is it confirmed that the 2002 acura cl type-s is going to have a manual trans..??? and when will the new cl be coming out???

 

It’s been printed in several magazines and I’ve read twice as many reports on the NET, but nothing firm from Acura yet that I have seen.

Shawn S

 

Nothing's confirmed until you can touch it! There are a lot of credible stories about the 6 speed. This includes magazine articles and quotes from high level Honda executives. But there's nothing solid at the dealer level yet. I was at a dealer yesterday and saw their product literature for 2002. For the CL, it had a "what's new for 2002" thing. Nothing about a manual. Under transmission, it has automatic for all 4 ways the CL comes from the factory. (Premium, Type S, navi, no navi) WayneG on this board, service manager at Park Avenue Acura in NJ, confirms that there is no manual listed in any books he's seen. Maybe dealers are like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed shit.

 

I think it will takw Acura a long time to finally come totally clean with this. I'm sure that they want to get rid of their current stock and if the 6speed CL gets the same type of reception the IS300 did when it was anounced the manual was coming out (i.e. a lot of people decided to wait for the automatic)then it would be very bad for getting rid of the current cars.

I think Lexus screwed up bigtime with the way they put out the IS300--it seems like it was a very hasty release. Now, in 2002 there is going to be every kind of IS under the sun--wagon, convertible, two door (all rumored) and a manual is going to be optional like it should have been from the start. Did Lexus release the car just to hang with Acura's announcement of the CL? It sure does seem this way especially after reading many of the problems that the first generation Lex's have had.

 

This just isn't the way business is done by the auto manufacturer(s). I wish I could attempt to get into the details but I probably shouldn't [speculate]. I say this because your focus is on a short-term consumer orientation when in reality these things are based on long-term costs, long-term studies, the manufacturing process, factory production schedules, the economy in the US and in Japan, the relationship between Japan and the US (gvt and within the company) and other long-term strategies which take years to develop. Plus there might be some personal things. The CL could have been someone's pet project that got canned in 1999, only to get the nod again in 2001 "if you can make it work this time."

They simply don't see a manual come out in the competition, then turn around and release their own next time. Besides Acura is Japanese, which means they do business in America a bit differently.

IMO

[ 07-08-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]

 

A wagon and manual sedan are absolutely available this August. Whatever coupe and convertible you've seen are pure speculation and Photoshop.

Let me also inject some perspective to temper your opinion.

To say that the IS300 was "a hasty release" because there weren't the coupe, convertible, and manual variants is to also say that all generations of the 3-series were rushed, all series of the C-class were rushed, the A4 was rushed, and the TL/CL was rushed. All of these cars were introduced as a sedan for the first year, and didn't get coupe/convertible/wagon variants until a year or two after their initial introduction. Some of them eventually got manuals, some of them never did, and some of them keep rumoring of it without any real fruition.

I guess by that particular standard you've chosen, every car on the market is in some form or another a "hasty release". Being that would be completely devoid of a point, I'm sure you meant something else, right?

Not likely. The Altezza was introduced in 1998, where it went on to win consequtive Japanese Car of the Year awards (awarded by the Japanese automotive press corp.) in both 1998 and 1999. TMC likely got the ball rolling for a NA model in early 1999, after encouragement by great 1998 sales figures and that first award.

You need to understand that the Internet amplifies the opinions and experiences of the few. I can tell you from personal experience, car meets, and acquaintances that also have the IS300 that it is quite a trouble-free ride. If I took what I read here on this forum at face value, I could come away with the opinion that the CL must have been designed by Fiat and assembled by the Chrysler of 20 years ago. I realize that it is obviously not the case. You should also realize the same, esp. in light of the J.D. Powers initial quality survey statistics on the IS300 that I'm sure you've seen.

From this forum's perspective the IS300 is competition for the CL's. OTOH, I would think that very few people in Toyota/Acura/media thinks the CL's are competition for the IS300. Besides sharing a price point, the cars are as different as they can be. There is no reason why Toyota/Lexus would bother to introduce a small, sporty, RWD sedan to counter a large, comfy, FWD CL when they already have a large, comfy, FWD Solara that is already a hit amongst empty-nesters. The sights are set across the globe, at the small, sporty, RWD/AWD sedans of the Europeans that occupy a desireable (read: profitable and prestigious) market niche that no Japanese automaker had then tackled. Doubtlessly, Honda/Acura wants a piece of the same "European enthusiast" pie, as evidenced by their production of the S2000 roadster. But it's going to take awhile before Honda/Acura fans will have something that is a true competitor to the IS300. (Curiously, nothing in the segment is targeted to compete with any other car except the venerable 3-series. But by aiming at the same target, they become de-facto competitors.)

kensteele: As far as I understand it, Acura is less of a Japanese company w/a mostly American boardroom. They work with Honda closely in certain respects but can be astonishingly separate in others. This is one reason why Comptech is the "official" tuner of Acura cars (even Japanese built/tuned ones) instead of Mugen. Being the first to try to crack the American upper market segment, I remember an article having a Japanese Honda rep say something to the effect that to succeed in America one needed to think and operate like an American. Thus they established a fresh arm w/very little influence from Honda Japan. Sometimes this has worked against the two companies, (early in the days of Lexus and Infinit's boom, don't you think Acura wanted a LS400/Q45 competitor, but got the half-hearted RL3.5?) which is why despite having been in the US market longer than any other Japanese luxury marque, it is not the strongest.

Honda, OTOH, is very Japanese. Not to say that being Japanese is particularly any better, but you have to admit that Honda has put up a better fight in both market volume and image against Toyota and Nissan than Acura has against Lexus and Infiniti.

[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: DtEW ]