As I recall, in the July 2000 issue of Motor Trend, the article claimed better handling numbers for the CL-S as opposed to the 328ci. Granted, the BMW wasn't equipped with the sport package and was riding on 16 inch wheels. The article even states that if the BMW had 17's, the numbers would be closer. Now, these numbers are derived from tests none of us ever do, so my question is, how is the handling of the CL-S compared to that of a 3 series with sport package in real world driving (curvy roads, twisties etc...). I know that our cars are one of the better front drive handling cars out there, but can we hang with a 3 series? I ask this cause me and a friend always talk smack about how I'll smoke his 323ci automatic, but he always brings up the "Let's race in the canyons" issue. Should I take his challenge? I think that with acceleration advantage I have, he won't catch up to me, even with the "better" handling. What do you guys think?

 

It depends on how twisty the mountain roads actually are, their engineering, and elevation gain/loss.

All other things being equal, FWD cars are more disadvantaged:

1. When turns are linked and tight...
2. When you're running uphill, and...
3. When the roads are badly engineered (off-camber).

However, things are not equal. You have a huge wheel horsepower advantage, and the automatic has also negated some of his weight advantage too. He does have a large grip, brake, and agility advantage, though.

So run him on a minimally twisty, well-engineered moderate but constant uphill. You'll maximize your whp advantage, while minimizing his grip, braking, and agility advantages. The lack of downhill intervals doesn't allow him to carry speed when you have to scrub off. But you don't have to be too anal about meeting every criteria. It is only an automatic 323ci. Just make sure you don't run him on a twisty and steep downhill.

Ideally, you want to do it time-trial fashion, w/a timing person at each end w/communication. Realistically, let him be in the lead of a 5-car-length rolling start. Have him agree to the criteria of win/loss as being able to approach him or having him leave you in the dust. You'll be tailgating his bumper in no time, since lead position is much harder to drive.

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051/LP/SR/LD/HH
Potenza S-02 Pole Position

The Reasonable Voice of Bias

[This message has been edited by DtEW (edited 05-28-2001).]

 

Not all FWD drive are poor handlers. My previous car was a 1998 Sebring and it handled great! Granted, it was lighter, had a lower CG and stickier tires. All that car needed was a manly engine!!!

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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
No Navi/No Spoiler
Competch springs
35% tint
PIAA 19169 bulbs
K&N 33-2178 air filter

The Aviation Zone

 

Go for it, it's just a 323, even if his car is slightly better in the handling department, you'll be wayyyy ahead of him already

 

Go ahead and call me biased (being an M3 owner) but the CL-S DRIVER would have to be a VERY skilled driver to keep up with a so-so 3 series driver in the twisties.

If you can make up ground on long straights, then fine. But if the road is very twisty without long straights, he'll most likely walk away from you.

I've got a friend with a 330Ci with the sports package, and even with the extra performance/power of my M3, I have a hard time pulling away from him on mountain roads. He's an excellent driver, and I think his car is nearly as capable as mine in the handling department.

In my opinion, the difference between the CL-S and the BMW 3 series is not so much in the actually handling capabilities as it is the "feel" of the car. The BMW just has a feel to it that gives you the confidence to push harder, where the CL-S might make you pull back, fearing a loss of control.

For example, I have this loooong sweeping off ramp that I take every day coming home. In my CL-S, I used to take it harder and harder every day until I felt that I was at the limit of the car. A quick glance down at the speedo showed me that I could do around 43 MPH on a warm, dry day. Any faster than that and I was sure that I'd smack the guardrail. There was no doubt in my mind that the car was at its limit.

In the M3, however, I continue to use this off-ramp. So far, the fastest I've hit in the M3 was about 45 MPH. But the M3 gives me the feeling that I can squeeze out a little more speed, without the fear of smacking the guardrail. The point I'm trying to make is this- I'm not sure if I found the limit of the M3 on this particular ramp yet. Why? Simple- The M3 gives me more confidence to push it harder.

I hope you get the point.

Maybe you guys should do it twice-- and switch cars after the first time.

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99 M3
dead CL-S

Tom2: The Voice Of Reason and Captain of the Bullshit Police.

 

Or it could be the confidence of that "feel" that has you launching the 3-series off the side of a cliff.

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S - San Marino Red / Parchment - #26519
non-nav - spoiler - wheel locks - splash guards - PIAA 19169s - K&N air filter (33-2178) - Zaino baby!
Pics of my car

 

I agree with Tom2. The feeling you get from a well balanced RWD car are just a little more confidence inspiring in the twisties. When you can adjust the tail end with the throttle it's a great feeling. You can do that in a FWD car as well but not an auto. There is too much lag between input and reaction to inspire confidence in the CL-S. I'm not putting the car down, I just know it's limitations and do not wish to exceed them.

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01 CL-S NightHawk Black/Ebony Bowling Ball Interior
Xephyr CAI
Polarg M6
Solaris 9005
Cupholder Ver 2.0 Part#77237-SOK-A02


gto2050 - The voice of absolutely no reason whatsoever!

 

Well, I'm with the RWD story, but then again, I drove the Bimmer for twice as long as the FWD cars.

I could always use the throttle to control the "line" through the turns, and felt a lot more comfortable letting the back hang out. It was also a lot easier to set up the cars weight balance on entry to a curve by using brakes, throttle, and appropriate over/under steer.

I notice that I'm always pulling in the FWD, where I always feel like I'm using the throttle more as a control input in a RWD. I think that there is more ability to "control" the weight transfer and attitude in a RWD than in a FWD.

I will take a FWD to about 95% of its limit with great ease, but I feel that the RWD (at least one that I've driven awhile) can be driven at 99.9% of capability.

The only final comment I would make would concern some of the new AWD cars -- from the impressions I've gotten and from seeing the new WRX, I think there is something to be said for a good all wheel drive setup. Haven't had enough time (like a year) to fully comment, but those things really hang with tenacity and little slip.


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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

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