Dom418

Just thought I'd post this for anyone that may be interested.... They are $75 each...

Here's a pic




Here's the link:
ROTORS

Look under the Acura/Honda listing, the last one is for the CL-S.

DOM

sorty

Worth $75 a piece?....Anybody?

EricS

Considering they have no real info on their web page about the rotors, I wouldn't do it. Where do they get their blanks? Plus they say it's okay to use stock pads on the rotors. I don't think that's a good thing to do. I know the Powerslots I have recommend higher performance pads with their rotors, like Metal Masters or Porterfields.

I don't claim to be a brake expert, but only real reason I see to buy these are for looks. If you want better performance in your brakes it's still best to look into better pads instead of rotors.

peiqinglong

Doesn't the cross drilled pattern/design assist in disappating heat thus preventing warped rotors?

chikai

these rotors aren't even completely drilled through...they're "dimpled". I have never seen anything like this before.

Wouldn't that cause gas to get trapped in the dimple thereby decreasing brake performance. I really question the effectiveness of these brakes.

EricS

Warped rotors are usually caused by rapid changes in temperature. Like wetting down your wheels or applying your parking brake only a few minutes after a run.

Dissipating heat for the cross drilled decreases brake fade & the holes offer less rotational mass. But along with that it decreases the amount of surface area for the brake pads to come into contact with.

I've heard a representative from Carbotech say that they have yet to prove that slotted or cross-drilled rotors provide any benefit other than looking cool. As for outgassing, he said that was only with older brakes and only when those were new. The only benefit now is that it slightly helps in the rain to remove steam, and that they "look cool".

Dom418

Hey guys, I just want to say that by starting this thread, I am NOT RECOMMENDING these to anyone.... I just posted it because it seemed like a good deal for new Rotors.

I am not buying and do not know anything about them other that what the link says....

DOM

dgracer

Are our rotors for the Type-S pressed on like the 90-9x Accord? I recall having to spend extra $$ on my 91 Accord to turn the rotors because they needed to press them off and back on again.

thanks,

EricS

Pressed on? Not really. All you need are 2 properly sized bolts to push them off the hub. And then tightening up the lug nuts pushes the rotor back on. (This is typical for the drive wheels on all cars.)

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

I just sent them this email. Let's see what they say!!




I saw the group buy you have going on for the drilled and slotted
rotors. I have an 01 Acura CL Type S. I saw that you have the
rotors for my car in the group buy. My question is, what blanks
do you use?? Why do you dimple drill instead of going all the
way through?? Can you give me the specs for the replacement
rotors for my car?? If I buy the rotors, I just want to make sure
they will fit. There are not a lot of aftermarket parts for my car,
so I hope you understand my concerns. I hope to hear from
you soon. Thanks in advance for all your time and effort!!


Roel Solis Jr.

EricL

RE: "Proving..."


Well, it does seem strange that most of the folks using cast-iron rotors (Brembo included) do cross-drill the disks. There is a trade-off (as you mention) between lower weight, and slightly improved cooling vs. cracking and lower heat capacity (thermal Inertia).

If a set of brake pads is properly bedded, the amount of out-gassing with some of the very new pad compounds is minimal, but there is always going to be a bit of sublimation and most pads will glaze over. (So, I would say that the outgassing issue is dependent on the many different qualities of brake pads, how they are broken-in, and what temperatures and temp. extremes they experience.)

IMO, the slotting is of benefit for most "street" cars using slotted rotors and the "wiping" ability alone is worth it...

SinnedTL

I have just the fronts ordered through raceconcepts.net and should be slotted by tomorrow, according to Wood from raceconcepts...I will be picking them up personally from their office on thursday, so I will let you guys know, I didnt get the dimples because for mostly street it is not that useful, especially with a stock sized rotor (dont want to minimize surface area) plus I wanted to be able to turn the rotors in the future...anyways I will measure the diameter and everything once I have them in my hands, plus the install wont be for another month or so until I can get some money to buy me some EBC greenstuff pads for the fronts and possibly some carbo lined brake lines, but other than that, I wont really touch the rears, since they hardly wear and they only do about 30% of the braking...

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

COOL!!! Post some pics when you get them!!!!! If you can ask him the questions that I asked in my email posted above, that would be GREAT!!!!! I have not heard back from them yet, and I am sure they have a ton of email to go through!!! Keep us posted!!!!

SinnedTL

To answer some of the questions you had above, let me clarify some of them, first of all, they probably get the blanks outsourced or they cast them themselves...because they can make any size for any car, custom made, which means that they use the same material to make rotors for BMWs and other cars as well as our Acura's which means that quality cannot be too bad or else, higher end car buyers would notice a big difference and would never buy from them again...anyways Ill try to ask, but about the dimple drilled and slotted rotors, one of the most well known brake parts manufacturer EBC(which Tirerack.com carries), which alot of people who track their car use...have their own rotors, which are btw dimple drilled and slotted instead of drilled through, and their explanation is that the rotors will be stronger and less likely to crack at the drilled parts of the rotor which is usually what happens when cross drilled rotors go bad...here is the link of the EBC sport rotors that are blind drilled...http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/ebc/rotors.jsp

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

Here is the answer to the above email. I got it at work today. Quick response. I like what he had to say. For $300, you can have all four rotors!! I will be deciding soon, I will let you all know what I do. I am still waiting for SinnedTL to get his and post his thoughts!!I do have it in stock.


We use EMC rotors, these are very hi quality rotors. Dimple is less prone to crack. Dimple and slotted gives you the same cross drilled and slotted rotors. Drilled all the way through create alot of stress on the rotors, that is why they crack very easily. Also front vented rotors has to be balanced. The manufacture puts weights in between the vein to balance the rotors. When you drill it all the way through, the tool touches the weight and break the tools. Every company remove the weights and throw them away. This makes the rotor unbalance and will warp very fast.
We are 1 of only 2 company, that manufacture this type of rotors. These are the next generation of cross drilled and slotted rotors. It is all around the best out there. The only reason drilled through rotors are on the market, is because it is fast to produce. You drill it and it goes through from side to side. Dimple takes longer, but it is much better.

Let me know. I do have it in stock.

(714) 547-3581

Thanks Wood

Caddy©

I haven't forgotten you guys; I just haven't gotten my Rotors yet. He told me I should have them by today--Wednesday. Soon as I have them, I'll post impressions and revive the groupbuy, IF everything is K O S H E R !

Fabvsix

I called Wood. He recomends the following:
Normal driving/fun driving: ONLY Drilled and front only with stock pads is fine.
If you like to go to the race track, he recommends either of the two displayed in this thread.

However, he doesn't have the ones for me and would have to make them. Anyone know this company ? Is it reputable or a fly by night .com.............

I'm waiting for you guys advise !

P.S. $75.00 for each "drilled" rotor ONLY.........

EricL

Heck, if price isn't the primary criteria, why not get the fronts from Tim and just get them in the slotted version. (I haven't heard any complaints yet [anyone know different???])

The Poterfield R4S pads (you'd be best off putting them on the front and rear), are Carbon-Kevlar. I've tried them on a members car with the slotted rotors and SS lines and the feel was excellent hot and cold.

You will pay more than what's being offered here...

The correct part #s are AP-787 and AP-365. The price quote from a while back was $220.85 (front and rear set) including shipping.

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/

Place for pads:

(949) 548-4470 · Fax (949) 548-7783
1767 Placentia Ave. · Costa Mesa, CA · 92627

I don't know if Tim has them for the CLS, but you could ask. They have less dust and don't squeal and run well in cold and hot

As a note: when it comes to "blanks", the grain, heat treatment, and other factors can have a large effect on warping. IF a jobber goes to different "foundries", there can be dramatic changes in quality from "great" to "not-so-great"... YMMV

And, as I've mentioned, it is important to "bed" the brakes (regardless of who supplies the pads). The "bedding" info is usually available on the site. IMO, it really makes a difference...

Fabvsix

Thanks EricL. Sorry that we were unable to make contact a month back. It's been hectic lately....Anyhow, I will make that move, because my rotors are WARPED AGAIN. They go warped from my drive to LA and back. Otherwise, the car is in the garage 98% of the time. I am reaching 50K and I know even if my dealership offer to surface, IT'S NOT ADVISABLE ! They were surfaced at 30K under warranty etc.......Fooking brakes on this car SUCK !

I drove my Accord Coupe last night. It has 98K+ miles and the brakes FEEL so much better.........btw, never had warped rotors on this car. Infact, I didn't know what the fook warped rotors were until I bought this Acura............

SinnedTL

Okay Guys, esp. AztecRol

I just picked up my rotors, let me give you some info, I met with Wood and saw his shop, I went in to pick up my rotors and he has a whole mess of rotors in his shop...he uses brembo blanks, as well as EMC which is the one that fits our cars, and a bunch of other quality companies, these particular ones that fit our car are Zinc Dipped Coated, which is even coated inside the vents...the quality is very good and as you can see, they are the exact size, 11.8 inches in diameter...anyways I am very happy with these for $75 for a piece and Wood is very knowledgeable...He bought the $60,000 dollar machine that slots and dimple drills the rotors, so he can basically drill any rotor for any car...the rotor is a quality piece...if you guys need more specific info let me know or go to Wood's website at www.raceconcepts.net

Maybe I should have gotten dimpled and slotted, but anyways I am really happy...but if you guys want, get it dimpled and slotted because Wood assured me these shouldn't warp...but anyways you should bed in new pads everytime, every rotor has the possbility of warping if you brake like a maniac and throw cold water on it...but besides extreme situations, these shouldn't warp on you...

here are some pics...

SinnedTL

another one...

soopa

those loook hot.

can you weigh them, and your stock rotors while your at it?

SinnedTL

when I install them...not now...

Fabvsix

SinnedTL:
did you get both front and rear and WHAT pad's and front and rear ?
I'm clueless, but know I need new rotors and better pads......

Let me know and thanks for checking out Wood and his shop.........

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

THANKS SinnedTL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THOSE LOOK SWEEEEET!!!!!! I will call woods and find out how much drilled and slotted will run. Maybe I can get a group buy going for the CL and TL board!!!! OK, maybe not the TL board!!!! But I am very impressed with how they look!!!!! I think drilled and slotted would look AWESOME!!!!! Thanks agian SinnedTL!!!!!!!

LegendC

Many Legend folks have gone through Mr. Wood and raceconcepts.com for our dimpled and slotted rotors. I have a set on my Legend Coupe right now and they work great. The ones for the Legends were Brembo up font and Bradi in the back, (Bradi makes the cores for Brembo so they are really the same and look/feel identical) You should notice a nice improvement in braking "bite" for panic stops and much much less fade under freeway speed braking. I am using the stock pads right now but the real benefit comes with the aftermarket pads. The pads will make a bigger difference in braking performance than the rotors (unless you go with a bigger rotor), the benefit of x-drilled and slotted rotors is you can run more agressive pads without warping these rotors. The stocks would not stand a chance with the high metal content pads.

SinnedTL

I dont think a group buy would lower the price much more, plus I dont think you should try to do a group buy, it's not a big company and Wood runs this by himself so dont try to lower it...it would suck for him...trust me it's a small shop...not a company...just do yourself a favor and buy it from him, it is low as it is, OH YEA did I mention this is the price he is offering at www.groupbuycenter.com anyways...so it is low as is...

fabvsix, I didn't buy the rears because I have alot of pad left in the back and only 30% of the braking is done by the rear brakes at the MOST...and even Wood said I didn't need it and he was a mechanic and was in racing before he got into this...but rear is mostly for looks...I will change them when they need replacement but not now...BTW I am going to get the EBC GreenStuff pads from Tirerack.com...Alot of BMW trackers and Audi's use this brand with alot of success, and seems better than Axxis and other brands...

Dennis

SinnedTL

It's raceconcepts.NET not .COM...

just so that other people dont end up at a dead link...

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

I was hoping to get a better price for the drilled and slotted rotors not the ones you got!!! $75 each for the ones you have is an AWESOME price. I am sure that the drilled and slotted will be a lot more. Thanks again for the info, I will keep you posted with what I am gonna do. I need to order them soon!!!!

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

I just got off the phone with Wood. He just told me that the rotors a $75 each for Slotted, Drilled, or Drilled and Slotted!!!!!!!!
That is an AWESOME PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!! He has the fronts in stock and needs to make the rears. So he said it would take a couple of day!! I am checking my financial status, (seeing which credit card has the most room!!!!), and I will be ordering them ASAP!!!!
I will probably get the ebc greens or the Poterfield R4S pads. I will let you all know as soon as I get them and I will take pics!!!!
This may be the best deal on a mod yet!!!!!!

Fabvsix

OK, I'll be odering mine as well after I talk to Acura about installation and warranty risks.....if any.......

99CL

OKay guys...i emailed him asking about for the first gen. He said he has brembo and EMC. Which rotor would you guys recommend? I'm planning on getting the dimple and slotted. But i just want to know which rotors to pick.

EricL

You might want to check him out...


He has the slotted + dimpled (can be cut about 2mm or so).

The new "blanks" are from EMC -- are balanced AS IS.

The dimples are not used for any balancing, so disks can be happily "cut" with or without the dimples.

He also can get the Porterfield and has a good price...

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

had to bump this

showgunz

First off EricS, how does engaging the parking brake after a hard application of the brakes cause warpage? Most of the warpage usually comes from the front rotors. Your parking brake is engaged in the rear. And believe me, I use my parking brake a lot after hard braking so that I can let the rotor cool down. It'll cool down more if you don't press the brake pedal because there will be more convective (metal to air) heating than conductive (metal to metal).

Now the reply to the whole thread:

Hey guys. Let me give you my feedback on brakes. I've researched quite a bit on this subject and I can give you some advice that may shock some of you. Well, it may not be a big deal but let me try anyway. First of all, cross-drilling and slotting aren't that beneficial for street use. You may see some benefits when you're braking every 10 seconds from 100 MPH to 50 MPH and so on. I can't think of an everyday scenario of that, but it can help.

Because you don't face too many situations to reach the limits of brake fade, cross-drilling and slotting is more cosmetic than anything. Slotting and cross-drilling have been known to warp more than stock rotors. Especially PowerStop cross-drilled rotors. Some PowerSlot rotors have also been known to warp after spirited use. By the way, PowerSlot rotors are Brembo blank OEM size rotors that are slotted by PowerSlot.

Now you may say, why do people still buy them? It's mainly for looks. And they aren't that expensive. These are not the $2000 Gran Tourismo Brembo brake kits so replacing these rotors every 2 years is fine for some.

Why are Brembo and other high-end OEM tuners (i.e. AMG) using cross-drilling and slotting techniques? Well, with these companies they thoroughly test their applications. And the rotors are often adequate (12.0"+) and take high loads of temperature variations well. And cars with these rotors are often high-performance so you WOULD see the benefit of cross-drilling and slotting.

Plus, many of them are CAST cross-drilled rotors. These are different than aftermarket rotor companies that machine the holes in. Cast holed rotors are structurally stronger but also more expensive.

The dimple holes on these rotors are also more cosmetic. The dimples are too shallow to provide effective ventilation. But then again, the rotors don't lose as much mass as cross-drilled rotors are.

So the bottom line is this: you can get better warpage resistance if you increase the size of your brake rotors and appropriate pads. If you can't afford bigger rotor kits, get high-quality blank rotors. Brembo blanks are fine. Put high-performance pads on and you'll stop quicker. Rotors hardly do much to the equation of braking performance. Cast iron is cast iron.

I hope I gave you guys some insight in brakes. If you guys have more questions, feel free to ask me. I don't know a lot but I've done some research to support what I said. Also, ask any auto-crosser about brakes. They know the best in what to use. These guys would experience brake warpage the most. Not too many people drive through a downpour after driving through a road course or do a car wash after a hard braking run. Well, at least I hope not.

Get quality blank rotors and good pads! Pads are what will give you shorter distances!

EricS

Well, you said it right there. For example: After a hard run, you pull the car to a stop, pull parking brake. Wouldn't the pad contact area with the rear rotors cool slower than the rest of the rotor? Isn't that grounds for warping? A better way is to just put the car in gear to have the tranny hold the car from moving instead of the brake pads.

I believe you are talking about after a spirited run if you are sitting at a light, that you put your parking brake on, to help cool the fronts. I would think a better idea is to leave a bunch of room behind the car in front of you. And then procede with a pulsating motion on the brakes, easing ever so closer. Therefore minimizing the time spent of the pad on one spot of the rotor.

Quick link I found:
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylo...RotorWarp.html

I agree with basically everything else you said.

BTW, the serious MR2 road racers use solid rotors.

showgunz

EricS, I don't think engaging the parking brake would warp the rear rotors. I mean, unless if I was racing that day perhaps. But not for everyday driving. It's because rear braking bias is only like 35% with majority of the braking done by the front brakes. But the best thing would be just putting the car in Park than even using the parking brake, yes. It's better than keeping the foot on the brake pedal and let the rotors get continually get cooked by the pressed pads. That's what I was more worried about than parking brake causing warpage.

And to tell you the truth, I've hardly seen any FWD car owners say they warped their rear rotors. So I don't think much about using the parking brake after using the brakes hard. I just care about cooling the front brakes as best as I can.

Oh yeah, thanks for the tips (URL). Those BMW guys are racing, though! I'm sure they deal with the brake issue more seriously than many of us do. I'm assuming people on this board do more street driving than anything.

You know, maybe Honda did underestimate the size of the brake rotors for the CL-S. Because these aren't lightweight MR2's (I'm betting that their rotors don't get as hot as CL-S'). But then again, you see brake warpage stories on almost any make and model. It's really dependent on the driver's use and care.

I like the quote on the BMW web page you linked, "Rotor warpage is not caused by the heat - it's caused by uneven cooling". I agree pretty strongly.

But the thing is, when you drive around in a lightweight car such as a MR2 Spyder, your brakes aren't as susceptible to uneven cooling as you'd see on heavier cars such as the CL-S. The reason is heavier cars with undersized rotors are likely to heat up the rotors higher than lightweight cars (unless if their rotors are even more undersized in proportion). The CL-S rotors are probably more sensitive to proper brake cooling than MR2's are. It wouldn't take as much braking force to stop a MR2 vs. a CL-S, you know? But anyway, that last bit is my theory. It's not based on research or anything, just some observations.

So, EricS, I take it you haven't warped your rotors yet because of that handy guide eh? I think I've warped 2 rotors in my limited 6 years of driving. But I'm getting better. I certainly make my pads go the distance though. Later.

Red Rider

Well, for what it's worth, on our West Coast Meet drive to Crater Lake we were driving very aggressively and pulled over for a few minutes and Aztecrol and i touched his stock rotor and it was red hot, my new cross drilled Comptechs were warm but not nearly as hot. Definitely disappates heat way better.

EricS

Well, the 85/6 MR2's are known for easily warped stock rotors. Toyota made them larger in 87+. Of the 10 years I've had my '85, I've never had a problem with them. I just replaced the original rotors (17 years old, 130k miles) on the car 5 months ago, and I did the 87+ conversion because I plan on autoxing this car in the future. I went with slotted rotors though. They look sharp

showgunz

Cool, no pun intended . I do hope your Comptech's never warp. But I've heard of many warpage stories where the common element was cross-drilled rotors. Even AEM is switching to slotted rotors in their Big Rotor Kit. The current ones are cross-drilled and slotted but the new ones in '03 are to be slotted only. And I've heard of a few cases of AEM big rotors getting warped.

Did you notice on the brim (along the ventilation vanes on the rotor) a Brembo name stamped on there? I'm wondering whether Comptech is selling rebadged PowerStop rotors.