A 2003 Cl Type S with these suspension upgrades

2 inch drop, upper strut bar, cusco lower arm bar, eibach sways 235/45/17 rubber, and any other suspension upgrades possible....


What car can it be compared to now in terms of handling....

 

A less wobbly CL Type-S...

Tires == more stick (biggest improvement on my car)
Sways == less sway.
Springs == less dive, squat, etc.

You will still retain the basic characteristics of the CLS, but with higher max-G, and fewer oscillations. You will trade ride harshness with shocks and springs. (Well, unless you drive on mirror like roads.)

Don't expect to drift in it...


BTW, I really like the car, but it will never do stuff that my Bimmer would do...

 

It is still a FWD..

 

so it will still handle like shit?

 

Just like EricL said..

less roll, firmer ride, but still can't attack corners like the RWDs do.

 

A pig with 2 inch drop, upper strut bar, cusco lower arm bar, eibach sways 235/45/17 rubber Sorry, I have one and love it, but it ain't no sports car.

 

My CLS 6MT with CT springs/sways, Konis and PS A/Ss handles very good for a luxury sport coupe... good enough to stay with or walk away from most in its class... Best handling car I've ever owned...

 

With sticky tires, the car really does well. You have nailed down the key element: luxury sport coupe.

Without the Toyos, the car was scary. With the Toyos + wheels and sways, it is a different car (sure got rid of the push and brutal understeer). It's a nice car to drive at 98% of capability. It will even beat a lot of AWD and RWD cars, up in the twisties that are owned by people that put crappy rubber on their very nice rides.

One of the early members did ALL the suspension, brake, and mods -- including R-rubber, brake ducts, 13” Brembos, light battery -- and realized the car would NEVER be a track car. The rear sway bar would have to be huge to get some rotation going.

IMO, the car will do some impressive steady-state cornering, but will not keep up with a BMW, WRX, or other car with great tires, shocks, springs, etc.

I'd get an G35C, M3, M5, or WRX STI, and/or EVO if I wanted to go nuts in the twisty dept.

 

You mentioned a few mods that I have left to do: Brembos, Mich. PS PS2s (a new sticky tire that just came out a couple of weeks ago) and 18" rims are on order.

BTW- I spoke with Chad at CompTech a few months ago. He said he was in their CL that was fully modded (like mine will be shortly) and it was passing a lot of NSXs at ease on a race track. So the CL with the right mods and driven correctly can be very competive with NSXs, M3s and so on...

 

The key here is "driven correctly". Both FWD and RWD can be very fast but they require different driving styles.

 

a CL can handle as good as NSX? yah maybe if u dump about 1000 lbs... a civic or integra can be made for handlings.. CL is just TOOO heavy

 

I think Chad's statemant is misleading. Comptech mods don't do anything about the weight of the car. Its still a front heavy pig. It will never corner like an NSX or stand a chance against one in a real track race. In the straights sure a supercharged CL or even a (FI) civic could pass a NSX or M3.

Comptech mods will make the CL a blast to drive and you'll catch a lot of cars by surprise and blow their doors off in a straight line, but against a nsx/m3 on a track....you got the wrong car.

Its like the Best motoring video of the M3 CSL, S2000, Elise, RX8, miata and SL55. SL55 is clearly the fastest in a straight line with the best hp/weight ratio, but it got smoked around the track and only beat the RX8 and miata.

 

You better get your facts straight. Curb weight: NSX 3.2 6MT: 3153 lbs.; CLS 3.2 6MT 3446 lbs. A well setup CLS 6MT (fully modded) could hang with and probably out handle a STOCK NSX if driven properly. But an equally setup NSX would blow the doors off of the same CLS 6MT.

 

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u fully modded CL can outhandle a stock NSX? u ever drove one? and GuRu.. a SCed CL can NOT beat an E46 M3.

for everyday use a modded CL can handle pretty well compare to other FWD cars... but not a NSX....

 

My modded CL-S rips through the twisties, i stay right on the butt of a well driven 350Z track model. It's no pig.

 

I think we need to distinguish performance from feel.

No matter what you do, a modded CLS will never feel like a RWD or AWD car going through turns.

That being said, I'm sure a modded CLS will PERFORM as well as other sports sedans on the track. It just may not be as much fun.

Make sense?

 

k...so i've got sways and springs and it handles like a champ. will the upper strut bar (and lower tie bar) really make a difference? i've heard different opinions, but none of them give definitive answers. i'm used to riding my bike so i'm very partial to the twisties so a nice susp setup is very important to me.

 

I'm not saying I would be out challenging M3's and STi's corner for corner, but I'd say my tokicos, CT springs, CT sways, and sticky 235\40\18s do pretty well for themselves and make the car a HELL of alot more fun to drive over the stockness.

 

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AGREE

 

I don't know a well driven 6mt S/C CLS with sticky tires going up against a stock SMG E46 M3 might have a shot at taking him.

 

guys i know FWD is not as good as rwd, personally the cl grips like a bitch with suspension mods, one of the best FWD's iv ever driven, also with proper driving techniques, this car puts a close fight against those bimmers, infinitis etc, but id still get a RWD=drifts

 

First time out at an auto-X with my car I had the same times as a guy (with a much more experienced driver) with a BMW 330. He also had the same tires (Kumho Ecsta MX). I can get my car to rotate well even with stock sways on sweepers. Slow corners are another story. The CL needs a bit more camber in the front to get a really good bite but it handles fairly well. The biggest factor in handling however is the driver. I've seen a top driver show up in a stock car and blow everybody away.

 

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SMG can shift faster than regular 6mt , u know that right?

what is the fastest SC 6mt CL? except for allmotor (his car is barely streetlegal now) i am guessing high 13s? average E46 M3 runs mid 13s (i know some ppl run mid 14s but they dont know how to drive)and there are A LOT OF stock ones run low 13s and some rare ones run high 12s(i doubt but who knows)

M3 will kill a SC CL from a deadstop and will pull away from a SC 6mt from rolling start.

M3 has more HP & torque than SC CLS6mt, more advantage due to RWD, about the same weight, more balanced, higher RPM , so i dont see how a SC cl can beat a M3.

 

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True, it depends on the driver, but 90+% of the ppl are just average.

 

The car will get it's back loose at speed due to the air getting under the car. It's just not too easy to play "Fangio" with this car. Even my '92 Maxima would rotate without too much trouble. It certainly couldn't be steered with the throttle, and that is a lot of fun.

As with all things, I've met plenty of drivers and cars up in the hills that were an embarrassment to their cars. Add in the yokels that love to cheap-out on tires and shocks, and some pretty nice cars start to look sloppy and are out of control with the CLS sitting right on their ass without a peep from the tires.

I don't care what Comptech tells people, Kevin really took his car out to the limit at a number of real road courses, and he purchased a 944-turbo for road work (that was a long time ago). The only way the car was going to even start to rotate, was going to a huge rear sway bar along with a few more tricks.

IMO, there is a point were you really start changing the car into something that it was never designed for, and other cars with less money will provide much more cornering ability. There is a "return on investment" aspect, and the car can walk an NSX with a S/C in a straight line (presuming the NSX is stock), but if you put in similar mods into the NSX, you are back to square one.

Low CG, lower polar moment of inertia, front-to-rear weight/balance, and other issues have a huge impact on how the car "feels" and transitions when you are driving on the edge (100% of capacity -- just like a jet fighter “at the edge of control”).

As I said earlier, it is a wonderful car to drive at 98%. There is no doubt that the tires, sways, springs, and other goodies transform the vehicle into a real sleeper. However, you do NOT want to meet up with a well-sorted EVO or WRX in a tight course with 30 MPH turns (30MPH posted). It's possible to keep up, but I know which car I would rather be in. Perhaps I had too many years doing hand brake turns and 4-wheel drifts in RWD during my twenties. However, I sure do like the wet weather handling!

YMMV

 

Straight line race, with the right S/C guru == good shot at stock E46 M3 kill.

Toss in some twisties, and unless the M3 is wearing Pep Boy's rubber vs. CLS with Hoosiers (or other fat R-rubber), and you can forget about beating it. (Well, a search for a retard or 3-year-old driver for the M3 would insure victory )

 

i would say a modded cl (avg driver) and a modded bmw (avg driver), the cl would do better. its easier to push fwd in the corner, where as rwd you must balance the gas pedal well or you either lose too much speed or throw the rear out.
i get to run many cars on the twisties nearby, and so far the only car to get better cornering pulls was a mini cooper s! i took an e36 m3, a g35c(this guy couldnt exit corners well), and several other cars not worth mentioning such as regular 330's (stock from what i can tell)
i blew away all those cars because they were mostly rwd mixed with people who cant handle them. you could hear them get on the gas to early or too late.
btw, i dont know what that mini had on his car, but that sucker could handle! it looked like it was dropped but overall looked stock exterior. i know it was a manual though.

 

Solution:

Scalbert + R-rubber.

 

You should see what someone can do who knows how to work RWD.

Ironically, in the OLD days, it was the original FWD Mini Cooper S that really kicked ass up on Mulholland. I got more than a few rides in some, and they were really low to the ground (low CG). Also, the short wheelbase is nice in really tight turns. Some of them handled like go-carts.

 

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LOL ok i guess i forgot one... so allmotor + scalbert haha

anywayz
my point is 90% of the drivers are just average and you are saying a well driven CLS... By who?? who would buy a CLS as a pure track car?

if u got a friend who has EVo, STI, or RX7, 240(SR20DET), or even a 350Z and ask him to give u ride around the corners and you will know what i am talking about.
even my G35C with springs, sways cant handle as good as one of those "BOY RICER CARS"

 

Just a suggestion:

1) I'm in total accord regarding the Evo, STI, and RX7 (I have a friend who was putting down 360 RWHP on his last RX7 until someone smashed it; it would kill Boxsters with his R-rubber + sick power output). When the WRX first came out, I commented that it was one of the few cars I had run into that impressed the heck out of me up in the hills.

2) It would be easier to know who you're responding to by just putting their name above your comment(s) *or* just putting the next comment in a separate post that quotes the person you are responding to.

 

The sways and springs clean up the handling a lot. Well worth it IMO.

 

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CAN I just be LAZY?

 

i know a few, but they are really good. unless you have a RWD car that likes to understeer more than over, than an avg driver will be slower when comparing the two cars i mentioned.
for some reason, it seems that awd or fwd do better in very low speed, sharp corners. the only way a rwd has a chance in those is lots of grip in the rear and a high entry speed.

 

Yes you will never be able to get power on oversteer with a CL but when I hit the first "fast" (30-35mph) corner at an auto-x the back end swung right around. I actually had to floor it to pull the back end in line. If you come into a corner fast in second gear (6-speed) and slightly let off the gas while turning in it will rotate. Not something I would do on the street but it's a blast if you get it right. It's never going to be the best handling car in the world but with Springs/Konis/Tires the car certainly doesn't embarrass itself. It's actually a very entertaining car to drive. You just have to be very delicate near the limit because once you get into the dreaded FWD understeer you almost have to come to a dead stop to get it to grab again. One other thing I did to my car that helped the front end bite a lot better was fill the radius rod bushings with urethane and add some washers to tighten them up. It's a good handling car for what it is.

I think beating an NSX on a track is a fantasy though. Even with all the Comptech mods and race rubber. Unless you put snow tires on the NSX and had sombody's grandmother drive it.

 

 

Nope, but i do now.

 

Incorrect if referring to straight line speed and completely incorrect about the power output.

I made 323 WHP compared to the E46 M3 making about 280 WHP. I also made significantly more torque at 281 Lb/Ft which is more than the E46 M3 makes at the crank. And this was just with the HBP over the base SC kit. They also weigh about the same.

The M3 would have to use is ability to make power longer (reving to 8k) and RWD to overcome the power deficit.

But as Eric mention, throw in a turn and the CL-S6 will need to tuck its tail as it does not stand chance. The CL-S does well for it's intended purpose, but it is not and will not be able to handle with the top vehicles.

 

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LOL i am talking about a Comptech SC cl 6speed which should have about 250-270 to the wheel... i am pretty sure u cant get 323 with just header + comptech SC.

 

Who the heck would just install the SC and run the factory exhaust manifold??

With the headers, which is typically assumed, and the base SC pulley the car should make about 300 WHP and has. Add more boost...

I made 323 WHP with the SC kit, headers and the high boost pulley. So it can be done and is not surprising surprising.