juice

Does it hurt the transmission to use downshifting as a method to slow the car down when in sport shift?

fastdriver

?????Isn't that what it's for?

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fastdriver
2001 San Marino Red w/parchment interior. [*]Mudguards[*]Bra[*]No nav.[*]No spoiler.[*]Lojack[*]Four coats of Zaino Z2/Z6 and three of Z5/Z6 so far! That red is gleaming![*] Number 34331.[*]Built 3/01.[*]Bought 3/28/01
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Iridium130

Your transmission does that anyways so I dont see why it could be bad for your engine...

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_-Phil-_!
2K1 #10,029 Satin Silver CL-S since 6/13/00 named Laetitia with Navi! Mods : XEPHYR PERFORMANCE CAI~3M Reflective Tint(37%) tint~Hiper Hibrid Plasma "Xenon" road lamps & high-beams~Uniden LRD 6599SWS Radar Detector~Shine by Meguiar's Gold Wax~Member of the Scratched Rims Club~Upgraded cupholder ~

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Handruin

Maybe it's just me, but when I downshift from 3rd to 2nd I feel like I'm gunna rip my engine mounts off. Seems like this is the roughest gear to down shift. It's not that bad, but I feel like I'm putting strain on the car. I don't do it at very high speeds, I am aware of that, I drove manual for 7 years... what do others feel about this gear downshift, am i babing my car too much maybe?

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2001 CL-S red, spoiler, mud guards, moon visor

Chief F1 Fan

brakes are cheaper than trannies remember! I always heel/toe, lot easier on car.

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'01 Satin Silver CL-S, tint, Momo Cobra Carbon, Mobil1, V1, 19169's

NY Lic.- F1 FAN
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Wyle E. Coyote

It's similar to using a manual, you just need to know when to downshift. I do it all the time. For instance, when I'm in D5 doing 50 mph behind a car I need to overtake, I'll slap it over to SS and downshift to 3rd then hit the accellerator. I also do it while braking if I need to slow down faster. No problems so far.


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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
No Navi/No Spoiler
Competch springs
35% tint
PIAA 19169 bulbs
K&N 33-2178 air filter

The Aviation Zone

TL_Type_S

What I like about the SS is, as mentioned, I CAN drop into 3rd, or 2nd (as the case merits) and know that i have that tork on command --> whereas in D5, I'll push the pedal in .. still in 4 or 5, and I'll have to hunt for that lower gear --> by that time, i've already come very close to the back end of the car I want to pass.

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2002 Acura TL-S
White Diamond Pearl/Parchment
Bone Stock
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URIRx98

well, i really hope that thius doesnt ruinin the tranny casue i do it all the time. Especially when i am drivin fast in auto adn need to stop short, i always throught the car in SS mode and shift down. BUt yest the 3rd to 2nd does fell like i will be rippin the car out of its engine blocks and i really hope thats its not bad for the car, but u know what its not my car, its leased. it just sucks for the people in the passengers seat and rear seats casuse they always get slammed foward when i down shift. I dont think its bad for the car, so i will continue to do it.
wg

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The SILVER STREAKER CL-S no navi, spoiler, tint all around, moonroof visor,
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Beach-CL

I would NOT recommend you heel/toe with an automatic transmission if what you want to do is help stop the car.
This can be done with a manual tranny when you are in between gears (with the clucth pressed) to keep the RPMs up and not hurt the transmission. This is a common racing technique.
With an automatic, since there is no cluthch, there's not an "in between gears" so the car is pretty much in direct drive at that point. If you heel/toe the car will just take off and you'll will NOT be able to stop in time for the turn, most likely crashing into something.
This is just one of the disadvantages of auto. trannys, especially such restrictive ones as the CL's.
Can't wait for the 6 speed... I'd trade-in my car in a flash.



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2001 Silver CL-S

mdaniel

Heel and toe in an auto would probably heat up the tranny fluid and kill the torque converter. Bad idea. Phil said the tranny downshifts as you slow anyway so its not a problem if you do it. I disagree. When slowing down, the autodownshift doesn't happen until the revs get pretty low (like 4->3 at 22 mph) so there's little stress on the drivetrain. When we talk about downshifting to slow the car, its more like 4->3 at 50 or 60 mph. The revs spike pretty hard at that level and can't be good. Factory autos were never meant to be driven hard. That's why I want my stick back.

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2001 Silver 3.2CL Type S with Spoiler and Navi
Charter member of the Scratched Rim Club

Zapata

OH MY GOD NO!!!!!!! Do not downshift while you are going beyond what the gearing is meant for!!!!!! Look in the manual. It has recommendations for when upshift and downshifts are ok. You are correct when you say you feel the engine tearing itself apart. That jerk backwards you feel is the transmission shifting when you are NOT SUPPOSED TO SHIFT!!!! You will kill your tranny. This is not a manual so PLEASE for the sake of the do not drive like it is one. I made the mistake of doing that while i was on my first test drive......the salesman gave me a look like i was about to have sex with his daughter or something. I spoke with a friend who drag races and he nearly smacked me....point being, DON'T DO IT

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'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!

Scooter

think of it this way, if we weren't supposed to downshift, then the shift gate would only b in the upshifting direction

the way i drive my SS is from 2-3 at around 30, from 3-4 around 40, and from 4-5 around 50...for downshifting, i use the same scale. and if i really smoke a guy away, i alter my scale to shift at 5500 RPM's every time!!

Chris


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Copyright 2001 ScooterKin Enterprises:

'01 CL Type-S: Red on Black

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NOVAwhiteTypeS

30% of the time I use 1st-> 2nd->d3 and I love the fact that I can take control of 1st but im wondering if its badd to hold it at 5000+ in first for so long. It does give a very good launch but the gas pedal also feels like im ripping someting. And downshifting to brake.... I use to do that until my friend almost flew foward and hit my windshield cuase he wasn't weaing a seat belt. only downshifting from 3rd to 2nd so wasn't that bad but still.

the only time I do use it is when I see a cop w/ radar, even tho I know its too late I just pull the lever down to 2nd (not SS) and slow the car down.

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CL-S
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frederix

The reason why the car bucks when you downshift is that it doesn't blip the throttle or match the revs to make the gear change smooth. As a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't use the transmission or engine breaking to slow down your car. It doesn't matter if you have an automatic or a manual transmission. Modern cars with disc brakes don't need engine breaking to slow them down. It is actually conterproductive. It's a lot cheaper to replace your brakes than it is to replace your engine and transmission.

Wyle E. Coyote

I disagree. True, it is cheaper to replace your brakes vs replacing your tranny, but you will be replacing your brakes a lot more often without downshifting. Also, braking and downshifting (at respectable rpms) it more efficient.

I was always taught never to "ride" the clutch. If the clutch is partially or fully depressed, it's still considered as "riding."


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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
No Navi/No Spoiler
Competch springs
35% tint
PIAA 19169 bulbs
K&N 33-2178 air filter

The Aviation Zone

Dyno_CL-S

i agree, never 'ride' the clutch! but about downshifting i would have to say is ok as long as you do it @ safe rpm's.....if anyone has ever driven a manual and mistaken placing the gear in 1st instead of 3rd you know that 1st gear can not handle all that power! the rev limiter kicks in and then the car could kicks ur ass by blowing the head gasket, water pump, etc!!! like i said, down shifting @ low rpm's is safe. the car/tranny should be ok. changing brakes is cheaper then changing a clutch

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Current ride: 91 Dodge Colt.... no p/w, no p/l, no AC

Preiovus ride: 2001 CL-S, Black, dropped 2 inches, stock

BSK181

i have over a million miles of driving experience on cars. it is much cheaper and smarter to slow down with your brakes than downshifting, especially with an auto or any kind. save the downshifting for when you really need it, to beat other cars or to pass. period. my .02

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01 BLK/BLK CL-S, FACTORY SPOILER, K/N DROP IN
98 INFINITI I30T
99 MAXIMA SE

Samer007

isn't that why we have the rev limiter. so we dont blow the engin. I sometimes drive down the freeway on the second gear, and my rpms are like at the 5k mark for more that a mile. I get a kick out of that. I feel like im driving a rocket. lol

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Black 2001 Acura CL-S W/Nav 20%,35% Tint, Polarg M6 lamps

Live To Drive!

Zapata

I can't believe some of the things that people are saying on this board. Just because there is a downshift gate, we should downshift whenever?!@?!?@ WTF, do you people know how to take care of a car? Especially, one that costs so much money. Unbelievable.....

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'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!

Wyle E. Coyote

Let me ask you this....

Question: If I'm doing 50 mph behind a car I want to pass, what's the difference between letting D5 downshift to D3 or me switching to SS and downshifting from 5th to 3rd manually?

Answer: Not a damn thing!



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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
No Navi/No Spoiler
Competch springs
35% tint
PIAA 19169 bulbs
K&N 33-2178 air filter

The Aviation Zone

Zapata

There is a difference. The ECU is there to do it so the tranny doesn't explode. I'll trust the engineers.

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'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!

Rod

Doesn't the ECU also control SS downshifts? Isn't this why it won't let you downshift sometimes or takes longer to downshift than if you had an actual manual?

Zapata

The ECU controls alot of things but my point is just because you can downshift doesn't mean you should.....especially when the ECU will adjust whatever needs to be adjusted and then shift for you to accelerate. Upshifting is onething downshifting is another....

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'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!

Beach-CL

Yeah... some of the postings here are totally misinformed or outright dangerous.

For street driving, using the brakes only to stop the car is fine.
If you ever do (or have done) any type of road racing, you learn really quick the advantages of using the gearbox (and the compression of the engine) to help you stop. Only in the higher levels of road racing do they not use the downshifting to aid in stopping. That's because their brakes are SO good. Many of the top drivers in the world state that the biggest differences between classes are 1) horsepower and 2) stopping ability.
Our cars don't have the advantage of such good brakes so it's OK to downshift to help stop the car.
Now you have to be smart about it because:
1) the ECU will not let you downshift in some situations (ususlly when you need it the most)
2) even though there is a rev. limiter, when downshifting you can always over-rev. because the momentum of the car and the low gear. In this situation, cutting gas won't make the engine stop spinning.

So, you should be able to downshift no problem, just learn the limitations of the car as well as yours.

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2001 Silver CL-S

frederix

I'm not an expert on racing but I was under the impression that before race cars had powerful disc brakes the drivers would downshift before a turn to help slow down the car. Now, drivers use the heal toe technique to brake and downshift at the same time so the downshift helps them accelerate out of the turn, not brake before it. I realize that our brakes suck and that our cars are not race cars or even sports cars but I still won't downshift to slow down my car.

AirC

Im not exactly an expert either but after complete boredome of an automatic for the past year, when i downshift i learned to in a sense doubleclutch by just tapping the gas right after the downshift, and thus the rpm shoots up to where it needs to be to make a smooth downshift. after like months of practice i can somewhat do it smoothly most of the time. But would this solve the problems as far as damages to the transmission? I mean it works... still slows down the car and id ont feel any jerks..?

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01' CL 3.2 Premium.
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Beach-CL

I personally downshift every time I am in SS and as hard as I need to. I don't think that will damage the tranny. The ECU will not let me what it does not want to, which I am sure is less than I'd like to be able to do.
This is my first non-manual car and I've never blown up a tranny before.

Regarding heel/toe, if you have mastered it with an automatic, then go for it. I'll try it sometime.

"I'm not an expert on racing but I was under the impression that before race cars had powerful disc brakes the drivers would downshift before a turn to help slow down the car. Now, drivers use the heal toe technique to brake and downshift at the same time so the downshift helps them accelerate out of the turn, not brake before it. I realize that our brakes suck and that our cars are not race cars or even sports cars but I still won't downshift to slow down my car."
Drivers use downshifting to help stop the car in almost every level of competition. In fact, you hear a lot about drivers spinning out because they missed a gear. This gear is usually missed downshifting before a turn. Then the brakes only can't stop the car in time.

Heel/toe is not really for better accelerating out of a turn. High RPMs are a by-product of downshifting and with few exceptions, by the time you are coming out of a turn you,ll be at high RPMs for the gear you are at.

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2001 Silver CL-S

SilverKnight

Ummm ... why are we worried about this? the SS wouldnt let you downshift if you are not in the right range!!! Try going 110mph and down shift to 3rd see if you could get it done. I tried but couldnt do. The gear number showed flashing 3 and nothing happened. I did it when racing a J30. The manual can back me up on this.
Btw, if you are gonna do it, keep the acceleration pedal to the floor .. in case it really down shift ... didnt work for me but who knows ... and remember ... do it at your own risk.


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'01 Silver CL-S
Painted Mud Guard
Silver Aluminum Pedals
Kenwood Amp with 10in. Pioneer sub.
(modified) CAI.

My Car

ChodTheWacko

I thought there were previous posts
saying that if you downshift, then the car brakes very hard in an attempt to get in the range of the gear you are shifting in? I'd
prefer it to act the way you've stated in this post. I don't have a CL-S yet to try it on, hopefully within a couple of weeks...




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'01 Aegean Blue CL S-Type w/ Nav(coming soon!)
CL FAQ (work in progress): www.wizardsworks.org/chod/acura

SilverKnight

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChodTheWacko:
I thought there were previous posts
saying that if you downshift, then the car brakes very hard in an attempt to get in the range of the gear you are shifting in? I'd
prefer it to act the way you've stated in this post. I don't have a CL-S yet to try it on, hopefully within a couple of weeks...

[QUOTE]

OK I found it. it's in the manual p.180

"If you try to manually downshift at a speed that would cause the engine to exceed the redline in a lower gear, the transmission will not downshift.
The gear indicator will flash the number of the lower gear several times, then return to the higher gear."
There are tables for upshift and downshift as well. Use the upshift table if you decide to drive your CLS like an Escort.

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'01 Silver CL-S
Painted Mud Guard
Silver Aluminum Pedals
Kenwood Amp with 10in. Pioneer sub.
(modified) CAI.

My Car

Tom2

Unbelievable.

I can't believe how many people here think that you can "heel and toe" an automatic tranny car.

Since we've talked about heel and toe last week, I would hope more of you would actually know what it is......

Since your automatic tranny CL only has two pedals, and you yourself have 2 feet, then there is no heel and toe shifting on an automatic.

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99 M3
dead CL-S

Tom2: The Voice Of Reason

kensteele

I've been downshifting at all speeds under all conditions for over a year now....no damage.

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* 2001 Acura CL Type S * Blk/Blk * Navigator * Spoiler * Moonroof Visor * V1 *
* Since 3/31/2000 *
* Road Warrior *

ChodTheWacko

Thanks!
I'm get hesitant to ask questions since I don't know what's in the manual or not yet. :P




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'01 Aegean Blue CL S-Type w/ Nav(coming soon!)
CL FAQ (work in progress): www.wizardsworks.org/chod/acura

mdaniel

It doesn't brake. Its the drag from the engine. Think of it like a manual. If you push the clutch, the engine and transmission are free to spin at different speeds. Say the engine it turning at 2000 rpm and the transmission is turning at 6000 rpm. If you let out the clutch, these two parts spinning at different speeds will be forced to sync up. Since the engine it turning so much slower, it is like applyiing the brakes to the drive wheels. A FWD car will nose dive when you do this. Of course, the CL is an auto, but the idea is the same.




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2001 Silver 3.2CL Type S
Spoiler, Navi, Cupholder 2.0, 35% tint all around
Charter member of the Scratched Rim Club

Beach-CL

That's what I tried to explain a couple of posts ago but there's really no reason for people to know about it if they have not had some racing experience... or watch a lot of races on TV.
I still don't think heel/toe makes sense with an automatic tranny.



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2001 Silver CL-S

EricL

I'm going to diverge here and I expect some "wrath" coming my way. BTW -- I know how to heel-and-toe and have it done it for about 20 years in manuals. (It is possible to heel-and-toe or use the expression in the case of an automatic. It is useful for getting the SS to engage at speed, and I do it with my right foot, NOT MY LEFT)

There is a point that was made to me by a very experienced defensive driving and racing instructor years ago. I had noticed a number of people driving with both left and right feet in automatics. I had managed to bring this subject up numerous times, and he had a sh*t fit when I mentioned people who would drive with their left foot on the brake and right on the gas pedal (in automatics or manuals).

He mentioned that "most" drivers when confronted with an emergency, will "instinctively" slam their right foot down in an emergency. So, what does this have to do with heel-and-toe etc -- It is a really bad idea to get used to applying the brake with YOUR left foot on a regular basis. Most people -- in an emergency panic braking situation -- will shove their right foot down as hard as possible (on the accelerator -- not the brake as intended). I've actually seen a couple of older people do this who were driving with their left foot riding the brake.

So, the point I'M tiring to make is:

1. Heel -and-toe is great for double clutching/blipping/etc with gas/brake/clutch.

2. Using the left foot to pop the brake is a habit that should be used with rarity


If someone wants to use the expression "heel-and-toe" to indicate that they are doing the same operation that one would do in a manual (but for another reason), who cares?



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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

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