I was shocked when I saw the dyno sheets, and my car was doing only 196hp to the wheels with an Intake!!! I dont think it is my car. Is it possible the dyno is off? I will post the images below, see if you can make sense out of these, since I can't. The cat did make a noticeable difference. I still have not reset my ecu after both mods. If I get a chance to do this today, I will.






Or you can view all images at http://photos.yahoo.com/spiro_h

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

[This message has been edited by spiroh (edited 05-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by spiroh (edited 05-15-2001).]

 

Okay now u guys are really scaring me.. I haven't even bought my CL yet and this powerloss is enormous. If it was stock, what would I be losing? 80 HP at the wheels? Is this normal????

 

HellaWhat,


People have been putting 200hp to the wheels stock. So either something is wrong with my car..which I doubt since I ran a 14.8, or the dyno.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

 

I'm shocked to see the dramatic torque loss at 5.5k, but otherwise it looks pretty normal.

 

Am i misreading the plots or did you lose ~20+ lbs. of torque? and gain ~20+ HP? It looks like the Random Tech cat is flowing a greater volume of air however, without sufficient backpressure youre loosing a lot of torque w/it.... Not to say the HP increase isn't impressive but at the cost of an equal amount of torque, it seems as though it's shifting the curve to the upper end, which will give you better performance in the upper end but far worse launches. IMHO, this car needs more torque improvement then HP to better 1/4 and street accelerations.... just my .02. If im misreading the graph please do correct me.


Chris


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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway 3/10/01 Best GTECH Sprint 5.554/28/01 with Poobah watching Xephyr Performance Intakes

 

I have no clue. I don't understand these charts at all.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

 

Spiro,

There a few things that make these graphs more difficult to discern then usual. The lack of tick marks for peak output, unlabeled runs, I assume the 177HP run is stock and 199 is w/Cat. There a few drop off in the graph where it goes ghost LOL... Is this a reputable shop that did them? It seems as though they werent too great at setting up and punching down the numbers ...

But It does appear that a lack of adequate back pressure is robbing you of some serious torque down low , but conversely rewarding you with more HP up high. Like I said earlier I am looking fo ways to increase torque down low w/o robbing upper band HP. I think that is what will make our cars feel and perform much better overall for everyday and track driving. Just My opinion....

In any event, hats off to you for a great job taking the plunge and getting the Random Cat and dynoing it for us all to see. I think it will be very useful in the long term.

soopa:

Archive to the garage


Chris



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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway 3/10/01 Best GTECH Sprint 5.554/28/01 with Poobah watching Xephyr Performance Intakes

 

Here are the results in text.

Dynorun 1 - HP 177.1 TORQUE 195
Dynorun 2 - HP 196.1 TORQUE 173.8

Above times were with only the CAI

Dynorun 3 - HP 199.6 TORQUE 214
Dynorun 4 - HP 201.5 TORQUE 204.7

Dynorun 3 and 4 were done with both the CAI, and the Random Tech Cat.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

 

Torque dipped from 214 to 204.7 on separate runs while HP went up a bit? Strange, that other guy that posted dyno results after the cat should post the graphs for comparison, he had only listed peak numbers. His torque dropped as well, but I don't think by as much.

 

You'll have to forgive the dumb or even obvious observation, I'm a newbie at this. Are you telling me that with the mods, your car dynoed at less HP and torque than a stock Type S?

 

Yep. Personally I think something is messed up on the dyno.

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

 

Hmmm, I hate to say this but sometimes dyno's vary. I was told by a DynoJet rep that the person doing the dyno has a lot to do with the results. Me, not knowing that much about dynos was not surprised to hear that. Maybe you should try a different shop and see what you get........

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01' Acura CL Type-S
Piaa 19169 Bulbs
Valentine1 Pig Detector
CompTech Exhaust
Xephyr Cold Air Intake
Founding Member of the NO SCRATCHED RIMS CLUB

01'Acura Integra GSR

 

What gear did you guys dyno the car?

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

 

THROW OUT THE 177HP!!! It was a bad pull, I'd say take the high pull of 199.6HP as a baseline and the 201.5HP as your results pull w/Cat...for a net HP gain of 1.9HP for ~$300 installed....

As for torque, there Dyno is screwed up.... Your car with CAI was generating more torque than the 3.5L and all the Comptech/CAI cars out there...not possible.

Advise...find a Dynojet and start fresh..baseline...CAI...Cat...get real #'s so you know whats up. A bad Dyno can lead you down the wrong road. Looking at the curves, I'd say your getting lots of transients misread as power peaks.

 

What's the average (before this post) (front)wheel horsepower of a stock CL-S?

Considering normal loss is around 15% from crank to rear wheels, maybe 20% at the MOST EVER, we should be around 225hp stock, at the wheels.

Anything less than that is outrageous to say the least.

If our horsepower can be brought up to 240ish with intake and exhaust mods (including headers, CAI, axle-back), then we should worry about getting the torque up higher since 240 fwhp is pretty sweet and the torque is what kicks you back into the seat and launches you.

-J

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2001 CL-S Aegean Blue/black interior spoiler, wheel locks, no-navi
Stock for now.

 

Both 199hp and 201 hp were done with the cat. My baseline hp would be 196 for a gain of 5-6hp to the wheels.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

 

Agreed, but using 2 different Dynojet 224's I also pulled about 199/200 ft./lbs of torque with just a CAI. I think there is a bit of difference on readings between genuine Dynojet Model 224 and Model 248. The curves do not look normalized either, Im curious if they appleied standard SAE correction?


Chris


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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway 3/10/01 Best GTECH Sprint 5.554/28/01 with Poobah watching Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 05-15-2001).]

 

I agree with syncivic .. throew out the first dyno.. that is way wrong.. look at those torque numbers.. on the bright side it looks like you gained 5.4 hp to the wheels with the cat (using run 2 as the baseline and comparing to run 4).. the torque numbers I agree are way off for runs 3 and 4 (not even caring about run 1.. way wrong). why does the graph start at 4600 rpm for dyno runs 3 and 4.. they are taking the max torque at 4600 rpm when it is way high.. I think more realistic torque numbers for dyno runs 3 and 4 would be 190 and 185 respectively taken at 4800 rpm (though those torque figures are really high as well).. thanks for getting the dyno done.. it seems what we can take from this is that we can get approx 5-6 hp at the wheels with the addition of the cat.. though I am concerned as the last two dynos of stock CL-S has netted only 190 hp at the wheels (I subtracted the gains by your CAI, 196-6)

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2001 Silver CL-S

 

When I had my car dyno'd for just peak hp, they dyno'd the car in D3 (Accord V6 is a 4spd auto) so that the car would not upshift to 4th gear. Bad thing is, the graph doesn't start until 4,200 rpms and if they start logging data to soon, you see a shift spike while the transmission is switching gears. That is my guess why that one dyno run showed a high torque reading.

In order to get a broader curve, they put the car in 2nd gear which prevents the transmission from downshifting to first or upshifting to third. This way they can start the dyno around 2,000 or 3,000 rpms.

I've watched my car on the dyno about a 10 times or so, and when dyno'ing in 3rd gear they slowly bring the speed up to about 50mph and let if fall back to 30-40mph... he then punches the gas so the car downshifts to 2nd gear, and when the transmission upshifts to 3rd after hitting redline in 2nd gear, he starts logging the data.

Sticks are definitely much easier to dyno than an automatic.



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2000 Acccord LX V6 Sedan
- Eibach Pro-Kit Springs& Koni Yellow Shocks
- AEM Short Ram Intake
- AEM Tru-Power Pulleys
- Jet Hot Coated CompTech Headers
- Denso Iridium IK20 Plugs
- Forged Racing Hart 17x7.5" CP-035's with 225/45 RE730's
- 15.44 @ 87.87mph (Track)