Guess how long it takes a tranny to burn up with no fluid in it!!
#42
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Its all good man, thanks for all the well wishers. It's time to leave the acura family forever unfortunately. Once you've been snake bitten like this, you can't continue to put your faith into a car manufacturer even if it wasn't the car that was at fault and was the workmanship.
#47
Banned
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My condolences to a great car lost and I think the Acura community should be proud that you didn't give up on the car as fast as most people would. (After the first incident)
With regard to next choices, I personally do not care for Infiniti's or BMW's. The VQ engine does have a habit of burning oil after higher miles...my sisters car would puff plumes of smoke upon start up and later dissipate upon driving. The dealer (Bloomington Infiniti) claimed this is normal. You should research that further.
As for BMW...those are high maintenance item and no matter how well you take care of it, things go wrong. I had a 1997 E39 540iA which failed after 112,000 miles. I used to swear by German "Driving Machines" until I got the Acura.
What other cars have you considered? I know that this is a controversial suggestion but have you thought of a Lexus?
With regard to next choices, I personally do not care for Infiniti's or BMW's. The VQ engine does have a habit of burning oil after higher miles...my sisters car would puff plumes of smoke upon start up and later dissipate upon driving. The dealer (Bloomington Infiniti) claimed this is normal. You should research that further.
As for BMW...those are high maintenance item and no matter how well you take care of it, things go wrong. I had a 1997 E39 540iA which failed after 112,000 miles. I used to swear by German "Driving Machines" until I got the Acura.
What other cars have you considered? I know that this is a controversial suggestion but have you thought of a Lexus?
#49
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Eh, the lexus doesn't tickle my fancy. Id like awd or fwd and the 250 is too slow and they dont make the 350 in awd.
I was thinking of a cts but don't like the style.
As for the vq engines, they are known to destroy oil much quicker than the j series engines. My wife has an 04g35x (she travels too) and it has 143k miles on it and I have to change the oil every 5k with synthetic and most of those are highway miles.
Infinitis are pretty reliable just a little more to maintain especially the awd version.
I was thinking of a cts but don't like the style.
As for the vq engines, they are known to destroy oil much quicker than the j series engines. My wife has an 04g35x (she travels too) and it has 143k miles on it and I have to change the oil every 5k with synthetic and most of those are highway miles.
Infinitis are pretty reliable just a little more to maintain especially the awd version.
#50
Safety Car
Hmmm, if the car didn't have transmission fluid in it, the car wouldn't shift between gears (automatic requires pressure). So it had fluid but maybe not enough.
Sorry for what happened. I would go to the dealer and make them replace it.
Sorry for what happened. I would go to the dealer and make them replace it.
This isn't a joke, whoever is familiar with my car situations knows that I've been dealing with a lot these past few months.
Well the ordeal continues.... Today driving home from Hilton Head, SC my car stops shifting on the highway and my wife tells me something is shooting out from under my car.
Well I pull over and find that my transmission is pretty much on fire and the dipstick is boneeee dry.
So yes, while my engine was being replaced, the dealership forgot to put transmission fluid back into the car. The car made it about 1,700 miles and now the transmission is destroyed.
I seriously have no more words to express my emotions now.
Well the ordeal continues.... Today driving home from Hilton Head, SC my car stops shifting on the highway and my wife tells me something is shooting out from under my car.
Well I pull over and find that my transmission is pretty much on fire and the dipstick is boneeee dry.
So yes, while my engine was being replaced, the dealership forgot to put transmission fluid back into the car. The car made it about 1,700 miles and now the transmission is destroyed.
I seriously have no more words to express my emotions now.
#51
Safety Car
#52
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I clarified in one of my other posts, when I said no fluid, I didn't technically mean no fluid. I used poetic licenses to make the thread sound more severe than actuality, lol my bad.
I just meant it was low the 2-3 quarts that is lost during the engine swap and that is why the dipstick showed no fluid level.
I just meant it was low the 2-3 quarts that is lost during the engine swap and that is why the dipstick showed no fluid level.
#54
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Eh, I don't typically buy new cars, especially a bmw because of the markup. I also put mucho miles on the car like I did with the CL and the year warranty means nothing, its the mileage warranty that I need to worry about.
Oh well, that's neither here nor there. I'll just drive the TL till August when the lease is up then I'll pull the trigger on the new ride.
So what's your verdict on this Civic? What do you think happened to the tranny? You're always good for a few insights.
Oh well, that's neither here nor there. I'll just drive the TL till August when the lease is up then I'll pull the trigger on the new ride.
So what's your verdict on this Civic? What do you think happened to the tranny? You're always good for a few insights.
What has already been posted pretty much sums it up. If there was no fluid, the car wouldnt move. Whether the fluid leaked out or they didnt top it off though - thats an entirely different matter.
Due to your miles, Id stay far away from European cars. Dont you already have a 3rd gen TL? Id pick up a low maintenance cheap car (a la Civic, Accord) for the miles.
Or, pick up an Odyssey tranny and swap it in (at a reputable shop - youre already in VA so I suggest taking it to Paul). Doing that is around the same price as an early 90s Civic and in Pauls hands you shouldnt have anything to worry about. Hes the only person I trust with my car.
#55
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I also meant to ask anyone who has had their transmission go out. Did your car look like it was overheating and smoking a lot, I mean it almost looked like the tranny was on fire there was so much smoke coming out?
I have a video of this, I'll upload it soon.
I have a video of this, I'll upload it soon.
#56
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
yea man if I had all the headaches you have had all in that short span of time I'd be questioning everything as well.
I think u should get rid of the car tho since it's been touched by so many goofballs, and get a different car so u can start on a clean slate.
Also it's in ur bet interest to have a person at the dealership or personal mechanic that u can personally go to to talk about ur ride/ issues.
I did not do that with my previous car and had 3 time more problems than you have had with ur CL.
It's was a 94 ford probe modded up the ass, KLZE motor swap etc. a frigging nightmare.
all because I wasn't a little proactive on finding a person/place to bring my car in the event of an anomaly.
So my advise would be to line up someone u trust and know does good work. You'd have better odds finding this person if the car has been out for more than 4 years.... then the likelyhood of them knowing your particular car would be very good and thus they're going to do very good work on ur car.
I think u should get rid of the car tho since it's been touched by so many goofballs, and get a different car so u can start on a clean slate.
Also it's in ur bet interest to have a person at the dealership or personal mechanic that u can personally go to to talk about ur ride/ issues.
I did not do that with my previous car and had 3 time more problems than you have had with ur CL.
It's was a 94 ford probe modded up the ass, KLZE motor swap etc. a frigging nightmare.
all because I wasn't a little proactive on finding a person/place to bring my car in the event of an anomaly.
So my advise would be to line up someone u trust and know does good work. You'd have better odds finding this person if the car has been out for more than 4 years.... then the likelyhood of them knowing your particular car would be very good and thus they're going to do very good work on ur car.
#57
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
yea man if I had all the headaches you have had all in that short span of time I'd be questioning everything as well.
I think u should get rid of the car tho since it's been touched by so many goofballs, and get a different car so u can start on a clean slate.
Also it's in ur bet interest to have a person at the dealership or personal mechanic that u can personally go to to talk about ur ride/ issues.
I did not do that with my previous car and had 3 time more problems than you have had with ur CL.
It's was a 94 ford probe modded up the ass, KLZE motor swap etc. a frigging nightmare.
all because I wasn't a little proactive on finding a person/place to bring my car in the event of an anomaly.
So my advise would be to line up someone u trust and know does good work. You'd have better odds finding this person if the car has been out for more than 4 years.... then the likelyhood of them knowing your particular car would be very good and thus they're going to do very good work on ur car.
I think u should get rid of the car tho since it's been touched by so many goofballs, and get a different car so u can start on a clean slate.
Also it's in ur bet interest to have a person at the dealership or personal mechanic that u can personally go to to talk about ur ride/ issues.
I did not do that with my previous car and had 3 time more problems than you have had with ur CL.
It's was a 94 ford probe modded up the ass, KLZE motor swap etc. a frigging nightmare.
all because I wasn't a little proactive on finding a person/place to bring my car in the event of an anomaly.
So my advise would be to line up someone u trust and know does good work. You'd have better odds finding this person if the car has been out for more than 4 years.... then the likelyhood of them knowing your particular car would be very good and thus they're going to do very good work on ur car.
I mean, talking to all these techs they seemed like knowledgeable guys but in the end run, Im back to square one after they forget to do something.
As for the car, like I said before, Im cutting my loses, there is no way in hell Im fixing this car again even if it was offered to be done 100% paid for. (Which it wont)
#59
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
^ ![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
I dont think Id complain about owning a Ford product.
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
I dont think Id complain about owning a Ford product.
#60
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ford got a bum wrap because most people categorized the auto bailouts as all "American Car Companies" and Ford is just that and American Car company. But people fail to realize that they didn't need a bailout and have been very proactive with the advancement of their vehicles.
I think the Fusion is a nice car, I just don't know if I can control my body to actually buy american. I know it sounds lame.
I think the Fusion is a nice car, I just don't know if I can control my body to actually buy american. I know it sounds lame.
#61
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
I know what you mean. I was seriously considering the new Mustang but to get some of the same features I currently have, it turns into a $40k car. I dont think its worth that much, since the interior - while a huge improvement - is still not that great (i.e. - plastic).
If you still want some luxury, and you dont want new go for a used G35. I personally prefer the previous gen 4 door over the coupe.
Are you opposed to a manual transmission equipped car? Id honestly go for an 03-05 Accord coupe 6MT or an 06-07 sedan 6MT. They are low maintenance, frugal, a pretty damn comfortable. I prefer the interior on the Accord over the CL honestly.
#63
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
yea my dad got the fusion v6 when it came out and hasn't had a problem with it yet. 90000kms and going strong...
and for a 3.0 220hp motor. that thing pulls with its 6 speed trans... damn ford and there 6 speed autos.
the taurus x is AS FAST AS A TYPE S CL..
I raced my buddy's dad's and that thing stuck around to my suprise.... ford packs the PUNCH in their motors.
all of which are UNDERRATED (don't believe me??? check the ford 5.0 rating from the factory... and then go see a dyno chart of the same car)... whereas honda is overrated if anything
and for a 3.0 220hp motor. that thing pulls with its 6 speed trans... damn ford and there 6 speed autos.
the taurus x is AS FAST AS A TYPE S CL..
I raced my buddy's dad's and that thing stuck around to my suprise.... ford packs the PUNCH in their motors.
all of which are UNDERRATED (don't believe me??? check the ford 5.0 rating from the factory... and then go see a dyno chart of the same car)... whereas honda is overrated if anything
#64
Senior Moderator
Regional Coordinator
(Mid-Atlantic)
Regional Coordinator
(Mid-Atlantic)
iTrader: (6)
If you don't want Lexus, look at the Toyota Avalon
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#65
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
yea my dad got the fusion v6 when it came out and hasn't had a problem with it yet. 90000kms and going strong...
and for a 3.0 220hp motor. that thing pulls with its 6 speed trans... damn ford and there 6 speed autos.
the taurus x is AS FAST AS A TYPE S CL..
I raced my buddy's dad's and that thing stuck around to my suprise.... ford packs the PUNCH in their motors.
all of which are UNDERRATED (don't believe me??? check the ford 5.0 rating from the factory... and then go see a dyno chart of the same car)... whereas honda is overrated if anything
and for a 3.0 220hp motor. that thing pulls with its 6 speed trans... damn ford and there 6 speed autos.
the taurus x is AS FAST AS A TYPE S CL..
I raced my buddy's dad's and that thing stuck around to my suprise.... ford packs the PUNCH in their motors.
all of which are UNDERRATED (don't believe me??? check the ford 5.0 rating from the factory... and then go see a dyno chart of the same car)... whereas honda is overrated if anything
![Scratch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scratch.gif)
No, they are usually on par if not underestimating power numbers. Look at the Accord, Civic, and 3rd gen TL-S.
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=415957
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=403644
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=831240
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=686783
#66
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
lol OK so many they don't lie anymore..
BUT ford.
THEY LIE
watch this video!!!!!!!! it'll make u fall in love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irCGB5bi0IY
BUT ford.
THEY LIE
watch this video!!!!!!!! it'll make u fall in love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irCGB5bi0IY
#68
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Its widely know that the 5.0 is underestimated, like many of the cars on the market. I love the 5.0, but the price doesnt justify the interior [lack of] quality.
And the Taurus SHO is a nice car as well, until you see the price tag and the fact that its still a 14 second car.
Street - Heres a quote about drivetrain losses:
Basically drivetrain losses cannot be generalized.
And the Taurus SHO is a nice car as well, until you see the price tag and the fact that its still a 14 second car.
Street - Heres a quote about drivetrain losses:
Originally Posted by http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=75062
The whole concept of a fixed percentage drivetrain loss in evaluating chassis dyno tests is one of the most absurd things i've ever heard of in my experience as a powertrain engineer, and is the motivation behind this post.
First, a primer: energy (or in the case relevant to this discussion -- power) cannot be created or destroyed. Simple enough? Where then, does that power that is transmitted from the crank, to the wheels, and ultimately to the road, go? Most of it goes to friction and therefore heat.
Second, an illustration: For argument's sake, take a stock 90HP TDI, and we'll arbitrarily say that it has a 15% driveline loss. That means that the engine would be developing about 104HP (90/1.15) at the crank. The loss through the drivetrain was 14HP (104-90). Now, you do a bunch of engine mods without touching the drivetrain, and you now measure, say, 135HP at the wheels. Adding the customary 15% to refer back to the crank, you get 155HP, but the loss through the drivetrain is now 20HP, a difference of 6HP, WHEN NOTHING HAS BEEN TOUCHED THERE!
Do you now see the absurdity of this concept?
Firstly, may I submit that 2WD vehicles with manual transmissions have very good mechanical efficiencies, as evidenced by the fact that 2 quarts of non-pressurized, non-circulating oil is sufficient to keep the entire transmission cool and lubricated. In fact, to attach a number to it, manual transmissions are usually over 90% efficient, and many over 95%. That implies a loss through the transmission of between 5.3-11%. Even the best automatic transmissions with lock-up TCs achieve between 80-85% efficiencies.
Secondly, may I submit that contrary to popular (mis)conception, flywheel weights, rim weights/diameters and tire type (should) have very little contribution to the HP numbers on a rolling road dyno. Heavy flywheels and rims act as inertial dampers but do not destroy or create energy, nor transform it to heat, as would have to happen to if it is to result in a greater or lesser HP value on the dyno. Tires will shed energy in the form of heat by the simple contact with the ground and also though the flexing of the treads and sidewalls, but this amount is negligable in the scheme of things that it is generally ignored unless you are an engineer for an OEM, race car team or tire manufacturer. More on inertia in a moment.
Thirdly, I hope the above underscores that an accurate measurement of drivetrain loss cannot be overgeneralized. For one, it is not constant across the entire measurement range within a given run. In fact, friction increases roughly linearly with speed. In automotive engineering speak, this is quantified by a parameter called the FMEP (friction mean effective pressure), and although it's is not called that, it is manifested in many engine graphs you may read without even realising it. Frictional losses are different at 2000RPM to 4000 RPM, etc., etc. You cannot, therefore, equate the drivetrain loss of a car whose engine is turning at 8000RPM at the maximum rated power to one turning at 4000RPM, because on the basis of the RPM alone, frictional losses at 8000RPM are roughly double that at 4000RPM.
That said, yes, it's true: gear selection when performing a rolling road dyno DOES have an impact on HP, but it is not usually borne in dyno results, because the difference is small and within the inevitable variation from test-to-test and also measurement error.
Further, engine/driveline design considerations mean that there is a wide variance in frictional losses between different cars; the comparison of mechanical efficiencies between manual- and automatic transmissions have already been discussed above. Cars with AWD, automatic trannies, and large-displacement/many-cylinder engines will tend to have higher frictional losses than small-displacement, 2WD, manuals.
Finally, The importance of "motored" or coast-down tests in a dyno evaluation is important and needs to be stresssed, because that is what accounts for your true frictional losses and balances the inertial "ledger sheet" of the different driveline components, including the wheels and tires. The energy that is absorbed in the form of inertia in the flywheel/wheels/tires, etc. is accounted for ("given back," to oversimplify) in this coast-down, and when doing a street (i.e. butt) dyno, also accounts for the very important aerodynamic drag.
First, a primer: energy (or in the case relevant to this discussion -- power) cannot be created or destroyed. Simple enough? Where then, does that power that is transmitted from the crank, to the wheels, and ultimately to the road, go? Most of it goes to friction and therefore heat.
Second, an illustration: For argument's sake, take a stock 90HP TDI, and we'll arbitrarily say that it has a 15% driveline loss. That means that the engine would be developing about 104HP (90/1.15) at the crank. The loss through the drivetrain was 14HP (104-90). Now, you do a bunch of engine mods without touching the drivetrain, and you now measure, say, 135HP at the wheels. Adding the customary 15% to refer back to the crank, you get 155HP, but the loss through the drivetrain is now 20HP, a difference of 6HP, WHEN NOTHING HAS BEEN TOUCHED THERE!
Do you now see the absurdity of this concept?
Firstly, may I submit that 2WD vehicles with manual transmissions have very good mechanical efficiencies, as evidenced by the fact that 2 quarts of non-pressurized, non-circulating oil is sufficient to keep the entire transmission cool and lubricated. In fact, to attach a number to it, manual transmissions are usually over 90% efficient, and many over 95%. That implies a loss through the transmission of between 5.3-11%. Even the best automatic transmissions with lock-up TCs achieve between 80-85% efficiencies.
Secondly, may I submit that contrary to popular (mis)conception, flywheel weights, rim weights/diameters and tire type (should) have very little contribution to the HP numbers on a rolling road dyno. Heavy flywheels and rims act as inertial dampers but do not destroy or create energy, nor transform it to heat, as would have to happen to if it is to result in a greater or lesser HP value on the dyno. Tires will shed energy in the form of heat by the simple contact with the ground and also though the flexing of the treads and sidewalls, but this amount is negligable in the scheme of things that it is generally ignored unless you are an engineer for an OEM, race car team or tire manufacturer. More on inertia in a moment.
Thirdly, I hope the above underscores that an accurate measurement of drivetrain loss cannot be overgeneralized. For one, it is not constant across the entire measurement range within a given run. In fact, friction increases roughly linearly with speed. In automotive engineering speak, this is quantified by a parameter called the FMEP (friction mean effective pressure), and although it's is not called that, it is manifested in many engine graphs you may read without even realising it. Frictional losses are different at 2000RPM to 4000 RPM, etc., etc. You cannot, therefore, equate the drivetrain loss of a car whose engine is turning at 8000RPM at the maximum rated power to one turning at 4000RPM, because on the basis of the RPM alone, frictional losses at 8000RPM are roughly double that at 4000RPM.
That said, yes, it's true: gear selection when performing a rolling road dyno DOES have an impact on HP, but it is not usually borne in dyno results, because the difference is small and within the inevitable variation from test-to-test and also measurement error.
Further, engine/driveline design considerations mean that there is a wide variance in frictional losses between different cars; the comparison of mechanical efficiencies between manual- and automatic transmissions have already been discussed above. Cars with AWD, automatic trannies, and large-displacement/many-cylinder engines will tend to have higher frictional losses than small-displacement, 2WD, manuals.
Finally, The importance of "motored" or coast-down tests in a dyno evaluation is important and needs to be stresssed, because that is what accounts for your true frictional losses and balances the inertial "ledger sheet" of the different driveline components, including the wheels and tires. The energy that is absorbed in the form of inertia in the flywheel/wheels/tires, etc. is accounted for ("given back," to oversimplify) in this coast-down, and when doing a street (i.e. butt) dyno, also accounts for the very important aerodynamic drag.
#71
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Sorry Pits for running rampant within your thread.
Any news about the car? Where is it now?
Any news about the car? Where is it now?
#72
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Car is stuck in some hicktown called Hillsville, VA at a Hampton Inn. I left it there and drove home with my wife. I have a transport company coming to pick it up in the next few days to bring it home.
I am still wondering about the smoking transmission if anyone has ever had that happen on one of their failed transmissions.
I am still wondering about the smoking transmission if anyone has ever had that happen on one of their failed transmissions.
#74
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I wish Hillsville wasn't so far away. I would've told you to tow it here so its at least in a safe spot.
#75
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ha, to be honest at this point, I hope it wasn't in a safe place. I wouldn't mind a tree accidentally falling on it, or some homeless man deciding to try and steal it even with a busted tranny. But I guess one can only wish.
#77
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
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What about something from Hyundai? A used Genesis or Genesis coupe?
Big F'n
. Not that I'm biased or anything.
It's been covered already. If you'd put as much time/money as pits has with no results, you'd want to get rid of it as well.
I'd suggest small claims, but I don't think you'll have a strong enough case.
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
It's been covered already. If you'd put as much time/money as pits has with no results, you'd want to get rid of it as well.
I'd suggest small claims, but I don't think you'll have a strong enough case.
#78
........
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Sorry to hear this man, I see your for sale thread, hopefully you get some money from this whole ordeal, Why not just get an older car and rack up mileage on that? No sense in getting a new car if you travel alot especially with the lease restriction mileage and whatnot.
Anyway, best of luck in whatever you do, Azine is rooting for ya
![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
#79
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
^
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
#80
Senior Moderator
Damnnnn what a nightmare, i feel your pain!
As for a new car (cuz i wouldn't dare fix that moneypit after this last incident), I've worked with both Ford and BMW. I'd pull the trigger on a 335 in a second if i could. JB3 tuner, bigger intercooler, oil cooler (all but the 1st generation 335's come with them), downpipe, and intake and your car is faster than an M6. And if something goes wrong, you unplug the tuner and its untraceable, and if u had the previous mods i mentioned done at a dealer its warrantied. I honestly never really understood the hype and the price tag of a BMW until i started working for them and driving them, they are awesome vehicles.
Ford on the other hand, good but not that great. Although my coworkers top of the line fusion sport is pretty badass, the pricetag doesn't justify the tradeoff for what you're getting.
Either way, good luck on whichever direction you go with, you deserve a positive experience!
As for a new car (cuz i wouldn't dare fix that moneypit after this last incident), I've worked with both Ford and BMW. I'd pull the trigger on a 335 in a second if i could. JB3 tuner, bigger intercooler, oil cooler (all but the 1st generation 335's come with them), downpipe, and intake and your car is faster than an M6. And if something goes wrong, you unplug the tuner and its untraceable, and if u had the previous mods i mentioned done at a dealer its warrantied. I honestly never really understood the hype and the price tag of a BMW until i started working for them and driving them, they are awesome vehicles.
Ford on the other hand, good but not that great. Although my coworkers top of the line fusion sport is pretty badass, the pricetag doesn't justify the tradeoff for what you're getting.
Either way, good luck on whichever direction you go with, you deserve a positive experience!