with a manual yet. I can drive to and from work in a manual, but going from a stop with some one behind me, especially on a hill, makes me nervous. Not to mention, there's still the exhaust leak.
I'll learn more once mine is converted.
Is that the half sized ones P2R sells? I've always wondered how much a difference those make compared to the full sized ones.
Her CL isn't as fast as mine. We tested it when we left slammedenuff. It's definitely able to keep up with me, but I'm able to get about 3 or 4 car lengths on her. Besides, it feels wrong, and I'm not good with a manual yet.
Is that the half sized ones P2R sells? I've always wondered how much a difference those make compared to the full sized ones.
yeah, its the p2r part IMS392-12.5 , but it was actually cheaper to get thru an ebay seller than direct.
3.5 auto vs 3.2 manual huh? maybe let her win a few times. lol. Wife and I are opposite, I'd rather drive manual. She doesn't like the hassle of changing gears. Thus she drives the TLX more than me.
yeah, its the p2r part IMS392-12.5 , but it was actually cheaper to get thru an ebay seller than direct.
3.5 auto vs 3.2 manual huh? maybe let her win a few times. lol. Wife and I are opposite, I'd rather drive manual. She doesn't like the hassle of changing gears. Thus she drives the TLX more than me.
She said she never wants to go back to an automatic car after driving manual. It's too much fun for her. Unfortunately, her ankle is broken at the moment and can't drive.
She said she never wants to go back to an automatic car after driving manual. It's too much fun for her. Unfortunately, her ankle is broken at the moment and can't drive.
I told you, when you first started on this forum, that you had a rare breed.
Fun fact, this is where my fascination with 'manuals' began which later transferred to cars.
Found a short dyno clip of what looks like an 8th or 9th gen accord testing the P2R 3/4" IM spacer. comments below indicate: 'have now gone to a 12.5mm spacer from p2r which will lose less up high and some gains down low'
Was skimming thru one of the old 2g cls build threads and came across mention of hybrid racing shifter bushings. They replace the factory rubber inserts on the trans side of the shifter cables. Like the concept of the firmer bushing, just ordered off Amazon (search: Hybrid Racing Performance Shifter Cable Bushings)
Hybrid also makes an adjustable shifter; pretty expensive but it looks legit. Install guide has lots of pics. (Ignore the 97-01 prelude title its intended for 5th gen prelude. 6th gen accord and03 CLS): https://guides.hybrid-racing.com/Gui...de/327?lang=en
Received and installed the 12.5mm intake spacer today. Came with longer bolts, and some washers. This was the thinnest avail and hood barely closes with spacers. CL should be able to run the 19mm spacer. Also removed about 100lbs excess weight: spare, jack, tools, sub, amp, rear seat, rear seat belts, rear floor mats. Ride height went up a slightly, might get a battery relocation kit.
Have now removed over 200 lbs from the car In an effort to improve power to weight ratio and perhaps fuel economy. Weights for reference, mind you this is with a bathroom scale:
CLS passenger seat 52.8 lbs
Spare tire 27.6 lbs
6GA rear seat back 23.5 lbs
6GA lwr seat cushion 9.4lbs
Jack 6lbs
spare tire cover aka trunk liner 9lbs
trunk and rear seat sound deadening material, rear seat buckles, 3x floor mats 19.2 lbs
Also removed sub box, amp, capacitor and few cables 68 lbs
The heavy CLS driver seat is still in as well as carpet, driver floor mat and main cabin sound deadening material. May see about getting it weighed on a truck scale.
Have now removed over 200 lbs from the car In an effort to improve power to weight ratio and perhaps fuel economy. Weights for reference, mind you this is with a bathroom scale:
CLS passenger seat 52.8 lbs
Spare tire 27.6 lbs
6GA rear seat back 23.5 lbs
6GA lwr seat cushion 9.4lbs
Jack 6lbs
spare tire cover aka trunk liner 9lbs
trunk and rear seat sound deadening material, rear seat buckles, 3x floor mats 19.2 lbs
Also removed sub box, amp, capacitor and few cables 68 lbs
The heavy CLS driver seat is still in as well as carpet, driver floor mat and main cabin sound deadening material. May see about getting it weighed on a truck scale.
Not the sub, I can't drive with out my music. But then again, not listening to Drum & Bass might make me not speed as much.
And are you not worried about getting flat? I've considered removing a that, but I prefer having a full interior and all the luxuries that come with it.
Not the sub, I can't drive with out my music. But then again, not listening to Drum & Bass might make me not speed as much.
And are you not worried about getting flat? I've considered removing a that, but I prefer having a full interior and all the luxuries that come with it.
Don't get me wrong music is a still playing, just making a sacrifice on bass for less weight. I have a smaller 300watt powered 10" box, but its not the same and still 20lbs so out it went.
The funny thing about a spare is they seem to never be needed until you don't have one. When you do they're normally flat & half the size of the normal tire. Food for thought, Acura didn't put a spare in my TLX, which has the Aspec 19s. instead there is an Acura tire repair kit/air compressor which injects fix a flat liquid as it pumps up the tire. I could carry a can of tire slime and an portable air pump but tire slime / fix a flat ruins tires so prob not.
Don't get me wrong music is a still playing, just making a sacrifice on bass for less weight. I have a smaller 300watt powered 10" box, but its not the same and still 20lbs so out it went.
The funny thing about a spare is they seem to never be needed until you don't have one. When you do they're normally flat & half the size of the normal tire. Food for thought, Acura didn't put a spare in my TLX, which has the Aspec 19s. instead there is an Acura tire repair kit/air compressor which injects fix a flat liquid as it pumps up the tire. I could carry a can of tire slime and an portable air pump but tire slime / fix a flat ruins tires so prob not.
I hit a really big pothole before the J32 blew and blew out the tire from the side wall. Wasn't happy to find the spare was flat. Had to drive on the flat broken tire about a mile or two down the road to fill the spare up with air.
I have a tire patch kit in the car, but it won't fix a blown out side wall lol.
Removed a bit more weight today:
CLS main cabin carpet - 23.2 lbs
6GA main cabin sound deadening material - 16.2 lbs
With ~254.9 lb cumulative weight removal, the rear wheel gaps were huge: 3.5"(LR) and 3.75"(RR).
Replaced rear Tein H techs with Skunk 2, wheel gaps down to 2.125" (LR) and 2.25" (RR)
This is with just under 1/2 tank gas
Fronts with Tein H Tech are 2"(LF) and 2.25(RF).
Pretty much the best I could do without adj. coil-overs and lighter driver seat.
One last update for post #100. Decided to sell the comptech sc, so I'll posting that soon. In its place will be running a big blue bottle. Used to run it in this chassis when it was H series powered, so the mounting holes were already drilled. If/when the sc sells plan to get AEM standalone and tune.
Until then here's one teaser pic:
Sold the supercharger and low profile battery tray. So went ahead and installed a trunk mounted battery and heavy duty 1 GA wire kit. Used a 1GA to 4 GA splitter at the front, which allowed reuse of the positive cable. Ran a 4GA ground straight to the block. Need to extend one more wire before I test it.
Man its quiet in 2g land.
Anyways, ordered some FIC 650cc injectors from p2r; they made me an 5% off offer just from looking at them. Also ordered a few fuel fittings for the nos kit. Still waiting to order EMS, but I did download the software and started watching basic setup vids.
Btw, there's 4 new p8e heads on the p2r ebay store. Way less than what I paid, granted mine are ported. Got a discount offer on those too, but really don't have room for more parts.
Anyone want to guess what's in here?
Hint, its not headers.
Piping for the turbo?
And it has been really quiet lately. I've got plans for a thread soon, just to throw some activity on this side of the forums. Just gotta sell these Type S Brembo calipers first.
And it has been really quiet lately. I've got plans for a thread soon, just to throw some activity on this side of the forums. Just gotta sell these Type S Brembo calipers first.
Good guess. loI. manifolds, and associated pipes to be exact.
I saw your calipers and it reminded me of the spare 3G TLS pads and rear rotors i have. Too bad the front pads don't fit RL calipers. I may put those on some day, but for now the CLS brakes are really not bad. I do have slotted/cross drilled fronts and braided hoses all around. Tires play a big part in braking too.
Good guess. loI. manifolds, and associated pipes to be exact.
I saw your calipers and it reminded me of the spare 3G TLS pads and rear rotors i have. Too bad the front pads don't fit RL calipers. I may put those on some day, but for now the CLS brakes are really not bad. I do have slotted/cross drilled fronts and braided hoses all around. Tires play a big part in braking too.
Who supplied the pipes?
And the with the RL calipers, I didn't notice too big of a difference in all honesty. I've only had to slam on my brakes like once or twice due to idiots on the road, and they definitely stopped the wheels enough for them drag on the road. This is in combination with the (stainless steel?) braided brake lines.
Other than that, I have to push my brake pedal down about 30-40% before they start braking. They were bled and had all the air pushed out of the lines upon installing them, including the rears. So not sure why it's doing that. Guess I should try bleeding them again. On the TL, the brake pedal is super sensitive. So when I switch between the two, I end up hitting the pedal a little too much, lol. Ironically, the gas pedal is less sensitive on the TL, while the CL's is very touchy.
I just like the looks of the RL calipers the most to be honest. The Acura letters really add to the looks. Just don't look too close, or you'll see my crappy paint job lol.
And the with the RL calipers, I didn't notice too big of a difference in all honesty. I've only had to slam on my brakes like once or twice due to idiots on the road, and they definitely stopped the wheels enough for them drag on the road. This is in combination with the (stainless steel?) braided brake lines.
Other than that, I have to push my brake pedal down about 30-40% before they start braking. They were bled and had all the air pushed out of the lines upon installing them, including the rears. So not sure why it's doing that. Guess I should try bleeding them again. On the TL, the brake pedal is super sensitive. So when I switch between the two, I end up hitting the pedal a little too much, lol. Ironically, the gas pedal is less sensitive on the TL, while the CL's is very touchy.
I just like the looks of the RL calipers the most to be honest. The Acura letters really add to the looks. Just don't look too close, or you'll see my crappy paint job lol.
The pipes are cheap obx. I really don't want to go full custom, until I get some better supporting mods.
Interesting on your brake engagement point. Maybe your master cyl is bypassing internally. Not that I'm suggesting replacement, just a thought. You're not losing fluid I preaume and the drum parking brake adjustment doesn't affect disc brakes, so not a lot of variables left. Booster would be something else to check. There is a test procedure in the service manual, where you shut off the car, deplete the reserve assist, and then hold the pedal to see if it sinks. There is a bit more I'm forgetting on the sequence, but its pretty easy to do.
I like the look of the RLs too. Funny I figured the TLX would have 4 piston calipers, but they're just big 2 pistons. I actually never thought the 3G TLS brakes were that great even after putting all new brembo pads and slotted/cross drilled rotors, but aesthetically they were nice to look at.
Test fit of the fuel line adapter to 4AN fuel feed hose. For reference the mating threads on the engine side are M12 x1
FIC injectors showed up today. Looks like they may have been re-shrink wrapped. But, seals under wrap appear intact.
Temp installed the AFR gauge in preparation for EMS. Did a couple test pulls up to 4th, seeing about 12-13:1. This is with new stock injectors and afr sensor temp mounted past the cat. which means it may be slightly richer. As a comparison point the old SC j32a2 with ct rising rate fpr used to hit 10-11:1 under boost. Which is way rich.
Anyways here's a couple clips of the tests. Ignore the dbl sided tape under the gauge. A pillar mount arrives soon
I was talking to my friends about this the other week. I love the chop sound. Definitely not something you'd expect from a V6. I'd love to do the VTEC killer cams & rocker combo, but I can't imagine daily driving with it.
Maybe when I buy a wrecked CL-S6 to convert my car into a manual, I'll use the old destroyed body to turn it into a pure track car. Nothing but a pipe dream for me though lol.
Slight update, AEM EMS showed up today, thanks to P2R btw. With the NOS, need to turn the timing down on activation, which AEM allows. Been tweaking the base map a little in preparation. Unfortunately install will be pending some other work on prelude, not to mention the MT to AT sensors and engine harness swap. Teaser pic...
^^
Like you advised him previously in post #2 of his thread, if Keith johnson, on the 2G TL side, would have done similarly & purchased an automatic Type-S engine harness for his J32A2 swap he would not be in his current predicament.
^^
Like you advised him previously in post #2 of his thread, if Keith johnson, on the 2G TL side, would have done similarly & purchased an automatic Type-S engine harness for his J32A2 swap he would not be in his current predicament.
Thought he mentioned obtaining a type s harness, but maybe it wasn't in actuality ? For reference the p/n on mine is 32110-pge-a50, which matches up to 01-03 CL non navi sport / 02-03 TL Type S.
Funny thing is the EMS uses only about 50 wires total, some of which are optional inputs and outputs for aftermarket add ons. Figured this out when making an extensive cross-reference spreadsheet of all the CL MT, AT and EMS ecu pinouts. The C101 and C102 plugs also slightly vary between the AT and MT. The MT uses a lot less wires. I accidently threw out some images of the AT C101 and C102 pinouts, so there's a couple I still need to verify. I thought about removing excess wires to thin the bundles, but thats a lot of work. lol
^
Would the Boomslang AEM 6051 2001-2003 Acura CL Manual Transmission 'pin' designation help you?
If so, I can try to scan a clear (copy I have is a little blurry) PDF copy & send it to your gmail?
Is it the same gmail you gave me when you purchased the S/C'er?
^
Would the Boomslang AEM 6051 2001-2003 Acura CL Manual Transmission 'pin' designation help you?
If so, I can try to scan a clear (copy I have is a little blurry) PDF copy & send it to your gmail?
Is it the same gmail you gave me when you purchased the S/C'er?
Not really, I've got a pretty extensive cross reference (attached) for the ECU side.
The connections I'm talking about dbl-chk'ing are two large plugs on the drvr side (C101, 102) that connect to two matching plugs near the LF strut tower.
I previously blanked out the AT wires on these images as they were irrelevant at the time. The originals were either overwritten or deleted.
07-04-2022, 08:59 PM
much more so I'll cease, lol.
.
Man its quiet in 2g land.
Thought he mentioned obtaining a type s harness, but maybe it wasn't in actuality ? For reference the p/n on mine is 32110-pge-a50, which matches up to 01-03 CL non navi sport / 02-03 TL Type S.