jimcol711

last night there were alot of interesting sites to be seen at the track...one thing that shocked me more than anything were the super shitty times being posted by cars that should do alot better...the temperature was perfect (55-60 degrees, no wind or humidity) and there were alot of cars putting up killer times..there was a SUPER built 1970 mustang mach 1 doing consitstant 8.60 at 157 mph!!!! thats fucking fast!!! but a few things did surprise me...there was a 2000 integra type R...with headers, intake AND a JACKSON RACING supercharger...the guy couldnt get it below 15.5!!!! WTF????? thats pathetic...there was also a brand new S2000 with a REALLY fancy body kit, header, intake, exhaust...and HE couldnt break 15.0....i know id be pissed if i had a car like that with mods and shit and i couldnt even get beat a stock CL-S...thats pretty sad....another thing i saw alot of at the track was stick shift cars getting repeatedly HORRIBLE launches....the only manual tranny cars doing any decent launches were the muscle cars....there were 2 vettes, both C5 vettes, both same basic mods...intake, headers...few minor things....one was a manual, one was an auto....the AUTOMATIC slaughtered the 6 speed time and time again....and the corvette guy with the stick shift was no idiot, he was a middle aged dude, been driving cars like that all his life, and he has had that car for over a year, comes to the track alot so dont try and tell me its because he was a bad driver....and that was just one example...i think that after seeing what i saw, ill stick with automatic transmissions forever...screw manuals, they dont do anything better unless you are a friggin pro driver. what good is a manual transmission if you cant launch it to save your life...that integra R i previously mentioned should be doing WAAAY better than 15.5 with all that shit...i mean seriously...same thing with the S2000. i mean we have seen a stock 6 speed CL-S do a 14.3 which is an obvious improvement over the 5 speed auto..but in the case of those corvettes, what the hell was going on there?? are the automatics in those vettes THAT good??? i learned alot last night at the track and one thing for sure i learned is NEVER underestimate a AUTOMATIC transmission...

BlueCLS6

True, it is hard to launch a manual to get consistent and good times... it takes actual driver skill to do that. Automatics take much less thinking by the driver, but in more powerful cars there is still some skill involved. However, in anything but a dead-stop start, the manual car will almost always beat the auto... it's simply putting more power to the ground, and with better gear ratios. I will always drive a manual for the shear pleasure of driving, regardless of how fast it is at the track. I can't believe a SC'd ITR was running 15.5! The hell is up with that!? My 1990 Accord runs that! lol

Doom878

It might have been the Type R driver couldn't drive. The S2k is hard to drive too. The stick Vette might not be getting traction. Who knows? Manual cars do hold mods better with less parasitic loss due to efficient trannies. Manuals are better too because they hold a lot more mods. But its true. Their is also the chance that the stick guy can miss a gear or launch bad while the auto just floors it and laughs.

jimcol711

seriously, it was appauling to see that ITR and S2000 run such horrible times....both guys were not rookies at the track from what i understand as well....also, another side note...watch the hell out for GTP's...my freinds STOCK GTP was runnign 14.5 ALL NIGHT!!! his trap speed was always lower than me but that extra torque gets us every time.

bigman

Chevy puts more torque into the auto vette, that is why it gets similar numbers as the manual.

Roell

Jim,

a couple things..the ITR driver was his first time at the track. He was pulling out 2.7+ 60 times and trapping 96 +. He was also having engine management problems.
The guy who drove the S2000, that wasn't even his car so he was didn't know how to launch it correctly.

The two vettes were in entirely different classes. the auto was had run a 12.10 and the manual had run a 13.08. The mods on those two cars were very substantially different. It really had nothing to do with the stick vs auto arguement.

Other than that, there were a handful of mustangs and T/A's that weren't doing to hot off the line. But that is why you go back again and again, to get better.

Brian

dbox

good post! i am with you bro, autos are the shit! very much so they shit with a shift kit, then whats a stick got?

Pull_T

Untrue. Care to show some dyno numbers to back that statement up? I could ask my buddies at corvettforum, ls1 or z06vette for some dyno graphs, but I'm not much in the mood.


Anyways....

When assesing whether a track is "bad" in a particular evening, it's most helpful to know whether the cars' 60s are off (bad prep) or the traps are off )bad weather conditions). You can usually chat with the "regulars" to see whether they are running a bit off or not and get a clue as to why.

jimcol711

yo brian, i guess i forgot about the fact that the ITR guy was a rookie at the track (much like me ) but i could have sworn those 2 vettes were VERY similar...the guy with the automatic was sayin he didnt have all that much done, and the guy with the stick (who also had the GTP that wasnt there) said he just had basic mods too from what i remember so im pretty sure they were about equally "classed" or modded i guess. but i could be wrong, maybe my memory is bad!

jimcol711

did you talk to the ITR guy after his runs or something?? he wasnt talkin about the specifics of his times when i was aroud there, what was the deal with his engine management?? how was that causing a problem? i dont recall that. in any case, i just think that if a person is a stick driver, whether its their first time on the track or not their car or whatever, these guys have been driving stick enough to know how to shift..i mean, sure every car is different, but its the same basic principle whether your in souped up old muscle car with a manual or a grocery getter with a manual...i was really dissapointed with both of those cars, there are ITR guys that claim to run in the 13s with those kind of mods, and a S2000 like that should easily hit low 14s if not hight 13s..i mean the few 6 speed CL-S dudes on here that have been to the track who had JUST got their car a few 1000 miles prior had no problem running awesome times <14.3> so i dunno, either some people just cant drive stick or something was not right...who knows...i guess it will be time to go back down there and find out!!!

Doom878

From a lot of people I know that have seen S2000's run they are hard to break into the low 14s high 13's. I have heard it is really hard to drive.

As far as the stick vs auto go. I'll give u an example. If an 03 CL auto races an 03 6speed who's going to win. I would say 90% of the time the manual.

Did you notice also the way the cement felt when you went on the track. Thats not your everyday asphalt. Street and track are 2 different animals. Some people don't know how to launch on the track but kill on the street vice versa.