silverstarr

I just got a call from a guy with American Honda in Torrance, CA. He was doing research on failed transmissions on the CL and asked me a lot of questions on the symptoms of the failure.

He wouldn't reveal that much. I asked him if this is a widespread problem, and he just said, "oh no, it's just surprising because our transmissions NEVER fail!" i was just thinking to myself, "yeah right, then why did mine fail and why are you doing this research if it is not something to be concerned about?!"

anyway, he went on to say that he was just doing research on a few of the cases to get more information on the symptoms. Who knows how many cases there are...

Has anyone else with a failed transmission got a call like this?

I then went on to express my concerns about the transmission. Since I had the replacement, I don't drive my car near redline anymore because I'm not sure if the tranny is strong enough for our engine. Anyway, he went on to say, "Oh, just drive normally like you did before! There are no problems with the transmissions!"

So I said, "Okay, I will!"

We'll see how the second tranny does....

Zapata

a bigHmmmmmm



Interesting......may a recall in the future????? Atleast Acura is starting to pay attention

AntsAreCrap

Thanks for the info. At least they are listening.

russianDude

Yeah, Acura wants to keep it down.... they dont want to spread a word about their tranny failings.
The Acura will go bankrupt if someone will determine that all Acura cars have tranny problems.

JSuppi

No one has called me in regards to this, I still don't think I abused my transmission enough to make it go out like it did Hmm, I hope I get a call, but probably don't think it will happen.

russianDude

I think that most of the trannys fail before 20K miles, if u pass beyond 20K miles, its fine probably...

kensteele

But it's a fact, unchangeable regardless of how anyone tries to change it; all Acura's do not have a transmission problem. There's proof.

That's exactly why Acura has to act the way they are doing: denials, research, "you're ok", etc. Because there are a few people who are hindering the effort by trying to force a recall that ain't gonna come, or people who are trying to get Acura to admit that other people are having problems, too, even though they got their own tranny fixed, or threatening class action suits, etc.

Why not just help the man with his research, do everything you can to get him accurate and timely information is a courteous manner, instead of pressure him to give up information or admit to something that you are not entitled to just because you purchased a car? He's not the individual who manufacturered, fixed, adjusted, sold, or otherwise repaired that part anyway.

I would do the same; I wouldn't let a few people ruin it for everyone.

BTW, Acura is not going bankrupt over a transmission in the CL.

This post is not directed towards anyone in particular, just to all who would like to further this effort in an aggressive, competitive, and hostile manner. So much for Acura turning towards us for partnership.

Zapata

ken,
I think that people are just anxious to protect their investment. The car isn't that cheap and even then money is money. YOu don't want something you spent money on to start failing and not working as it should. Car companies have been known to drag their feet when it comes to things like this until their hand is forced. Who knows, Acura may not even know the degree to which the problem exists. We're in the dark. The only information we have is that there are a number of people on this board who have had problems and their trannies replaced. Then there are those people who are experiencing problems and the status of their trannies future is yet to be determined. A couple of people on this board have already had it replaced more than once. Also, why are the trannies on back order? It could be a delay in the production because of raw materials etc., etc., but i sure hope it isn't because Acura didn't expect so many trannies to fail on them. Thus, I think the agressiveness is justified. Sometimes you need to be really loud before people pay attention to you.

Rod

No call here yet, but it's good to know that at least they're trying to research the problem. Downside to this is that it shows that they probably have no clue as to what the problem with our trannies is, so we're pretty much screwed in this regard. Hopefully they find the problem and have a fix or explanation soon.

silverstarr

Yeah, it's good they're doing research. I was as specific as possible, starting with the initial symptoms (jerky shifts), as well as how the problems progressively got worse and the mileage I first experienced the problem all the way to the point when I brought the car in for repair.

Yeah, maybe they don't have a clue what's wrong. When I expressed my concerns about the replaced tranny and suggested "maybe it's not strong enough to handle all the horsepower", he said, "no, it's fine. drive like you've always driven!"

JRock

Yeah, way to jump across the focking universe and make some insane conclusion like that, russian.

uu

dang... although my car has been fine *knock on wood again...*, all of these transmission failures are making me suspicious about my car... everytime my car jerk a bit, I get so nervous and let easy on the gas pedal and stare at the transmission ligh for irregularity... dang, i am getting paranoid!!!

oh, and I checked my transmission code the other day, it was the generation one, with code "1" not "2", doh!!!!

may be force be with me...

JSuppi

Didn't someone say something about a roller bearing or something in the torque converter? I don't know if I was reading it here, or on the TL board, but I believe they had mentioned that there was a new rev on the transmission that was distinguishable by the part #.

I know for one that they had immediately shipped my transmission off after it had failed to get it scrutinized.

EricL

You mean this thread:


http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=51088


IMO -- there is something bogus going on *or* the info got garbled by Acura or someone.

Rod

Of course they're not going to admit something's wrong with the tranny until they at least have some idea of what the problem is and can start on a solution. I sure hope this happens soon.

Rod

I wouldn't really buy into the gen 1 vs. gen 2 trannies, until something more official arises. I'm sure Wayne or Jens would let us know if they hear something about this.

If it's all true, then it sucks for me, b/c my second tranny is also a gen 1.

Nicky Pass

RECALL, RECALL, RECALL...........HOPEFULLY WITH THE OPTIO OF SWITCHING TO THE 6 SPEED.

ramiel408

You know that is interesting. I've got near 35k miles on my CL-S. I drive it pretty damn hard, and red line it every day I drive it. The tranny stalls and turns off sometimes when I come to a stop.

I'm hoping it dies before 50k so I can get new tranny which is good by then.

acura_service

this has been discussed before, if they didn't care, they wouldn't call, its for "information" - if they don't ask questions they will not know, as for "ALL" Acura cars, your "WAY" off base

bankrupt, i hardly think so

acura_service

its mechanical, and it will never be perfect, yes cars cost money, but things happen, people need to accept it. plus we don't know how these cars are driven on a day to day basis, i'm not blaming people maybe something in the trans may have to have tighter tolerences or thicker spects, but the human factor whether its during the production or in the hands of the owner should be considered

C.Z.

Good point here, I think my initial angst was due to not having my ride for a month. The loaner was just not cutting it for me either. I gotta admit, Furman Acura in Tampa handled everything with class and was in contact with me the entire way through. American Honda Mediation Group also contacted the regional parts dept. to help expedite the repair.

I'm thinking that Honda called the dealer to pull a tranny of one of the showroom cars and put in on mine in order to avoid buying the balance of my loan out due to the local lemon laws

I'm much calmer now that the car's back.. :P

95LegendCoupe

Frustrated with the way this discussion is going, sounds like some are making apologies for Acura's bad transmissions. Honda has a lot riding on the TL and CL, they may not go bankrupt but these cars are very important to Honda USA sales. The TL has been their most successful product since the Legend and Integra days.

I would be none too happy to be paying on a new $30k car while it sits at the dealer waiting for major repairs. I'd want to be told exactly what is wrong with the car and if it is a defective design problem. Yea, they're really going to do that...not. If it is found to be manufacturer defect Honda better well come up to the plate and make happy with everyone who bought this product, at the least fix it right. Reports of 2nd and 3rd transmissions is totally unacceptable in any car. Japanese Hondas were known for their reliability, but to cut costs has Honda become the next Saturn?
If I had a CL with trans problems I'd be out in front of the dealer with a big sign, '$30,000 Lemons for sale', let them drive it. I can't believe you buyers are putting up with this and accepting the 2nd and 3rd transmissions as normal warranty work. This is unheard of in a Honda. Am I missing something?

kensteele

I'm not trying to minimize anyone's problems because I just might get this same problem; none of us are immune at this point.

What I was trying to make clear is this conspiracy business.

I firmly believe the following:

1.The Company does not owe the consumer an explanation as to the design's inherit problems, future design specifications, changes, or identification of these problems (i.e. tranny numbers). Trying to get a handle on this is prying; who here can give a good reason why you must know?

2.Regardless of what you paid for the vehicle, it doesn't matter. Value is only relative. Just about everybody feels that an automobile is a major purchase and everyone would feel that it is important, but again it is relative. A "poorer" person might feel that the $500 television they saved 5 years for may demand special attention, but to you and I it might not. The only thing that is applicable is the law meaning the Company is only bound to deal with the customer under the current and applicable laws.

3.Acura is already aware of this problem, they already know about what causes it, they may not have a solution yet, or they might not have effectively communicated the solution. People are falling into the middle-man communication gap. Here's what I mean:

a.When just a few trannies started failing and orders for new trannies came in (warranty repair), someone at Acura was probably alerted within days.

b.After the first one or two or three trannies, they probably asked to see the a tranny. Either they sent in the broken tranny or specialist when out to the site. All probably within a week, it's not difficult to send somebody out.

c.What else does the CL team have to do but look over this tranny until they figured out what was wrong with it. They built it, they know it inside and out. The designer can tell what's wrong with in inside of two or three days, a week tops. That I can guarantee you. The root cause analysis doesn't take that long.

d.So what now? Within another week or two, if more trannies are being manufacturered, stop the line, make the corrective action. If trannies are already built, pull them back and make the fix. It probably took 2-3 weeks to get a solution (plan) in place; another 2 weeks to implement the fix.

e.To what extent is there a failure? Manufacturers don't need to count repair orders or call dealerships to estimate this. They can do the math in a day or two and say "1% failure rate" or whatever. Depending on this rate, a plan is put into place.

f.What to do with cars already on the lot? What about cars already sold? Again based on the numbers, a lot of options. After looking at the numbesr, a decision on how to handle can probably come in 1 or 2 days. That could mean fix on a case by case basis, or a service bulletin to check trannies as they come in, or even a letter to some owners asking them to stop in for a free checkup. It could be wait and see if this continues. At the same time, the factory could be audited, parts ordered, communications and TSB written, costs calculations done, etc.

4.It isn't easy to communicate this. You can't just call Acura and they say tell you the fact over the telephone, they don't know who you are, you could be a lawyer or the Government, or the competition. Plus you're not talking to anyone who is allowed to say anything [definitively]. If you can just understand who those people are who you talk to on the telephone, you probably wouldn't even bother to ask them anything and just discuss your business of how to resolve. It is very difficult for the design team to communicate with their own internal folks the correct message, which is further diluted to the dealers and to the customer. From Acura to customer is pretty non-existant. A good example, has anyone here ever talked to the person who designed your Motorola StarTAC if it has a problem? I can tell you that I have talked to them on several ocassions, but if you called Sprint PCS, you would be lucky if you even talked to me (and I don't talk to a lot of complaining customers) much less the phone's designer who could tell you definitively what's wrong. The point of this paragraph is that it takes time to properly communicate the issues and the fixes. Months.

Again, I know that people are frustrated and that we want prompt resolution. But you must understand that Acura is already aware of the problems, they read this board (they are not so foolish not to). To say that they don't know, and to get mad, and when you think you are calling them on the telephone, and you don't hear them acknowledge the problem, that's just not understanding the system on your part and how it works. Aggressive behavior is only appropriate when someone is not dealing with you straight up. But again, I guess I can understand if you are without [good] transportation or your vehicle fails while it is fairly new. So I just want to help some understand what might be going right/wrong here, why things aren't coming along as expected.

Why are the trannies on backorder? I don't know but here's what may be happening. Maybe Acura changed parts vendors for a few critical parts in the tranny midstream on the production line. My [early] Acura does not have tranny problems, later one's do. Manufacturer's change parts suppliers to save dollars or when the original supplier runs out of parts, or a design change means finding a new supplier. If you get Part A from a Malaysian company and they run out, you might find it in Sao Paulo at half price. You buy them; 10,000 of them and they are suppose to be within spec but all of sudden they start to fail. You stop using them. But where do you find more and better parts? Your supplier in Mayalsia been dried up; you would be surprise how few companies make certain parts. Ok, so I found a guy in Taiwan with them but guess what? 6-10 weeks. With the War and customs, that's 5-6 more weeks on top of that. Let's go with rebuilt trannies until then. That should hold the customer for several months. It's hell and the CL team must be nervous but I've been there before [on much smaller phone parts] and it ain't easy. I know customers don't give two sh*ts about your internal issues, and that why I say the customer doesn't deserve to know them.

I'm sure the production designer was probably doing the right thing. I'm pretty sure inspections were done and things "passed". It's Acura's company duty to save money and try to keep yours and my cost to a minimum, ALL companies do that. There's no need to picket dealerships (who are not a fault); there's no need to point the finger at Company employees who don't pass along sensitive information to you over the telephone, they just aren't allowed to; do you tell customers who call in to your business details of your Company's operation? Perhaps if they do $millions with you, you [might] tell them...

These problems have happened before in cars; all the time. But there was no Internet and no newsgroup forum to discuss and compare notes and inflame. I read the Sprint PCS newsgroup. Same thing over there. You would not believe the stuff they come up with over there but even I sometimes respond by putting out a note to the stores or to Customer Care to help clarify the issues because a mere 4 or 5 people don't understand. I know that those few people online translate to several thousand nationwide. While I don't participate and post (I'm not that stupid to invite idiots who like to challenge authority online ), I do read and understand and respond appropriately. I understand the frustrations, but ALL companies need apogolizing for their bad stuff; even mine. I told them about the long, long wait dialing into Customer Service, they just keep ignoring me, nothing more I can do. The fact is not everything can work as designed. It's the law of nature. Not an excuse but a fact.

Oh, and I do try to appease "loud" customers. I do it all the time because I know that those that complain the most legitimately are the one's that get the best and quickest satisfaction. But if you are complaining just to be complaining, that's no good to anyone. Hope this wasn't too long but I just wanted to break it down to it's not just a $30,000 car, it's the total sales. So $100 million worth of CLs is the same as a $100 cellphone selling 1,000,000 of them. It's just as important. That's what I meant about "it's just a car" not much difference to the company (yes big difference to the consumer). Acura is not forgetting about us...those signs of us being forgotten or Acura dragging their feet are not visible and apparent and at this point just a rumor. Give them some credit (and a chance) already.

P.S. No I don't work at Acura; I work at Sprint PCS.

russianDude

Hey, I love my car. Nothing against Acura, but from any big corporation perspective, they do not want to lose sales & profits.

That's why I dont expect any offical answers from Acura admiting that they indeed have weak trannys on CLS. They want people to go and buy their products. That's what I would do if I were them.
And its not just Acura, Nissan or any other big company would do the same.... its so called "marketing strategy"

Rod

Long ass post and I have to agree with most of what you said except the point of us not being owed an explanation concerning the tranny situation. We do deserve an explanation on this issue so that we know wether or not we bought a defective product and what possible solutions we have regarding this defective product, if it is so. I believe we may even be entitled to this explanation under some sort of consumer protection laws since for all we know, Acura may be selling lemons all over North America. That's probably exaggerating a bit, but we are entitled to know what's wrong with the product we bought, especially since a car is a big investment for most consumers, unlike a cellular phone. I'm not saying that this is a widespread problem and that Acura needs to recall all 2001 CLs, just that those of us who have had problems should be given an explanation and some sort of assurance that our problems are at least being worked on.

kensteele

No, I agree with you, we should be told what the our problems and our fixes are. As prescribed by law and in good faith. I meant we should not be privy to re-design efforts, the extent of the problem(s), possible causes (such as a strike or a disgruntled worker), factory capacities, technical service bulletins, etc. Your tranny failed because Part A broke prematurely, we are going to fix it by .... during this timeframe ...., what are your questions? If you ask "What is the serial number range of affected parts" so that I can post this on the Internet to warn unsuspecting consumers or you ask "What are your plans to fix this in the 2003 model year?", what answers should you expect to get? Inevitably the responses that Acura gives are embellished or twisted when they are recounted [online] and ends up with "clueless" or "BS" or whatever thrown it. That's another reason why don't care to respond back.

dhlesq

I thought that was a great post kensteele, and a great way to break down the situation.

I suspect that the timelines may be a bit longer. I think it will take longer than a few days to complete each of those steps in the problem analysis and decision-making process, but I think you hit the process right on the head.

One thing I would add is that we are not going to get the full story and explanation from the manufacturer until they have completed ALL of those steps. That is, they are not going to even acknowledge that there is a problem until they have a permanent policy regarding how to resolve it. That way when they go public they can describe the problem, explain the solution, and convince investors that it is fully under control and financially sensible.

The only thing that would make them go public before having a complete plan to resolve it would be if it made the car unsafe (see Ford/Firestone for an example), but even that is not for certain (see Pinto example). While this may be a highly annoying problem, it is not causing cars to flip over or explode, so they will likely not do anything until they have the complete picture.

Collective27

To Kensteele: I completley agree with all that you said and just want to give you the thumbs up on that post, though it was the longest one i ever read. Also, has anyone heard of any tranny problems with the 2002's?...i know it is a little early for that but just wondering, cause as some of you may or may not know i want to get a CLS when I turn 18, that being in April (I hope all of these problems are fixed by then) but this is making me wonder about that possible purchase....maby they will have the 6 speed buy then though

95LegendCoupe

I read the long post too. My dealing's with Acura is with the dealer, I agree with you. My local dealer has done very little to ensure my trust when I bought my Legend there and had service on my previous Legend. My salesman was fired right after, my car was damaged and abused in service, they said they fired him for other complaints too. I found out last week that the a.hole used car manager was fired since too. It was the most unprofessional, ignorant, underhanded group of people I have ever dealt with.
So, no, I don't trust Honda USa if they will allow that caliber of people on the front line dealing with customers. Something is wrong in a organization that allows that.
I've read other complaints about this dealer network in Texas on this board.
So, how I was treated by Acura sales, managers, and service fosters no trust in their capabilities, knowledge, or customer service skills. I could go into the gory details but it was enough to turn me off of Acuras and I've driven Legends and Hondas for 15 years. The closest dealer out of town is 75 miles away.

acura_service

dealers are Independantly owned and operated. unprofressional and ignorant people end up in jobs from all walks of life, if your neighbor is an idiot, is it the city or states fault?

Red Rider

Couldn't agree with you more. My dealer, Niello in Sacramento couldn't be better or more professional.

-=SoCalV6=-

Perhaps then it's time for Honda and Acura to have some type of 5 star service, like other car companies do, to regulate and check up on the dealerships that are actually worthy of the rating. If other companies can do it, so can Honda/Acura.

And as for the Transmission problems, you guys seem to be isolating this just to CL's, and possibly some of you have acknowledged that many TL's are having the same problems. But most of you are ignoring the simple fact that the Accord v6 auto trannies have been failing since 98, and continue to fail throughout 99, 00, and 01. So tell me that Acura/Honda aren't dragging their feet on this is rediculous. We have had no credibility in these tranny situations, but the minute the CL's and TL's start failing, are you trying to tell me that only now should they take it seriously, and even then that they're not dragging their feet on it, simply because you've been blind to the past 3 years of tranny failures on Accords? If they have had that long to fix the problem, then why haven't they fixed it KenSteele? If they are different problems between the Accord v6 and the CL/TL, which I highly doubt, then how come they haven't been able to get a transmission to work properly in the past 4 years, even if they have fixed mistakes, more pop up? What does that say about the product at hand? Fix one problem and another you failed to recognize pops up? Geez, how long do we have to wait until we actually get a tranny that won't go dead before 50k miles? 7 years? What does that say about quality control? Not very good in my opinion. The Accord v6 is due for a new generation come next year (2003), and this problem hasn't even been acknowledged publicly by Honda in the entire Sixth Generation Accord v6's life. I think you guys should worry about Acura's (Honda's) way of handling your tranny problems in your 2nd Gen CL's/TL's, because if the Accord is any example, you guys are in for zero explanations and zero public awareness. I think it's time u start paying attention to our trannies failing, because yours are obviously doing the same thing.

We have a consolidated thread that is posted right on the front page of our board at Accordv6.com, so we can get a fully tally of our members who have had trannies replaced. And if you don't give credit to our tranny problems as being legit, you can forget about giving ANY legitimate credit to your tranny problems.

Rod

You're totally right, but I think Honda may start getting even more attention now due to the fact that the problem with the trannies will increase much more now since they're being used in cars with more HP, like the CL-S/TL-S. It's gonna catch up with them, and hopefully real soon.

kensteele

All of those years of serious tranny problems, eh? I think Honda is taking the problem about as seriously as you did when you went out and purchased your Honda?

Come on. You expect me to believe that you thought Honda has serious tranny problems but then you turn around and buy one yourself? So much for a serious problem....

Oh and I assuming you have an [affected] Honda based on your sig....

The fact is that if Honda has serious unfixable tranny problems, they wouldn't be selling cars. I haven't read the Accordv6.com posts (perhaps I'll visit there) but a public explanation? Give me an example of a non-Government mandated public explanation from any other Company in the US where the explanation pertained to quality or the lack thereof? Perhaps Honda should allocate marketing money towards educating the public, heightening the public's awareness of the acute problems within the Company. Commercials, flyers, magazine articles, bumper stickers, lifetime warranty.