allmotor_2000

Decided to sell my NSX and go for something of similar performance but with a 2+2 configuration. Was quite dazzled by
the G35C... but pre-orders involved a markup of $2K over MSRP, which put a fully-loaded G35C at ~$38K. I test-drove the CL-S 6spd and it was a slam-dunk at $30K w/navi. I have only owned/built/raced Honda's so what was I thinking about a Nissan for?

Anyways, what are the general thoughts between the two?

Modification CL-S G35C
Stock 260 280
Headers 300 300
Intake/Exh 312 315
Supercharger 400 400 (Stillen)

The G35C weighs in a little more (about 100 lbs). It's also RWD, so I expect 0-60 and (from-a-stop) acceleration times to be on par or quicker. The rev-limiter on the CL-S is at 7200 RPM, G35C cuts off at 6500 RPM. CL-S still peaks from 5200-7200, while the G35C is relatively flat (more hp/torque in the 2500-4500 range). I think the CL-S will tear the G35C apart.

I have raced several M3's and M5's with my NSX (with only header, exhaust, intake and a few minor tweaks) and have been on-par in the 0-60 dept, but have pulled quite well from 80mph onwards and upwards of 156 (where the Bimmer's tend to hit a black hole).

I wouldn't recommend the 3.5 swap for the CL because the rod-ratio (for the increased stroke) doesn't work well for high-rpms and the angle it makes with the crank is pretty radical.

I think we have a winner!

amir was here

in your sig it says u own a CL-S already...bur above you mentioned when u test drove the CL-S...

i dont get it,
are the cars in your sig cars that u have test driven?

if not,
why would u say when u test drove the CL-S which would lead me to another question, if u have a CL-S why would u want the same type of car with a Infiinit Badge?

why not just sell the CL-S and get a G35?

scalbert

Maybe more torque but I need to see a dyno of one to see what the curve looks like. Based on the numbers the torque comes at a peak around 4600 - 4800 revs with the peak HP at about 5800. This indicates a possible narrow torque plateau.

The below shows a nice torque curve, it really doesn't get flatter than this... BTW, this was done with 800 miles on the 6-Speed CL-S and temps in the mid to upper 80's. IAT readings were hitting as high as 140F.

allmotor_2000

The cars listed in my signature are the cars I have owned previously and currently own... I purchased the CL-S 6spd, like my post indicates. I was thinking about the g35C prior to my purchase and certainly don't want to be smoked by a G35C either now or in the future!

joedokes28

Congrats!

hughesne

Is that a stock CL-S? 240hp?? With temps in the 80's?

scalbert

Nope, it is a '03 6-Speed with Aem Intake (smaller AV6 version which I am sure is down a few ponies over the normal one), AEM Pullies (practically worthless) and the only real power adder the Comptech Headers.

But yes, the OAT was readings between 86 - 87 and there was just over 800 miles on the car.

All things considered, with more reasonable temps, the engine broken in and a new Intake I am making, 250 - 255 should be realized when I go back this winter.

Bill Faure

We're obviously talking at the wheels here, but I was wondering how the torque loss compared to the auto box torque loss?

Zapata

wow, i can't believe you sold an NSX. :shakehd:

scalbert

About a 5% to 7% difference. But this is hard to see on the low end due to converter flash and stall issues. But once the engine catches up there may be about a 7% difference.

jimcol711

why would a smaller aem intake give more power than the one actually DESIGNED for the CL-S??? is that supposed to make sense?

scalbert

You mis-read that, I stated:

smaller AV6 version which I am sure is down a few ponies over the normal one

As the smaller, 2.75 inch diameter tubing in my intake probably produces LESS power than the 3.0 inch diameter tubing of the standard CL-S intake. Do this clarify my statements??

jimcol711

ahah, im sorry, i did misread it, i thought you said something like "smaller aV6 version which i am sure puts down a few ponies over the normal one" hehehe, i knew something didnt sound right

typeR

im not sure i understand what you mean here?...you dont recomend the 3.5 swap?
what 3.5 swap..if you're refering to the 3.5 short block thread, than how would you have any idea what the rod angle would be...if you're refering to a straight MDX swap well sure, maybe...but this is far from that, acctually uses shorter rods and a long throw crank to achieve the additional stroke....mine is going in this week ill keep you posted...

allmotor_2000

Okay. If you are using a custom-crank (either extended journals)
and custom rods... you must be paying at least $6-$7K in parts because this would be one-off. I am referring to using the MDX shortblock internals. We used to do this with our B18A (1.8 Liter
1994-2001 Integra LS). You can mix the crank, rods and high-comp pistons to achieve a 2050cc motor to which you can also mate the DOHC VTEC head. The rod-ratio isn't great, so even with a strong bottom-end, the 9000+ rpms are quite dangerous. It still put about 205 at the wheels and has good torque figures, but you just can't take it as high as the B18C or B16A motors which can easily take 10K rpms. This is a very cheap way to make an old Honda Civic run 12.5s 1/4-miles for < $5K.

typeR

i wouldnt call this a one off i belive you are seeing similar parts swap here and im certain it is NOT a MDX crank...here's a dyno what do you think...
understand the comparo is bone stock cl-S to 3.5 +H/I

http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/...155l_pic1.html

JLai

I still think stock for stock the CL-S is gonna get creamed by the G35C or 350Z. Not to mention the supercharger options will put it over the top cause the CL-S transmission can't handle the power.

G35C or CL-S? I choose the G35C.

typeR

you say that like you're comparing auto cl-S to 6mt G35 ...sure there's a power issue there that could be over come with alot of money but the cl-S does come in 6 MT flavor and...well though the cl has a weight problem and im sure someone will boost the shit out of the Z ...i think there's alot of potential with the cl...for example doug has a guy he's done a 3.5 for that is adding the blower...that thing could be a real beast

JLai

The CLs have always had transmission problems, as well as a lack in parts availablility.

Stock for stock, its still 260HP Vs 287HP. Parts are gonna be widely available since the g35 houses the same engine as the 350Z. Plus the fact that the transmission will be able to handle the power of a supercharger since its already been done successfully to that engine. I think the dealership is offering the supercharger as an option straight from the factory (could be wrong ).

To play devils advocate, I hear the interior is not so hot and the car in general costs more. But all together I think its a hotter car.

allmotor_2000

The dyno results look pretty good... the torque difference is pretty huge. I suppose this is an auto-tranny? With all the mods,
why don't you swap in a 6spd. You might pull in another 15 at the wheels right away. I'll be taking my car to dyno after I the header arrives. I'll put in some work on the ECU. I expect around
245 at the wheels.

BTW. What are you doing with your stock internals or did you blow you original motor. I am contemplating between an NSX motor and a CL-S motor for my civic... but the NSX motor is just more expensive to find parts for... the CL-S motor might be a good option especially now that the 6spd is available. What do you have from the original internals??

typeR

my short block wont be dropped until thursday than we'll know the true extent of the damage....i understand the part is mine so let me know if you're looking for something dependind on the condition we can work something out....it does have a complete new bearing set in the bottom end..