quikcls

how could you not afford gears if you've managed to get your stang to run low 13's? i hope you spent it all on you r motor?

the swede

lol, how about price tag, luxury, and practicality in general? And I'm willing to bet longevity could be added to that list, but only time will tell... If you're talking strictly about racing, okay - the CL-S is basically a luxury car with an identity crisis (and rightfully so). The '03 Cobra will own the CL-S on the track, but let's take a cross country trip.. Basically, I figure a car like the CL-S has the best of both worlds - comfort, practicality, and still a good deal of speed. A low-14 1/4 mile run may be something to scoff at when you're running 10's, but consider what most other street cars run and I'd say the CL-S is a very impressive car.

F23A4

Why anyone would pay 35 large for any non-corvette, non-Viper, non-Caddy American car is beyond me.

moomaster_99

You notice he liked to throw out the NSX in the $80k range, but failed to include the Viper. Which is everything the Cobra is, but more power, better handling...and looks 100x better. I give much props to the 03 Cobra...but paying almost 15k over a GT for a blower and IRS which is a detriment in drag racing makes you wonder as well. And a Supra will still hand the Cobra its ass.

KC CL 1785

You forget that the s2000 hgas a high level of refinement and the4 inerior in my opinioon is much nicer. Yes I do agree tyhat ford came out with a great power for your money car, but I also think that although there are other cars that the mustange would rape, thee are also other cars that people buy OVER the mustang for reasons other than speed.

Wait till I get the comptech blower put on, then I'll give you guys a run for your money

Titand19

The Cobra is afast, but it still is a FORD, and puts down a pretty crappy amount of HP/Liter esp for a FI car. To sum it all up, American engineering sucks.

numbaonestunna

You jackass. Where do you think the automobile was invented? Which country has the most patents per year? Where does most technology originate from? Don't knock American Engineering jackass... what's your profession anyways?

And back on cars... is there a better car with forced induction that has more horsepower or power for the money? In other words, is there another car that for 35k can take the cobra? Straight line, or even on the track?

Titand19

Hey Numbaonestunna, I think you are getting a little out of hand.
1. I was simply saying that in terms of Hp/liter, American technology is not up to par.
2. America does have the most patents per year, but patents do not always apply to technological inventions as you might think.
3. I agree that for 35K there are no STOCK cars taht can take the Cobra, I'm assuming that's what you meant.
4. My job is def not being a little fucking asshole and going off on someone for stating his/her opinion.
Who's the Jackass now?

330RWHP

Wow this thread blew up since I last saw it.
Here goes *takes a deep breath*

The Cobras were only over rated in 99. The was a free recall to get that taken care of. The LS1 and 01 Cobra is a VERY good race assuming both driver's have equal skills. I would give the slight upper hand to the SS/WS6 because it can launch alot harder b/c it's not limited by the IRS like the Cobra. Give the SS to an average/decent driver and the Cobra to a great driver and my money would be on the Cobra. It is by no means, a "walking".

I have car payments, insurance, a speeding ticket, a speed contest ticket, and gas to pay for. My hours at work have been cut from 35hrs/week to 15-17 due to a corporate buyout. And yes, most of the cash invested in my car is in the motor.

Agreed

Find a new Vette, Viper, or Caddy (reason for being on this list is beyond me) for $35K then we'll talk.

More power. Yes (8.0L vs 4.6 ). Better Looks. I agree w/ you on this. I have loved the Viper for as long as I have been into cars. Both my email & AIM s/n have Viper in them. Handling? No. Not sure about the 03 Vipers (haven't done my homework), but the previous chassis/body was NOT a good corner carver. Trust me
Your paying $15K more for a BULLET-PROOF bottom end, a 6spd trans, and all new body panels, new interior and an IRS that gives a smoother ride and has survived a 9 second run. (FYI, the 03's IRS is much stronger than the 99/01's)

Agreed

Yeah, most imports w/ their small displacement engines do make more hp/liter. BUT, did you ever think there is something else that a V8 muscle car owner wants? There is this thing called TORQUE. Ever hear of it? You won't get that from a small displacement, high-revving import. PERIOD.


And I think that's it

330RWHP

I have only seen TWO Cobras dyno that low. Here's a list of the baseline (stock) 03 dyno runs that I have seen and/or heard about (These are all SAE corrected RWHP #s):
380 (404 w/ a CAI and filter)
374
380
376
372
350 (poor guy )
363
383 (drop-in K&N)
360
The lowest one there equals 411.7hp at the crank (15% drivetrain loss)

MotorTrend ran the 03 at 12.7. And I hope everyone here realizes mag drivers aren't that great. So I don't know where you get 12.9-13.1. The lowest I have seen w/ my own eyes is a 12.5. He had the air silence removed (rubber snorkel on the stock airbox).

At 130mph, aerodynamics becomes quite a factor. The SS has a more streamlined design. Also, the LS1s have great top end...we all know this. But just because your not shifting, doesnt mean there cant be driver error. Hitting the rev limiter, hesitation, or you just got the jump on them early on. I don't know. I'm not stupid enough (anymore) to race that fast. I can't think of the peak RPMs of the 03s and SS's hp/tq power range. I know the 03 has peak torque down low around 3500...

scalbert

A motorcycle engine makes great HP/Liter but I certainly would not want it in my car. The current Cobra is an excellent vehicle for its purpose, tire shredding torque and acceleration with significant road handling and good braking. Yes, the interior is not the greatest but nor is it meant to be. You get a vehicle capable of high 12's stock with a warranty for about $35k.

As for the American engineering statement, seems to be coming from a lack of knowledge. GM powertrain is well more advanced in transmission technology than most of the Japanese counterparts. The electronic controls division has had significantly better knock monitoring and control system than nearly all other manufacturers. This is how the low tech GM L67 motor was able to achieve LEV status well before any other V6 engine got the same mark. And that same motor makes torque too, something most import engines lack.

Those are just a couple of examples, but there are many more. Take the Z06 for example, old school pushrod technology but with extreme engineering put into it and that is just the engine. Titanium exhaust and brakes of a race car but one’s which also last along with an incredible suspension. The overall vehicle is a testament to engineering when this product can be made available to the public for about $50k.

numbaonestunna

Let's see what the last part of your post was....

"American Engineering sucks?"

You can see how someone who works in the engineering field might be offended.

Horsepower to liter is more difficult the larger your engine is. Rotating mass increases, frictional losses, increase, etc etc. Is there a Japanese or German motor that has better horsepower/liter efficiency for that size (4.6L) I'm not being facetious, I really am curious.

scalbert

Just taking the advertised crank values the Cobra has 83.7 Hp/L.

Compare that to the E46 M3 which has 104 Hp/L

Or the S2000 which has 120 Hp/L

Or even the CL-S at 81.25 Hp/L

But with that said, the S2000 has a very low torque output. Torque accelerates the vehicle.

Bluto

Yeah, cost 2X to get. To get a V8 in an import car, you have to look at a luxury brand, and spend 40k. Lexus has a 4.3L 300HP/325TQ, BMW a 4.4L 290/320, Infiniti 4.5L 340/333. Toyota uses a similar V8 in their trucks from the Lex.

Hard to beat the 260/302 in a GT.

Titand19

Numbaonestunna, I do see where you could get offended. I did not have any intentions of offending anyone. Obviously my statement about American engineering was a bit harsh and to a part untrue. I just assummed you were some little kid cause that's what I interpreted from your reply. Most adults wouldn't go off on someone and call them a jackass without some proper justification. Interms of the technology part, I guess you got me there. Scalbert is backing you up also. In terms of the patents and America inventing the car I think I got you there. There is no point in having this arguement, where is LBC?

A bunch of the japanese luxury brands do put down close to the HP of a Cobra, Thht's only if price is not taken into consideration. The Q45 I believe puts down approx 340hp and it has plenty of torque. It's also NA. I guess it's a matter of preference. The majority of the members on this board could have easily purcahsed a Cobra, it's a matter of class vs. performance. Plus insurance on a Cobra beats the crap out of you.

the swede

Oh sure, my whole reply gets consolidated to "blah blah blah" :P

ferizzo

I love the Cobras for what they are...speed monsters! I also love the CLS for what it is a pretty good compromise of lux and speed.

No if only I could afford an E55 then I'd have the best of everything!

numbaonestunna

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by numbaonestunna
Is there a Japanese or German motor that has better horsepower/liter efficiency for that size (4.6L) I'm not being facetious, I really am curious.

Just taking the advertised crank values the Cobra has 83.7 Hp/L.

Compare that to the E46 M3 which has 104 Hp/L

Or the S2000 which has 120 Hp/L

Or even the CL-S at 81.25 Hp/L

But with that said, the S2000 has a very low torque output. Torque accelerates the vehicle...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah, that's why I said for that size. Go down even smaller to a motorcyce and you'll get even better values...

scalbert

I would hold the rolleyes for a moment. The Cobra is blown to about 7.5 PSI boost (from what I recall) putting its effective displacement at about 6.9 liters This makes its effective HP/L value at 55.8.

So you wanted the same or larger engines with a better number. How about the the follwoing done without forced induction.

M5 = 80 HP/L
LS6 = 71 HP/L

and these two are NA...

But if forced induction is allowed then my CL-S6SC makes an effective HP/L value of about 115.6... :P

GS Dave

Heck, if you're talking modded, as a CL SC is, then hold on, there are 2.0 litre motors making 700+HP. For a street car, the blown Cobras are modding quite well, and are well over 100HP per liter. Actually, stock 03 Cobras are pretty close, we all know the 390 is a bogus number. And before you say, yam but blower. Sure its blown, but it also has lower compression. Just like my Regal. I only have 8.5:1. Whats a CL? I would think over 10:1? I just don't know.

I hate the HP/Ltr arguement. Can't we just talk about what car is faster? Hp/litre is only relevent when discussing motors of similar size.

widerGTP

35K? How about the new lancer EVO. Just about equal in acceleration and a bit more nimble as well. But for my preference I'd take a cobra = more potential.


HP/liter is crap.
Here: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCFP9&P=0
There's a little less than 480 hp per liter. You wanna put that in your car?

Also when coming up with HP/liter arguements, and ya calculate an engine with forced induction you are discounted it's effective displacement. If it's boosting 14.7 just double the liters for it's effective displacement. Absolute is 14.7.



In closing......... I like cars. They all do the same thing in soooooo many different ways.

Chrisbert

I wouldn't even think of racing a Cobra!

scalbert

I agree, that was the reason for the smileys at the end.

The HP/L arguement was brought up and as such the questions were responded to. But now you brought up another question, do we want to know which cars are faster or which cars are quicker...

330RWHP

EXACTLY!!

oonowindoo

someone give me 15G please... then i will race u