nvpscore

THATS WHY its the worst photochop, since CAI cant go up to main throttle DUH!

PEACE

Nick

JZ

For whoever asked if that would put our car under 5.7 seconds 0-60......it damn well better considering people have hit or exceeded that mark on GTECH already (Scalbert).

Also, someone else mentioned that because our trannies are so crappy we are going to get less power output than an Accord. Idon't quite understand this one. From everything I have heard the automatics on the Accords are among the worst performing transmissions around.


I dunno. It looks to me like Comptech is going to be in for a lot of transmission troubles with this baby going into the automatic TL, CL and Accord. I wouldn't even think about installing this without a level 10 mod plus tranny cooler. More reasonably, waiting until the 6 speed comes out would probably be a better idea.

One thing I don't think we are taking into consideration much is how tough to handle our cars it is going to become with so much power going to the front wheels.

I, for one, wouldn't put this on my front wheel drive car even if I had money to burn. Not to rain on anyone else's parade though--on the contrary I can't wait to see some 1/4mile times!

ruvz

I would think they stick it in the trunk

scalbert

That looks to be an Eaton unit, looks a little small for the M90 (which I hope it is) so it might be an M62. But the specs will tell.

Any mention of the drive ratio?? I'd like to see what pressure ratio is expected and what it varies based on RPM. But if it is an M62 that greatest ratio would be 2:1 since you really don't want to turn it over 14k. At this rate it would move 124ci per engine rotation. On a 4 stroke 3.2 L engine that would be a ratio of a1.27:1 or a boost level of about 4 PSI Boost.

So now my guess would be that it is a M90 turning slower to aid in efficiency. I would guess that 5 PSI would be max on this high of a CR. So a blower speed ratio of about 1.45 would be needed turning the blower just over 10k revs at redline putting it in it's peak efficiency range in most of our power band (which would now be expanded).

Dizzy

Sorry...I smell BS here. Explain to me how someone from Canada would have a prototype the Comptech Supercharger that was researched, developed, and made in California?

I know for a fact that Comptech got the Accord V6 from American Honda. Despite repeated offers to donate one of our SHO V6'er's cars....and our lead man, MoMoney's car as a tester, Comptech refused all of our offers and told us due to liability concerns, AH will give them a car.

I assume the same thing happened with their tester cars for the TL and the CL.

Also keep in mind that me, MoMoney, Gimmick and many others from SHO were the ones who pushed hard for the SC for our V6 since it was released back in October 1997. One of main arguments was that it could easily be used along the entier J30/j32 line engines. Since then, we've kept in constant contact with Mike B and MoMoney even arranged the Comptech facility meet this past summer. It's taken us 4 years to get to this point...finally.

Dyno's. They have them. But due to constant tweaking...and until they release the product next spring...don't expect to see any final dynos. I remember hearing that they were gonna dyno the Accord V6 prototype during the COmptech meet...but since the power had gone out, they couldn't do it.

Also keep in mind that all participants were NOT allowed to take pictures of the SC during the meet. So, excuse me if I doubt your claims of having a prototype SC in your car.

Ironically, I'm planning to get a TL-S next fall. By that time, I fully expect the SC to be on the list of options at local Acura dealers. ANd that's how I'm gonna pay for it Tick off the SC option and have it included in my monthly payments hehehe....

Dizzy

scalbert

I'd like to see a proper transaxle setup before completely stating there is an absolute for tranny failure with this addition. I would say that a decreased life expectancy would be definite but how long that is with a properly set up system cannot be said.

What I mean is proper filter, cooling and lubrication for the stock transaxle. There are no external cooling lines so the only place to tap would be near the filter. I was planning on looking at this here shortly and possibly try some Redline fluid in there, this is after a few weeks with a trans fluid temp sensors in place...


Either way this is very interesting as I was not expecting to see a roots blower in there (although I am glad to see it). I do find the installation to be extremely nice work especially the composite piping and relocation of the TB and VSA throttle. Excellent work IMO...

JRock

Yay, another Comptech mod I can't afford.

Not that the stock tranny could handle it.


So say it's around $4200 + install ($800?), plus a level 10 tranny upgrade ($1000?), plus headers $1100 + install $100.

So I could spend $7200 to make my CLS a 360-400hp machine (assuming the headers still add at least 30hp). I guess considering how much it costs to SC an NSX or an S2000, that's not too bad at all.

And JZ, it may be a lot of power for a frontwheel drive car, but that power is mainly used in drag/stoplight racing, not through the twisties, so I don't think it will be too difficult to handle. Just IMHO.

Overall, I give it a thumbs-up because Comptech decided to go through with making the SC and because $4200, while too much for me right now, is a damn good price if it gives 75-100hp.

JRock

So who will be the first to upgrade the pulley and up the boost on their SC?

scalbert

I am sure it will happen. But on our CR I would hope they have sufficient data monitoring and logging to be sure they are still running properly.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I completely agree with you..... I'd rather buy an S4 and chip it for less then $500. Then you would have an AWD monster that would fly and it would be around the same money (possibly cheaper) then a modded TL-S/CL-S, and all of the problems that the S4 has would be under warranty while the TL-S / CL-S would not be. I actually think you're being conservative on the install costs. Just reading this topic and all of the work involved, I think $800 might be a little low!!

BNut

SWEET!!!

SC will run b/w $4,200 and $4,500 from sources that have talked to MikeB and Shad (lead engineer?). Install time is estimated at 5 hours so you might be looking at $300 for labor.

My only concerns are...

1) How the FREAK do you change your front spark plugs?!?!
2) How the FREAK do you replace or even jump the battery if you ever need to?

Other than that, I just want to start seeing the dyno charts and 1/4 mile slips of some test mules with this baby installed.

2 years later and the dream is finally alive.

JRock

That's easy: Pop your trunk.

Vampyre

WHy do you think the car would be so hard to handle? There's plenty of FWD drive GTP's with close to or over 300 hp AT THE wheels, runnin mid to upper 12's now (and growing literally every week) and are perfectly fine daily drivers. They aren't difficult to to drive or handle. AS long as you don't mash the peddly every light, handling the car will NOT be a problem.

I do agree with you tranny comments though. I don't see the Acura tranny lasting long with this mod, also for the fact that people that get this mod will most likely have the headers, cai, etc. etc.

You do realize, getting this mod WILL require the headers as this much of increase in air into the engine will require a freer flowing exhaust. I think even a full exhaust system would be ideal for getting all the power out of the S/C. Works the same way on the GTP. If you have the a&& end blocked to much the boost stacks too much on itself, raising the boost level (and subsequent heat, increasing knock retard) and putting more stain on the engine. You want as smooth a flow in AND out of the engine for most efficient and highest performance.

Also, how is the KR with the S/C. Did anyone ask Comptech that? With the S/C the intake charge temp is a lot higher than normal which would result in more detonation and therefore KR. Any plans on how to compensate for that?

scalbert

Outside of the PCM KR ability I doubt anything wuld be done. The boost will be modest to help keep deto at a minimum. Secondly, 93 grade will be the minimum fuel octane. I am sure thay have been monitoring the knock counts in the PCM and tuning appropriately.

One thing that should also be noted is that the J32 engine will with stand deto longer relative to boost and CR in comparison to the 3800 series. The greater VE and shape of the combustion chamber will keep hot spots to a minimum.

JRock

Our engine is high compression - it's an intercooler needed?

scalbert

Too run much higher boost it would be. But I am sure Comptech is being conservative and limiting boost at around 4 - 5 PSI. In which case an IC is not needed.

JRock

In that case it will only be making like 25-50hp increase.

4pumpedCL

Doesn't matter to me if it's a 10 hp or a 100 hp gain. I'll get it just for the sound and looks of a beefy supercharger.

amir was here

there will always be disbelievers.

Even during the time of Jesus, nobody believed him.

See you in Hell.

Shawn S

Easily solved.......Pop the hood and use the black boxy clicky flashy thing to take a photo.

Shawn S

tankmonkey

lol

amir was here

ignore the harshness of my last post

Just kidding with you..

BTW, i havent dyno'd my SC yet, but I beat a Echo yesterday, after 3rd gear...

TheModMole

For those who care....

1) This is a twin-screw supercharger not a roots as has been mentioned.

2) Kit will include a new variable fuel pressure regulator.

3) Kit maintins approx. 6.5lbs of boost

4) Price will be in the mid 4K range.

5) Uses Factory injectors.

6) Leaves the Dual-Stage Intake in place thus making it compatible with the Mystery Mod (gains or losses unknown but physically will work)

7) Adds a MAP pressure relay to hide boost to the ECU/PCM.


Why twin-screw you ask?

The twin screw compressor is 75% to 85% adiabatic and volumetric efficient while the roots is commonly 40% to 55%. Common centrifugal superchargers have a peak of 65% to 80% but do just that, peak. Over an entire rpm range, a screw compressor has an average efficiency far greater than the roots or centrifugal.

A twin-screw supercharger is actually a compressor, (Roots is actually a pump) which means it compresses air internally as well as compressing it in the manifold. Because the screw compressor compress’s the air inside the case, air enters into the pressurized environment with very little leakage or energy loss. A roots-type supercharger sweeps atmospheric air into the manifold and is compressed in the manifold only. With manifold pressure, air leaks back through the rotors causing air to be heated. Roots-type uses Teflon to try and seal the rotors to cure this, but touching tolerances cause more frictional heat and greater parasitic losses. This problem is multiplied when boost levels rise or sustained in-boost periods. Automotive and Marine roots-type superchargers have more tolerances between the rotors and case so they live longer, but this causes more leakage back through the rotors. A screw compressor has very tight tolerances between the rotors. The rotors never touch, eliminating big parasitic and frictional losses

Wheres the beef?

The major difference between the positive displacement S.C.'s and today’s centrifugal superchargers is the rate of boost. The twin-screw creates boost the instant the throttle is touched usually reaching full boost by 2000 to 2400 rpm. The centrifugal supercharger is a belt driven turbo that has a lag time while it "spools up." The centrifugal commonly does not come into boost until 2600 to 3000 rpm and they commonly do not reach full boost until max rpm. The instant boost gives you far better throttle response whenever you call upon it, far greater acceleration, and incredible drive-ability. A good example is when you’re attempting to pass up a hill at 3000 rpm and you need more power. If you give it some throttle with a twin-screw S.C., you’ll get 6 lbs. of boost, if you have a centrifugal, then you can’t get that 6 lbs. of boost unless your at full rpm.


Mole borrows back down......

AKYPA

How many HP more?

What is time 0-60? 1/4 mile.

Thanks

HellaWhat

Fuck the HP.... tell me how much torque this thing adds

scalbert

Actually with a pressure ratio of 1.35 you could expect a 25% - 30% increase in power. Look at percentages not absolutes.

TheModMole

The HP #'s are yet to be released as this is a working prototype and is still in the final stages of tweaking.... Expect to see ~60HP and +50lbs from it as its a twin screw and the power will be where we need it.. DOWN LOW! and all the way through the gears giving the "effect" of shortening our TALL ASS gears. Id expect to see 1/4's with all mods to date (except 3.5) in the mid 13's and 0-60 in 5.5

rise

sounds good, ill take it.

scalbert

I'm not going to debate this as I have yet to see the unit in person. But that casing in the pictures provided in the other post certainly looks like an Eaton unit, almost like the Gen IV blower I have seen.

The end inlet with the base centered outlet is typical of the Eaton roots style and not twin screw units. Add to that gear drive area with the sandwiched adapter plate...

Just taking a guess at it...

astro

once again, the mole comes through and has my mouth watering...
I would imagine with some ecu reprogramming or replacing, you could run larger injectors to get more fuel so you could turn up the boost a bit, especially if you fit the SC on the 3.5 conversion with it's lower compression ratio....

typeR

if i were to guess 50-75 right accross the board...thats what im talkin' 'bout...and no one seems to talk much about the aem...replaces level10 shift control...meaning firmness...meaning possitive quick lock ups...meaning chirping 3rd...and less heat because of clutch engagment times....

tankmonkey

just for shits-and-giggles, go to the comptech website and check out the nsx supercharger. the sema cl and nsx are not identical, but there are certainly enough similarities between them to allow for the possibility that the sema cl is a screw type.

but both apps have a similar configuration to eatons I've seen in the past (like jackson racing's miata s/c), so I'm still not sure either way.

bigdal16

does anyone have actual numbers that they have gained on their cars from a dyno and 1/4 mile times.

Dallas

HellaWhat

DUDE, this is a prototype!!!

astro

the SC is still a work in progress...therefore no official time sheets or dynoe runs have been posted or advertised...I'm sure that once development is complete we will see all the numbers we want, until then, we've got to be patient

scalbert

To back my claim look at the pics below. The first is the Eaton M90 Gen IV (roots style blower) and the second is the pics from the SEMA show of the blower:





And the link to Magnuson who is Eaton's aftermarket reseller:

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp90_4th_generation.htm

HellaWhat

Bobowah spoke to MikeB and Bobowah was at SEMA. I'll take it as being a Roots.....

xenon7

6.5 psi @ WOT. Thats not to bad. 2.5- 3 psi avg.
However!!!!
I still have scary thoughts about the J32 engine w/ high 10.5 : 1 compression ratio and the effects of both the dual stage
and the SC running hard againist these domed pistons.
Engine life = <
But hey if you have 5k to blow and a second car.

hummm

TheModMole

Uhhmnnnn....



and....



See any similarities to the ohhh lets say whipple?

tankmonkey

damn.

you're good.

very, very good.