Got a fooking ticket this morning!
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Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
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Got a fooking ticket this morning!
Man, oh man what a pain in the ass. 
Got a ticket for moving violation this morning, failure to obey a stop sign, basically I rolled through it. I drive on this street everyday and never stop on this stop sign, always slow down and look, its a T intersection, but never completelly stop. I guess cop was just sitting there somewhere and I missed him today and rolled through following the two other cars in the front that rolled through it, but he caught up to me and pulled me over. F ing A. At first, I did not even know why he pulled me over, I thought he pulled over for a different stop sign which I did stop on, but after he wrote the ticket and we had a conversation about it, I figured out which one it was, and there is nothing I could say to defend myself because I knew I was wrong.
So now its 94 bucks and 3 points. I guess I can deal with the 94, but these points will just have to go. Is there any way to fight this in court?
Got a ticket for moving violation this morning, failure to obey a stop sign, basically I rolled through it. I drive on this street everyday and never stop on this stop sign, always slow down and look, its a T intersection, but never completelly stop. I guess cop was just sitting there somewhere and I missed him today and rolled through following the two other cars in the front that rolled through it, but he caught up to me and pulled me over. F ing A. At first, I did not even know why he pulled me over, I thought he pulled over for a different stop sign which I did stop on, but after he wrote the ticket and we had a conversation about it, I figured out which one it was, and there is nothing I could say to defend myself because I knew I was wrong. So now its 94 bucks and 3 points. I guess I can deal with the 94, but these points will just have to go. Is there any way to fight this in court?
Meat Popsicle
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 386
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From: Chicagoland, Illinois
try stopping at the sign. I have a corner house, and there is a stop sign there. All three of the crashes that I have seen at that sign involved someone rolling the stop sign.
Every time they say, " I looked as I rolled it..."
Every time they say, " I looked as I rolled it..."
Xe- For Better Hwy Vision
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,265
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From: Valley Forge, PA.
..and who wanted to race on Sat?
YO sorry to hear about the tix. Go back to the site and take photos at all angles. Were there any trees, shrubs, obstructions that made it hard to see right at the stop sign?
I got out of a ticket one time because the cop said I went though the sign, but told the judge that I was moving past the sign to see around the shrubs and parked cars for on coming traffic. I had pics and the judge dropped the whole thing. For the reduction of points it's worth it.
YO sorry to hear about the tix. Go back to the site and take photos at all angles. Were there any trees, shrubs, obstructions that made it hard to see right at the stop sign?
I got out of a ticket one time because the cop said I went though the sign, but told the judge that I was moving past the sign to see around the shrubs and parked cars for on coming traffic. I had pics and the judge dropped the whole thing. For the reduction of points it's worth it.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
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Well, I was traveling on the street, going straight, and the stop sign is there just for 'I dont know' for what 
just I guess to slow the traffic down. The stop is at a point where a street from the left comes in, a park is on the other side of the street i am following along. I dont think anything was obstructing my view, I know its there, I drive through every morning, but usually look carefully, but today I did not. The cop told me had I even turned my head to look, he would not have stopped me, but since I made no attempt, he pulled me over. I mustve spaced.
For those of you ready to flame, I always stop or slowing down for stop signs and look, I am by no means a reckless driver, its just that really there is no traffic there ever, especially in the mornig and its not dangerous to proceed. That is why the cop is sitting there because he knows people roll through it, I was just stupid enough to get caught.
just I guess to slow the traffic down. The stop is at a point where a street from the left comes in, a park is on the other side of the street i am following along. I dont think anything was obstructing my view, I know its there, I drive through every morning, but usually look carefully, but today I did not. The cop told me had I even turned my head to look, he would not have stopped me, but since I made no attempt, he pulled me over. I mustve spaced. For those of you ready to flame, I always stop or slowing down for stop signs and look, I am by no means a reckless driver, its just that really there is no traffic there ever, especially in the mornig and its not dangerous to proceed. That is why the cop is sitting there because he knows people roll through it, I was just stupid enough to get caught.
Old timer
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,224
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From: .
The one and only ticket I've gotten (thankfully) was a Rolled Through Stopsign one.
It was at the bottom of a hill and I stopped with the person in front of me then just let off the brake as I went around the corner.
And the corner I was turning around was free of oncoming traffic. It's not like I rolled into the intersection, I went around the corner.
Somehow that equated to $75 and two points in the pig's mind.
Whatever it was like four years ago. Wow it's been a while. Guess I have a lot to be thankful for.
-J
It was at the bottom of a hill and I stopped with the person in front of me then just let off the brake as I went around the corner.
And the corner I was turning around was free of oncoming traffic. It's not like I rolled into the intersection, I went around the corner.
Somehow that equated to $75 and two points in the pig's mind.
Whatever it was like four years ago. Wow it's been a while. Guess I have a lot to be thankful for.
-J
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 716
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From: Hialeah, FL
5 seconds it takes for you to stop = Money saved and points up thier a$$.
I try to always stop @ the damn signs.
Talk to the cop about the ticket and maybe he wont show to court? If not, just try to take the pic's as posted and say like 100 hail Mary's before court....Happy reckless driving.
I try to always stop @ the damn signs.
Talk to the cop about the ticket and maybe he wont show to court? If not, just try to take the pic's as posted and say like 100 hail Mary's before court.
...Happy reckless driving.
*Hella* isn't a word.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,898
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From: T.W.D.Y.A, CA
Try to fight it if you cna. but you gotta realize that it's always the little things that f*ck you up. The California Roll, as we've come to know it is as bad as peeding and driving recklessly on the freeway. Liek Dyno said, 5 seconds of time not only saves u money but time.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
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Like I said guys, I slow down almost always for the stop signs, but I did not this time and got pulled over. Happens to everyone once in while I guess. The real question becomes do I have any real chance to get rid of the points by going to court?
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Hialeah, FL
Originally posted by BigPimp'sTypeS:
<STRONG>Like I said guys, I slow down almost always for the stop signs, but I did not this time and got pulled over. Happens to everyone once in while I guess. The real question becomes do I have any real chance to get rid of the points by going to court?</STRONG>
<STRONG>Like I said guys, I slow down almost always for the stop signs, but I did not this time and got pulled over. Happens to everyone once in while I guess. The real question becomes do I have any real chance to get rid of the points by going to court?</STRONG>
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
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Originally posted by Dyno_CL-S:
<STRONG>
Depends on how the Court system works in your area. For instance, whenever i get a ticket here in Miami i always opt for Court because they always withhold the points and dish out fine/court cost w/ traffic school. I went to Court last week for doing 85 in a 55 zone. If i would've paid the ticket it would've came out to $280 with 4 points. I toke it to Court, my plead was "No contest you Honor", and i walked away with a $130 fine/court cost and have to attend a 4 hour traffic school. But then again that's Miami and maybe the same could not be said but NYC, CALI, or whatever. Hope this helped.</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Depends on how the Court system works in your area. For instance, whenever i get a ticket here in Miami i always opt for Court because they always withhold the points and dish out fine/court cost w/ traffic school. I went to Court last week for doing 85 in a 55 zone. If i would've paid the ticket it would've came out to $280 with 4 points. I toke it to Court, my plead was "No contest you Honor", and i walked away with a $130 fine/court cost and have to attend a 4 hour traffic school. But then again that's Miami and maybe the same could not be said but NYC, CALI, or whatever. Hope this helped.</STRONG>
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 716
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From: Hialeah, FL
Originally posted by BigPimp'sTypeS:
<STRONG>
Enlighten me, whats a No Contest Plea.</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Enlighten me, whats a No Contest Plea.</STRONG>
. Ho-ray for the Court system. :p
....................
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,063
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From: united states
Don't even try to go to court and fight it...The cops ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, as they get away with ANYTHING!
Take the fine, then go to www.driverschoolonline.com
For a nominal fee you to take a class online, and get some points back...
Good luck dude!
Take the fine, then go to www.driverschoolonline.com
For a nominal fee you to take a class online, and get some points back...
Good luck dude!
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,121
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From: Overland Park, Kansas
Not trying to flame you but the reason why they ticket rolling thru stop signs is because some people abuse it too much. Like the cops said if you look and go, it's not that big of a problem. It's the not look and go's that are deadly. But those are few.
The biggest annoyance is those that look and go away way. You're coming down the street at 45mph and they come out in the intersection in front of you in your lane less than 100 yards out. That's annoying. Fine, yes. The points? Three sounds like a lot. Go to court and plead no contest and ask to have the points reduced, is your best bet.
The biggest annoyance is those that look and go away way. You're coming down the street at 45mph and they come out in the intersection in front of you in your lane less than 100 yards out. That's annoying. Fine, yes. The points? Three sounds like a lot. Go to court and plead no contest and ask to have the points reduced, is your best bet.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,322
Likes: 1
From: UCLA
Originally posted by lilfeat:
<STRONG>try stopping at the sign. I have a corner house, and there is a stop sign there. All three of the crashes that I have seen at that sign involved someone rolling the stop sign.
Every time they say, " I looked as I rolled it..."</STRONG>
<STRONG>try stopping at the sign. I have a corner house, and there is a stop sign there. All three of the crashes that I have seen at that sign involved someone rolling the stop sign.
Every time they say, " I looked as I rolled it..."</STRONG>
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,233
Likes: 8,064
From: Haudenosaunee Land
Some professional advice-don't bother with the pix if you live nearby b/c then you are asking for a trial b/c the judge will not be able to determine a question of fact (which is left for juries) concerning whether you could see the stop sign or not. Second, if your license is clean, go in and talk to the municipality's attorney. Don't offer to go to driving school (in NYS=6 hours on 1 Saturday!); tell him/her you're looking for a non-moving violation. In NYS, the town or whatever, is allowed to charge you the fine but take a reduced plea. By granting a non-moving violation here, the town gets to keep the $$. Conversely, if a moving violation, then the STATE gets to keep the $$. So, you see the motivation for the town to let you have a non-moving violation. This may be the same in PA. Good luck and email if you need more help as I am an atty.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
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Originally posted by Chief F1 Fan:
<STRONG>Some professional advice-don't bother with the pix if you live nearby b/c then you are asking for a trial b/c the judge will not be able to determine a question of fact (which is left for juries) concerning whether you could see the stop sign or not. Second, if your license is clean, go in and talk to the municipality's attorney. Don't offer to go to driving school (in NYS=6 hours on 1 Saturday!); tell him/her you're looking for a non-moving violation. In NYS, the town or whatever, is allowed to charge you the fine but take a reduced plea. By granting a non-moving violation here, the town gets to keep the $$. Conversely, if a moving violation, then the STATE gets to keep the $$. So, you see the motivation for the town to let you have a non-moving violation. This may be the same in PA. Good luck and email if you need more help as I am an atty.</STRONG>
<STRONG>Some professional advice-don't bother with the pix if you live nearby b/c then you are asking for a trial b/c the judge will not be able to determine a question of fact (which is left for juries) concerning whether you could see the stop sign or not. Second, if your license is clean, go in and talk to the municipality's attorney. Don't offer to go to driving school (in NYS=6 hours on 1 Saturday!); tell him/her you're looking for a non-moving violation. In NYS, the town or whatever, is allowed to charge you the fine but take a reduced plea. By granting a non-moving violation here, the town gets to keep the $$. Conversely, if a moving violation, then the STATE gets to keep the $$. So, you see the motivation for the town to let you have a non-moving violation. This may be the same in PA. Good luck and email if you need more help as I am an atty.</STRONG>
Oh, BTW I would go to Philly Traffic Court so I guess if I plead for non-moving violation, the money will stay in Philly, which is what the court wants, right?
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 807
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Here in AZ, speeding is the ONLY 3 point ticket, all other "moving violations" are 2 points. And then of course the infamous four 8-point citations. Just wondering if this differed, I know traffic laws are state dependent. Anyone else?
Contagious
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,184
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From: Limerick, PA
Even if you are wrong, you should ALWAYS fight the ticket. Since this is a relatively minor offense, the judge may reduce the fine and give you no points. That's what usually happens. Judges in the area (I live right outside of Philly) typically do not have the time to waste on these minor traffic offenses, so you should definately fight it. You may or may not win, but you'll never know if you don't try. Good luck!!!!
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
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Originally posted by CCns24:
<STRONG>Even if you are wrong, you should ALWAYS fight the ticket. Since this is a relatively minor offense, the judge may reduce the fine and give you no points. That's what usually happens. Judges in the area (I live right outside of Philly) typically do not have the time to waste on these minor traffic offenses, so you should definately fight it. You may or may not win, but you'll never know if you don't try. Good luck!!!!</STRONG>
<STRONG>Even if you are wrong, you should ALWAYS fight the ticket. Since this is a relatively minor offense, the judge may reduce the fine and give you no points. That's what usually happens. Judges in the area (I live right outside of Philly) typically do not have the time to waste on these minor traffic offenses, so you should definately fight it. You may or may not win, but you'll never know if you don't try. Good luck!!!!</STRONG>
Contagious
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,184
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From: Limerick, PA
I wanted to go to the Philly meet on Sat. but I got roped into helping my brother move. I was pretty pissed. I spent all morning cleaning my car, which took forever because I had to clean the paint off of it (F'N PENNDOT painted lines and didn't post any signs about it). BTW, if this happens to anyone on this board, use Oven cleaner to get the paint off, it really works!?! And it didn't screw up my paint. After all that shit, my bro asks me to help him move. He said it would only take about an hour. Three hours later, we were done and I missed the meet!!
Anyway I was pretty pissed that I didn't get to go. This was the second meet I made plans to go to and then coudn't (the other being the big meet at Park Ave.) Hopefully I can get together with everyone at a meet soon. Again, good luck with the ticket!!!
Anyway I was pretty pissed that I didn't get to go. This was the second meet I made plans to go to and then coudn't (the other being the big meet at Park Ave.) Hopefully I can get together with everyone at a meet soon. Again, good luck with the ticket!!!
Contagious
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,184
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From: Limerick, PA
It may not have been that exciting, but it's always fun to meet new people. I will definately make the next meet. If anyone is in the Philly area, I would be more than happy to get together. If you ever see a Gold CL-S in King of Prussia , it's probably me. Later!!
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,121
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From: Overland Park, Kansas
Originally posted by CCns24:
<STRONG>Even if you are wrong, you should ALWAYS fight the ticket. Since this is a relatively minor offense, the judge may reduce the fine and give you no points. That's what usually happens. Judges in the area (I live right outside of Philly) typically do not have the time to waste on these minor traffic offenses, so you should definately fight it. You may or may not win, but you'll never know if you don't try. Good luck!!!!</STRONG>
<STRONG>Even if you are wrong, you should ALWAYS fight the ticket. Since this is a relatively minor offense, the judge may reduce the fine and give you no points. That's what usually happens. Judges in the area (I live right outside of Philly) typically do not have the time to waste on these minor traffic offenses, so you should definately fight it. You may or may not win, but you'll never know if you don't try. Good luck!!!!</STRONG>
Sorry I just had to....
[ 07-24-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,233
Likes: 8,064
From: Haudenosaunee Land
BigPimp'sTypeS-don't plead no contest; plead guilty to a lesser, non-moving violation such as an equipment infraction (loud muffler) or even a parking ticket. Some cities don't let you plead anything down. Do you know a Philly atty? You can even visit the state's website for the department of motor vehicles to see how the points system works. Do NOT take any points, you shouldn't have to if, and big if, you have a clean license. You are right in your assessment that the city has a big time motivation to knock it down if PA's system works like NY's. Carry on Starfighter!!
Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 121
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Originally posted by Chief F1 Fan:
<STRONG>Some professional advice-don't bother with the pix if you live nearby b/c then you are asking for a trial b/c the judge will not be able to determine a question of fact (which is left for juries) concerning whether you could see the stop sign or not. Second, if your license is clean, go in and talk to the municipality's attorney. Don't offer to go to driving school (in NYS=6 hours on 1 Saturday!); tell him/her you're looking for a non-moving violation. In NYS, the town or whatever, is allowed to charge you the fine but take a reduced plea. By granting a non-moving violation here, the town gets to keep the $$. Conversely, if a moving violation, then the STATE gets to keep the $$. So, you see the motivation for the town to let you have a non-moving violation. This may be the same in PA. Good luck and email if you need more help as I am an atty.</STRONG>
<STRONG>Some professional advice-don't bother with the pix if you live nearby b/c then you are asking for a trial b/c the judge will not be able to determine a question of fact (which is left for juries) concerning whether you could see the stop sign or not. Second, if your license is clean, go in and talk to the municipality's attorney. Don't offer to go to driving school (in NYS=6 hours on 1 Saturday!); tell him/her you're looking for a non-moving violation. In NYS, the town or whatever, is allowed to charge you the fine but take a reduced plea. By granting a non-moving violation here, the town gets to keep the $$. Conversely, if a moving violation, then the STATE gets to keep the $$. So, you see the motivation for the town to let you have a non-moving violation. This may be the same in PA. Good luck and email if you need more help as I am an atty.</STRONG>
If this happened in the city of Philadelphia, the case will be heard in Traffic Court by an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). BigPimp'sTypeS, you are not allowed to approach the ALJ to seek a reduction in the fine or the points. The best you can do is talk to the officer and hope he sympathizes or come up with a convincing defense. Only talk to the officer on the day of your hearing; otherwise you'll only give him a reminder that he needs to show up. And there will be no prosecutor--the officer who writes the ticket will present his own case and then you will have the opportunity to reply and give your side of the story. If the officer doesn't show up, your case is dismissed. No points, no fine. It's as if the infraction never occurred. The good news is Philly Traffic Court is notorious for being disorganized, and statistics show the judges find people not guilty more often than not.
If this happened outside of Philly, then the hearing will be in front of a District Justice (DJ). DJs are a bit tougher, because they face re-election every couple of years and it doesn't look good to the voters to let a lot of people off on traffic violations. Everything else will still be the same--no prosecutor, just the officer. Whatever you do, DO NOT ignore the ticket because the fine starts to double, your insurance can be cancelled and PennDOT will send you a letter saying your license has been suspended. Read the front and back of the ticket carefully, and make sure you reply by the dates indicated or else you lose your right to a hearing.
If the worst happens and you are found guilty, don't panic. PennDOT does not send automatic notification of a traffic violation of this kind to your insurance company. They have to actively request your driving record, which usually only happens if you switch companies. And if you behave yourself and do not receive any other moving violations in a year, three points will disappear from your license. If you do get another ticket (or have one that's less than a year old), only one point will disappear.
Sorry this is so long everyone. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
-Maria
One thing I forgot to add...PA does not have a "no contest" plea in traffic court. Look on the back of the ticket to see what your options are, but your best bet is to plead not guilty and take a hearing. Try to bargain with the officer to change the violation to a Section 3111--Failure to Obey Traffic Control Devices. It's the same fine, but no points on the license, thereby solving your problem.
[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: mfnlaw ]
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
From: Hialeah, FL
Originally posted by mfnlaw:
<STRONG>
Um, I'm an attorney too, and as far as I know judges CAN determine questions of fact if it's a non-jury trial. In this case, if the judge can't, how can the officer establish that he rolled through the stop sign otherwise? This is techinically a criminal matter, but no jail time is involved so the accused is not entitled to a jury trial.
If this happened in the city of Philadelphia, the case will be heard in Traffic Court by an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). BigPimp'sTypeS, you are not allowed to approach the ALJ to seek a reduction in the fine or the points. The best you can do is talk to the officer and hope he sympathizes or come up with a convincing defense. Only talk to the officer on the day of your hearing; otherwise you'll only give him a reminder that he needs to show up. And there will be no prosecutor--the officer who writes the ticket will present his own case and then you will have the opportunity to reply and give your side of the story. If the officer doesn't show up, your case is dismissed. No points, no fine. It's as if the infraction never occurred. The good news is Philly Traffic Court is notorious for being disorganized, and statistics show the judges find people not guilty more often than not.
If this happened outside of Philly, then the hearing will be in front of a District Justice (DJ). DJs are a bit tougher, because they face re-election every couple of years and it doesn't look good to the voters to let a lot of people off on traffic violations. Everything else will still be the same--no prosecutor, just the officer. Whatever you do, DO NOT ignore the ticket because the fine starts to double, your insurance can be cancelled and PennDOT will send you a letter saying your license has been suspended. Read the front and back of the ticket carefully, and make sure you reply by the dates indicated or else you lose your right to a hearing.
If the worst happens and you are found guilty, don't panic. PennDOT does not send automatic notification of a traffic violation of this kind to your insurance company. They have to actively request your driving record, which usually only happens if you switch companies. And if you behave yourself and do not receive any other moving violations in a year, three points will disappear from your license. If you do get another ticket (or have one that's less than a year old), only one point will disappear.
Sorry this is so long everyone. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
-Maria
One thing I forgot to add...PA does not have a "no contest" plea in traffic court. Look on the back of the ticket to see what your options are, but your best bet is to plead not guilty and take a hearing. Try to bargain with the officer to change the violation to a Section 3111--Failure to Obey Traffic Control Devices. It's the same fine, but no points on the license, thereby solving your problem.
[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: mfnlaw ]</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Um, I'm an attorney too, and as far as I know judges CAN determine questions of fact if it's a non-jury trial. In this case, if the judge can't, how can the officer establish that he rolled through the stop sign otherwise? This is techinically a criminal matter, but no jail time is involved so the accused is not entitled to a jury trial.
If this happened in the city of Philadelphia, the case will be heard in Traffic Court by an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). BigPimp'sTypeS, you are not allowed to approach the ALJ to seek a reduction in the fine or the points. The best you can do is talk to the officer and hope he sympathizes or come up with a convincing defense. Only talk to the officer on the day of your hearing; otherwise you'll only give him a reminder that he needs to show up. And there will be no prosecutor--the officer who writes the ticket will present his own case and then you will have the opportunity to reply and give your side of the story. If the officer doesn't show up, your case is dismissed. No points, no fine. It's as if the infraction never occurred. The good news is Philly Traffic Court is notorious for being disorganized, and statistics show the judges find people not guilty more often than not.
If this happened outside of Philly, then the hearing will be in front of a District Justice (DJ). DJs are a bit tougher, because they face re-election every couple of years and it doesn't look good to the voters to let a lot of people off on traffic violations. Everything else will still be the same--no prosecutor, just the officer. Whatever you do, DO NOT ignore the ticket because the fine starts to double, your insurance can be cancelled and PennDOT will send you a letter saying your license has been suspended. Read the front and back of the ticket carefully, and make sure you reply by the dates indicated or else you lose your right to a hearing.
If the worst happens and you are found guilty, don't panic. PennDOT does not send automatic notification of a traffic violation of this kind to your insurance company. They have to actively request your driving record, which usually only happens if you switch companies. And if you behave yourself and do not receive any other moving violations in a year, three points will disappear from your license. If you do get another ticket (or have one that's less than a year old), only one point will disappear.
Sorry this is so long everyone. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
-Maria
One thing I forgot to add...PA does not have a "no contest" plea in traffic court. Look on the back of the ticket to see what your options are, but your best bet is to plead not guilty and take a hearing. Try to bargain with the officer to change the violation to a Section 3111--Failure to Obey Traffic Control Devices. It's the same fine, but no points on the license, thereby solving your problem.
[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: mfnlaw ]</STRONG>
Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Dyno_CL-S:
<STRONG>i was wiating for you to show with your 'legal advise'</STRONG>
<STRONG>i was wiating for you to show with your 'legal advise'
</STRONG>
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all or anything like that. I just want to help when I can.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,052
Likes: 0
Originally posted by mfnlaw:
<STRONG>
If this happened in the city of Philadelphia, the case will be heard in Traffic Court by an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). BigPimp'sTypeS, you are not allowed to approach the ALJ to seek a reduction in the fine or the points. The best you can do is talk to the officer and hope he sympathizes or come up with a convincing defense. Only talk to the officer on the day of your hearing; otherwise you'll only give him a reminder that he needs to show up. And there will be no prosecutor--the officer who writes the ticket will present his own case and then you will have the opportunity to reply and give your side of the story. If the officer doesn't show up, your case is dismissed. No points, no fine. It's as if the infraction never occurred. The good news is Philly Traffic Court is notorious for being disorganized, and statistics show the judges find people not guilty more often than not.
-Maria
One thing I forgot to add...PA does not have a "no contest" plea in traffic court. Look on the back of the ticket to see what your options are, but your best bet is to plead not guilty and take a hearing. Try to bargain with the officer to change the violation to a Section 3111--Failure to Obey Traffic Control Devices. It's the same fine, but no points on the license, thereby solving your problem.
[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: mfnlaw ]</STRONG>
<STRONG>
If this happened in the city of Philadelphia, the case will be heard in Traffic Court by an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). BigPimp'sTypeS, you are not allowed to approach the ALJ to seek a reduction in the fine or the points. The best you can do is talk to the officer and hope he sympathizes or come up with a convincing defense. Only talk to the officer on the day of your hearing; otherwise you'll only give him a reminder that he needs to show up. And there will be no prosecutor--the officer who writes the ticket will present his own case and then you will have the opportunity to reply and give your side of the story. If the officer doesn't show up, your case is dismissed. No points, no fine. It's as if the infraction never occurred. The good news is Philly Traffic Court is notorious for being disorganized, and statistics show the judges find people not guilty more often than not.
-Maria
One thing I forgot to add...PA does not have a "no contest" plea in traffic court. Look on the back of the ticket to see what your options are, but your best bet is to plead not guilty and take a hearing. Try to bargain with the officer to change the violation to a Section 3111--Failure to Obey Traffic Control Devices. It's the same fine, but no points on the license, thereby solving your problem.
[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: mfnlaw ]</STRONG>
Well, the last time I was in court for a speeding ticket, the officer was not there, but it did not matter, they found me quilty anyway. However, I never said anything aboout the officer not being there.
You basically approach the bench and the judge asks you how you plead. I guess in this case I should say guilty and ask for a point dismissal based on inability to afford insurance because I am just a college student. I am not sure how well that will work. Does the officer have to be there? Any other ideas here?
Also, there is no "no contest" plea, but only guilty and non quilty. I will send in the payment today, plus the court fee.
Thanks for the help.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
From: Centreville, VA
Originally posted by kensteele:
<STRONG>
Yeah, that's right. Every time; without fail. And it doesn't just go for speeding tickets. Fight for everything in life, whether you are wrong or not. Nobody really knows if you are really wrong. Actually you are only as wrong as the you wanna be. You don't need any kind of pride or dignity. Man can't judge man. Who the hell wrote the law anyway? There's no honor in paying a [justifiable] traffic ticket. If there's a chance you might squeal and whine out of something you did wrong, no matter how minor, go for it, see if you can get away with it! Plea-bargaining is the American way. So what if you have to lie a time or two! There's nothing selfish about looking out for your own self.
Sorry I just had to....
[ 07-24-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Yeah, that's right. Every time; without fail. And it doesn't just go for speeding tickets. Fight for everything in life, whether you are wrong or not. Nobody really knows if you are really wrong. Actually you are only as wrong as the you wanna be. You don't need any kind of pride or dignity. Man can't judge man. Who the hell wrote the law anyway? There's no honor in paying a [justifiable] traffic ticket. If there's a chance you might squeal and whine out of something you did wrong, no matter how minor, go for it, see if you can get away with it! Plea-bargaining is the American way. So what if you have to lie a time or two! There's nothing selfish about looking out for your own self.
Sorry I just had to....
[ 07-24-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]</STRONG>
Kensteele, man sometimes you can be a real punk!
I don't know how it is in rural Kansas, but in most of the civilized parts of the world policing on minor infractions (such as traffic) has been totally influenced and taken over by the idea of making money not promoting safty.
Example: 2 cars are comming up on a 4 way intersection, each way marked by a stop sign. No cars are present in any direction, except for the 2 cars approaching the same stop sign. Car A pulls up to the stop sign, then procedes to pull up further to get a better view. Upon pulling up further Car B which was directly behind Car A happens to also pull forward all the way to the solid white line marking where each car should stop. Car B stops and waits for Car A. Car A pulls away from a stop sign. Car B, who was already at the marked line, also looks and then pulls away behind car A without pulling further past the stop sign and stopping a second time. 2 seconds later Car B is pulled over for running a stop sign!!!
This happend to me! I actually was able to talk the officer out of the ticket, but had I not, I would have had to miss work for at least half the day, to sit in a crowded court room while they call names off a roster of about 100 people. Should I have to do this? Hell no!
As much as I would like to believe it is, again I will reiterate that the law really is not BLACK AND WHITE. There are plenty of shades of gray in between... so next time please consider this before you pull all of your self rightous bullshit.
Also, do you ever consider how much even one point on a license affects insurance costs for young unmarried people? Actally, even NON POINT assessed violations? I have no negative points on my license and I got an HOV (high occupancy vehicle) violation once because I simply forgot I was on the road 1 hour earlier than normal. I have called serveral insurance carriers to get price quotes and I always get a quote with and without that HOV violation (which IS a non point assessed violation). Do you know that for a 24 year old single mail driving in virginia the difference per year because of this NON point assessed license is almost $1000 a year? Do you think I should have to pay a $3000 dollar penalty (cost of insurance over the 3 years that the HOV violation shows on my record) because I was in a HOV lane 30 minutes before I should have been? I don't!
Wake up kensteele, the rest of the world IS NOT IN KANSAS ANY MORE!
[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: beestea ]
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