Cop citation quotas...
02-25-2004, 05:49 PM
#1
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Cop citation quotas...
is there such thing?
today i drove from diamond bar to LAX and saw almost 10 cops giving out tickets...
someone said it might be a quota cuz its the end of the month...
is that true?
today i drove from diamond bar to LAX and saw almost 10 cops giving out tickets...
someone said it might be a quota cuz its the end of the month...
is that true?
02-25-2004, 06:04 PM
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just like a slaesman is "encouraged" to make as many sales as possible, cops are the same way. my cousin is a cop and he says that his supervisors like to see that he is working. he shows how hard he has worked by the number of calls responded to vice his number of tickets written. they don't all have to be citations, some can be warnings, but remember most states are in a budget crisis, and emphasis is being put on the police to raise revenue.
02-25-2004, 06:53 PM
#4
Yeah. I saw a real heffer huffing and puffing to get back to her patrol car today so she could pull out and get behind some people she waved down due to her partner's radar gunning up a curved hill.
02-25-2004, 08:37 PM
#7
I shave my change purse
They are not necessarily called "Quotas", but it does exsist.
My brother is a Cop with NYPD, and if he ends the month with less than 20 moving violations written, he is "kindly" spoken to by his supervisor to get more next month, and if he doesn't do 25 the month after that, he is surprisingly given unfavorable jobs like standing on dark corners at midnight is the worst neighborhoods if you know what I mean. He's been there and done that plenty of times because he hate writing tickets. Go figure.
It is nothing you can prove actually happens, becasue there is nothing written on paper. That is why all of the upper brass deny it happens, becasue it can't be proven.
My brother is a Cop with NYPD, and if he ends the month with less than 20 moving violations written, he is "kindly" spoken to by his supervisor to get more next month, and if he doesn't do 25 the month after that, he is surprisingly given unfavorable jobs like standing on dark corners at midnight is the worst neighborhoods if you know what I mean. He's been there and done that plenty of times because he hate writing tickets. Go figure.
It is nothing you can prove actually happens, becasue there is nothing written on paper. That is why all of the upper brass deny it happens, becasue it can't be proven.
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02-25-2004, 10:09 PM
#8
Got da Internet Goin Nutz
It's their job. If they do it a lot it looks they are doing their job. If they do it a little it looks like they aren't doing their job.
02-25-2004, 10:34 PM
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I've been driving on the highway for about 15 years going to work and I always see more cops at the end of the month. It's rare to see them during "rush hour" when it is not the end of the month. So I think they have some kind of quotas.
02-25-2004, 10:47 PM
#10
Drifting
No quotas in TX. Its against a state statute I believe. Hazardous citations always tend to reflect well on the officer issuing the citation, but there are not quotas.
02-26-2004, 12:13 AM
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It is against almost every state's laws to have quotas as to how many citations an officer must write. However, as many have pointed out, there are many unwritten quotas. Although it may not seem it from the average motorist's point of view (since they have to pay the big fine), most of these unwritten quotas are not because the city/town wants more revenue, but rather because it is a documented way to see which officers are doing their job and which ones aren't. An officer who doesn't write any citations on a shift may still be doing his job but it's hard to prove it to a supervisor. Those that write citations on a regular basis have proof that they were actually on the street doing police work.
End of the month quotas are probably more rare than just daily quotas. I know of one department in my area that unofficially had an "8 for 8" rule. That meant an officer was expected to write 8 citations in an 8 hour shift, or one an hour. It didn't matter if the citation was just a written warning or a $500 fine, just as long as the officer was out there enforcing the laws.
End of the month quotas are probably more rare than just daily quotas. I know of one department in my area that unofficially had an "8 for 8" rule. That meant an officer was expected to write 8 citations in an 8 hour shift, or one an hour. It didn't matter if the citation was just a written warning or a $500 fine, just as long as the officer was out there enforcing the laws.
02-26-2004, 05:29 PM
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The 'data' per each officer can easily be tabulated... since every ticket is a 'record' in court - just in case the 'victim' tries to contest it. So ALL tickets written by ALL officers are dB'd and I am certain some court clerks have access, if they'd be curious to find it re. 'quotas' per area, per region, etc.
I as well saw more cops yesterday for instance then usual... The 'law of nature' is constant as in any industry... i.e. 'pressures of end of month'
...
I as well saw more cops yesterday for instance then usual... The 'law of nature' is constant as in any industry... i.e. 'pressures of end of month'
...
02-27-2004, 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by EricL
Unspoken quotas are...
Unspoken quotas are...
02-27-2004, 03:39 AM
#16
Suzuka Master
If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a quota,
Originally posted by duy
My brother is a CHP and he told me there are no quotas. Although he is "encouraged" to give out at least 5 tickets per day to show that he is working.
My brother is a CHP and he told me there are no quotas. Although he is "encouraged" to give out at least 5 tickets per day to show that he is working.
All of this turns into politically correct terminology and euphemisms. I actually found a few posts on the web that claim to be copies of internal bulletins, from local police commanders, reprimanding officers for not producing an expected amount and type of citations in a given period of time. IMO, that looks, feels, and smells like a quota. As to having an exact limit, one could even argue that in the days of when quotas were "officially enforced", some officers would be allowed some variance from a specified minimum.
The following quote come from the Nolo Press website, and they make very good books for a variety of legal topics:
“For example, sometimes police give out tickets in order to meet unspoken quotas to fill municipal coffers. Other times the officer doesn't understand the traffic laws or simply makes a mistake. If you have gotten a ticket you don't deserve, a little time, research and preparation can help you beat it.”
AND…
Wash. State Legislature Considers Bill Prohibiting Ticket Quotas
02/01/2004
By KENNETH P. VOGEL, The News Tribune
Drivers who are stopped for speeding shouldn't have to worry that the officer was just trying to meet a ticket quota, said state Rep. Shirley Hankins (R-Richland, Wash.).
She introduced a bill this week that would prohibit law enforcement agencies from requiring traffic officers to meet quotas for numbers of traffic stops, citations, arrests or warnings issued during any given time period. It also would prohibit agencies from using such data in evaluating job performance - controversial policies that some say state and local law groups employ now.
"We should allow them to do their job," Hankins said of traffic enforcement officers. But "if we tell them they have to go out and issue a certain number of tickets, that's wrong. That's bad policy."
Hankins said she got the idea for the bill after hearing concerns that former Washington State Patrol Chief Ronal Serpas, who left this month to become chief of police in Nashville, Tenn., supported quotas. Three law enforcement sources knowledgeable about the Patrol said Serpas instituted policies that amounted to quotas during his 2 1/2-year tenure.
A spokesman for Serpas in Nashville strongly denied that - a position echoed by current State Patrol officials.
"There absolutely is no quota system, nor has there ever been any discussion of installing a quota system within the Washington State Patrol," Lt. Mike DePalma said.
The head of the committee that's holding Hankins' bill said he wouldn't care if it did.
"I'm not going to give it a hearing," said Rep. Al O'Brien (D-Mountlake Terrace), chairman of the Criminal Justice and Corrections Committee.
A 29-year Seattle cop who retired in 1996, O'Brien said he was required to write one ticket per day during his 21 years as a patrol officer. He said traffic officers were probably expected to write even more, adding that quotas can help police root out crime and help management track productivity.
But Seattle police officer Deanna Nollette said her department hasn't had quotas for number of tickets or contacts in the eight years she's been on the force. Officials with the Tacoma Police Department and the Pierce County Sheriff's Department said their agencies don't, either.
Publicly, most law enforcement types recoil at the word. But privately, there's an escalating debate about what policies constitute quotas and whether some law enforcement agencies already use them.
At least a dozen states have passed laws similar to the one Hankins proposes, said Wisconsin state trooper Casey Perry, chairman of the National Troopers Coalition.
And in each case, Perry said, the rank and file supported the legislation, while the agencies opposed it.
That's true of Hankins' bill. The Washington Council of Police & Sheriffs and the Washington State Patrol Troopers Association support it, while the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs opposes it. The State Patrol hasn't taken a stance on it.
"It's really a hot potato in the law enforcement world," said Jonna VanDyk, spokeswoman for the Washington State Traffic Safety Commission. The agency issues grants to law enforcement agencies to pay for overtime to crack down on traffic crimes such as drunken driving and seat belt violations.
Because most grants are passed through from the federal government, the recipient agencies must adhere to a federal requirement to show three contacts - not arrests or citations - per hour.
"Bottom line is, we want to make sure that when we give a grant to an agency, they're going to do what they say they're going to do," VanDyk said. "Whether you call it a quota or whether you call it performance criteria, law enforcement managers out there need to know whether their officers are producing or whether they're at Dunkin' Donuts."
But Bill Hanson, executive director of the Washington Council of Police & Sheriffs and a retired 27-year state trooper, said quotas take discretion from officers and can breed distrust among those they're sworn to serve.
That's not true of the commission's three-contact-per-hour requirement, VanDyk said, adding that she welcomed Hankins' bill as a chance "to publicly explain what we're doing and why we're doing it." She said the State Patrol and other law enforcement agencies subject to the requirement are "perfectly capable of justifying it. It's all in the name of saving lives, and they've saved lives."
In the case of the State Patrol, they do that without quotas, said DePalma. He said there were 37 fewer traffic fatalities last year than in 2002, thanks in part to the State Patrol's aggressive enforcement of laws against speeding, seat belt violations, and drunken or aggressive driving.
The numbers of contacts and arrests related to those offenses increased significantly because they were targeted, not because of quotas, DePalma said.
Don Aaron, spokesman for the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department, said Serpas "was on record as repudiating quotas for the two and half years that he served on the Washington State Patrol."
DePalma acknowledged that the State Patrol - like the Tacoma Police Department - uses the number of contacts to judge the performance of their traffic officers, but he said that's just one of many factors.
That can still have the same effect as a quota, said Hanson. "If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a quota," he said.
Kenneth P. Vogel: 360-754-6093
ken.vogel@mail.tribnet.com
02/01/2004
By KENNETH P. VOGEL, The News Tribune
Drivers who are stopped for speeding shouldn't have to worry that the officer was just trying to meet a ticket quota, said state Rep. Shirley Hankins (R-Richland, Wash.).
She introduced a bill this week that would prohibit law enforcement agencies from requiring traffic officers to meet quotas for numbers of traffic stops, citations, arrests or warnings issued during any given time period. It also would prohibit agencies from using such data in evaluating job performance - controversial policies that some say state and local law groups employ now.
"We should allow them to do their job," Hankins said of traffic enforcement officers. But "if we tell them they have to go out and issue a certain number of tickets, that's wrong. That's bad policy."
Hankins said she got the idea for the bill after hearing concerns that former Washington State Patrol Chief Ronal Serpas, who left this month to become chief of police in Nashville, Tenn., supported quotas. Three law enforcement sources knowledgeable about the Patrol said Serpas instituted policies that amounted to quotas during his 2 1/2-year tenure.
A spokesman for Serpas in Nashville strongly denied that - a position echoed by current State Patrol officials.
"There absolutely is no quota system, nor has there ever been any discussion of installing a quota system within the Washington State Patrol," Lt. Mike DePalma said.
The head of the committee that's holding Hankins' bill said he wouldn't care if it did.
"I'm not going to give it a hearing," said Rep. Al O'Brien (D-Mountlake Terrace), chairman of the Criminal Justice and Corrections Committee.
A 29-year Seattle cop who retired in 1996, O'Brien said he was required to write one ticket per day during his 21 years as a patrol officer. He said traffic officers were probably expected to write even more, adding that quotas can help police root out crime and help management track productivity.
But Seattle police officer Deanna Nollette said her department hasn't had quotas for number of tickets or contacts in the eight years she's been on the force. Officials with the Tacoma Police Department and the Pierce County Sheriff's Department said their agencies don't, either.
Publicly, most law enforcement types recoil at the word. But privately, there's an escalating debate about what policies constitute quotas and whether some law enforcement agencies already use them.
At least a dozen states have passed laws similar to the one Hankins proposes, said Wisconsin state trooper Casey Perry, chairman of the National Troopers Coalition.
And in each case, Perry said, the rank and file supported the legislation, while the agencies opposed it.
That's true of Hankins' bill. The Washington Council of Police & Sheriffs and the Washington State Patrol Troopers Association support it, while the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs opposes it. The State Patrol hasn't taken a stance on it.
"It's really a hot potato in the law enforcement world," said Jonna VanDyk, spokeswoman for the Washington State Traffic Safety Commission. The agency issues grants to law enforcement agencies to pay for overtime to crack down on traffic crimes such as drunken driving and seat belt violations.
Because most grants are passed through from the federal government, the recipient agencies must adhere to a federal requirement to show three contacts - not arrests or citations - per hour.
"Bottom line is, we want to make sure that when we give a grant to an agency, they're going to do what they say they're going to do," VanDyk said. "Whether you call it a quota or whether you call it performance criteria, law enforcement managers out there need to know whether their officers are producing or whether they're at Dunkin' Donuts."
But Bill Hanson, executive director of the Washington Council of Police & Sheriffs and a retired 27-year state trooper, said quotas take discretion from officers and can breed distrust among those they're sworn to serve.
That's not true of the commission's three-contact-per-hour requirement, VanDyk said, adding that she welcomed Hankins' bill as a chance "to publicly explain what we're doing and why we're doing it." She said the State Patrol and other law enforcement agencies subject to the requirement are "perfectly capable of justifying it. It's all in the name of saving lives, and they've saved lives."
In the case of the State Patrol, they do that without quotas, said DePalma. He said there were 37 fewer traffic fatalities last year than in 2002, thanks in part to the State Patrol's aggressive enforcement of laws against speeding, seat belt violations, and drunken or aggressive driving.
The numbers of contacts and arrests related to those offenses increased significantly because they were targeted, not because of quotas, DePalma said.
Don Aaron, spokesman for the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department, said Serpas "was on record as repudiating quotas for the two and half years that he served on the Washington State Patrol."
DePalma acknowledged that the State Patrol - like the Tacoma Police Department - uses the number of contacts to judge the performance of their traffic officers, but he said that's just one of many factors.
That can still have the same effect as a quota, said Hanson. "If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a quota," he said.
Kenneth P. Vogel: 360-754-6093
ken.vogel@mail.tribnet.com
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