BEETROOT

took my car (01 cl-s) to the dealer this morning. this is what I found out.

passenger window won't go down. dealer said something in either my stereo or my alarm screwed it up and they won't touch it.

vibration at highway speeds. said my toe is all screwed up and I need a camber kit. I just got it dropped a month ago and aligned right away. they told me it was within spec...but the dealer said my front tires are at 2mm and rears are 7mm...and the inside of the fronts are completely bald. fuck. its a comptech drop w/ tokico hp. I didn't think it would be this friggen low.

vibration/shake from braking. front rotors are warped. dealer said $280 + tax to replace rotors and pads... wtf.


I'm thinking about going back to stock ride height. I'm so pissed. I just wanted a small drop...my car looks like a fucking lowrider and now I have to buy and install camber kit, and new tires? F that.

I should go trade this pos in for an 04 tl.

ferizzo

Tell them that they should replace the rotors! How many miles on the car? Have you ever had the rotors warp before? I've had my rotors warp twice already (only 33k miles) and both times they have been resurfaced. They even gave me new pads the last time. Show them the TSB on the rotors.

I don't know about the electrical components of the car so someone else will have to chime in. Is it the motor though? Tell them if its the stereo/alarm then why aren't both windows screwed up! How long have you had the stereo/alarm? Why didn't this happen sooner? If the problem was electrical then wouldn't the problem have occurred sooner?

who did the install on the springs? Are the tokico shocks adjustable? if so what setting are they on (highest, lowest)? I think in this case you might be on your own. Don't blame the 01 CLS as this could have happened on any car if the stuff you mention wasn't installed properly. Unfortunately this is the price you pay sometimes when modding a car.

Amoeba

Damn your TOE is all messed up? I got H&R sports-lower drop, and when I got it aligned they put the toe and caster back to specs along with the front camber, the rear camber was between .14-.44 degrees off, and i have been monitoring it, no inner tread problems on those back tires. Although before and still when Im lowered, the cars steering wheel does vibrate midly on the highway

Rod

Some dealers will make up any BS excuse just to not have to perform any work under warranty. Try another dealer or trying callng the regional manager or Acura Care or whatever it's called. If you're under warranty they should take care of all your problems, well maybe except the alignment, unless you got it done there b/c then it should be warrantied.

BEETROOT

they said the brakes aren't covered by the tsb. I called another dealer...they said it depends on the wear of the brake pads and they would take a look. I'm going to bring it in there instead.

I'm going to play around with fuses and electrical tonight and see if I can fix the window. they said its not the motor or the regulator so its probably a fuse or something simple.

tokico's are not adjustable. I couldn't believe how low it went when I got them...its not what I wanted at all. i just wanted comptech drop...a little lower without being noticeable...an inch or whatever. its blatantly obvious now that my car is lowered. it went down so far that my front tire is about level with the wheel well.

Amoeba

Let me see those pics again of your drop please

Bluto

Where did you get the comptech springs from? new? used?

I've never heard someone complain Comptech was too low.

ferizzo

They are right that the brake pads are not part of the TSB but tell them that if the rotors are warped and the brakes are worn prematurely because of this then they should be responsible. to me its as simple as 1+1=2. Like Rod said, they will say anything to get out of shit!

BEETROOT

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/721319/ccar4.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/721319/car.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/721319/car3.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/721319/car2.jpg

BEETROOT

brake pads are at 5mm...they need to be 7mm+ to qualify for the tsb. they aren't prematurely worn...warping started happening two weeks ago.

I'm screwed with the brakes.

I'm just pissed that I need a camber kit with comptech and tokico drop.

Red-CL

That sucks.

I don't understand why your having this many problems with a Comptech drop. I remember you showed us that your drop seemed low but mine is the same way. I haven't had any issues with that.

Red-CL

That's about the price of a front set of Rotora rotors and stock pads.


Get the hint.

Amoeba

I dont know that doesnt look like a comptech drop to me, my h&r sports give barely MORE wheel gap then the comptech drop you have

Rod

Do the tokico's have multiple perch settings?

evilone

just get a camber kit and hace your rotors milled and get an alarm specliist to take a look at the prob with the window. at my acura dealr once i lowered the car they wont touch it unless its a big rpoblem like trans or something like that. the even refuse to give me an alinement atfer i droped it.

BEETROOT

yeah I know but I don't have a place to do it, tools, or time. plus I really don't give a shit about brakes. stock brakes work fine for me. whatever.

going to order camber kit from c-c-c.net right now...

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Your CT drop does look a bit low. Could just be the tires. Are they stock size tires? I have the same setup & my 235-45-17 on stock rims looked about the same.

Toe & camber have nothing to do with each other. They are different settings. So the dealer telling you the toe is out & you need a camber kit to correct it does not make any sense. I am at the limit for camber with my setup & don't need a kit. My toe was off also & it was set back to specs.
I'd take it to a a tire shop or another dealer to get it checked correctly.

The brakes are a hit & miss dealer issue. I have the same problem. Dealers won't touch them cause I'm lowered & have different rims. Just deal with it. If the pads are fine, have Midus or some shop just cut the rotors for like $65.

The window...How sure are they it's not the window motor. Did they test it to see? What have you done to the car? Alarm? remote power windows?

Edit- I have the same setup as you CT drop & the Tockio shocks

BEETROOT

its a comptech drop, I guess the tokicos just made it go a lot lower. most people with ct drop have stock struts.

I don't think there are multiple perch settings.

and yeah evilone...I'll take it back to the alarm place today and make them fix it.

BEETROOT

yes, stock tire sizes.

a camber kit won't fix the toe? I thought it did...shit. Well I just got it aligned a month ago...I'm taking the dealers alignment specs and the specs from the other shop back to the shop to see what they say.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Lower springs + aftermarket struts = lower stance compared to lowering springs w/ stock struts.


I don't know why the dealership says toe is out of spec but you need a camber kit.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Camber --

Imagine looking at your tires from the front or the rear of the car. Camber is the degree at which the top of the tire sits relative to the ground. If it's sitting toward the inside of the car, it's negative camber. If toward the outside, it's positive camber.

Negative camber helps with cornering because while turning, the sidewalls have a tendency to flex, and you only get traction on the outer edge of the tread if you have zero camber. However, with a slight negative camber, you will get a bigger contact patch on the tread during a turn.



Toe --

Imagine looking at your car from the top. It's the degree at which the front of the tire (like, toward the front of the car) sits. Negative camber helps with cornering a bit, as well, and it'll give that solid feel in a straightline, especially when cruising on the highway. But 99.9% of the times, you don't need any toe. It's the fastest way to eat up the tires next to burning out.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Stock tires will make it look like more of a drop. If you got some 45 or 40 profile tires under there it won't look like that much of a drop. Remeber the stock tires are 50 series.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Well, you can't just throw on 40/45 series tires on it, though, if you want to keep an accurate reading on the speedometer.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Right I mean 235-45-17 or 235-40-18, 225-45-17

BEETROOT

so if the inside of my front tires is now bald...that is a problem from camber correct?

which would require a camber kit....?

NiteQwill

For your window, sounds like your window regulator is messed. The motor may have taken a dump. Your dealer making an excuse saying your stereo or alarm caused it is I would enforce the law on their ass.

Camber = Degree your tire tilts away/to from car
Toe = Degree your tire faces towards center of car
Caster = Degree your tire is facing forward or rear

95% or tire problems involve camber

Rod

I think both incorrect camber and toe could lead to this. I remember Jens stating that what was usually off the most when dropping the CL was the toe which is why he recommended getting an alignment as soon as possible, as opposed to waiting for the spring to settle. And you say that the dealer said what is off is your toe so this should be able to be fixed without a camber kit. That sounds like some real asshole you were speaking too that said you needed a camber kit. You may, but his reasoning makes no sense.

nalleyhoncl

yes negative camber and excessive pos. toe will definitely wear your tires prematurely. you will no doubt need a camber kit (you shouldn't have any caster problems), it consists of adjustable front upper balljoints and adjustable rear lower control arms.

BEETROOT

the guy told me that they took the door apart and tested the motor. he said the motor was fine. he said AFTER they checked the motor, they went to check the fuses, saw my stereo wiring, and stopped looking.

I just realized that this is the most blatant I have ever bought. Why would they take apart the whole door and test the motor, BEFORE they popped open the fusebox and checked the fuse? complete and total BULLSHIT.

EricL

Fish story from a bunch of fish heads...

EricL

The 88-93 Maximas and mid 90 Altimas had the problem of first-year spring sag. I'm mentioning this as I had a ’92 Maxima, my wife still has a 95 Altima,, and there were about four others that were owned by friends and neighbors.

All of the above mentioned Nissans -- that didn't get alignments during the first year -- had serious front-end tire wear (toe related). The inside of the front tires were severely worn. My wife was spared by having an alignment when the car hit 6-months. The neighbor next door had the identical car with a stick and blew off the alignment. She had to purchase new tires way before she should have; there were in bad shape for so few miles.

So, spring sag can cause toe problems (spring sag == lowering). I've seen it. I remember Jens mentioning the toe issue and it should and can be corrected without a camber kit. (obvious comment).

If the camber can be moved close to the factory spec, you might be able to get away without a camber kit if you do a fair amount of driving in the hills; it really depends on the tires and your mix of twisty to straight-line driving. IOW, if you are going to really be doing some heavy work up in the hills, you might be able to get the negative camber to help handling and keep the wear in check. (Do consider all possibilities.)

The toe can be corrected to factory spec, and can cause terrible handling, wear, and tracking problems.

YMMV

brado

hey beetroot, if you brought your CL into Bell Acura today, i saw it. i cant view the pics because it says the user exceded their view limit or something. there was a white cl with custom mesh grill and custom system there today. when i was looking at it from the side, i thought you totally had coilovers because it was sooooo low. now i know its a comptech drop, which i see all the time at work, and yours is def waaay lower than everyone elses comptech drop. anyways, car looks great and good luck with your car probs.

Bluto

Sounds like the wrong springs. Or the installer did something wrong. Beetroot, you have part # 110-135 ?

BEETROOT

yeah that was my car.

I bought my springs from someone on here....can't remember who. I wonder if they screwed me and sold me some other kind of springs

I never even opened the box I just dropped my car off at the shop and had them put them on.

shit.

BEETROOT

hey brado -

right in front of where my car was parked at the end of the day, there was a white 04 TL with navi. the sticker on it was $29,xxx. the price on that car at www.acura.com is more like $34,500.

any idea why it was so cheap? are all the TL's going so low?

RUPNOK

I'm not a mechanic but it was explained to me like this (someone who knows please correct me if I'm posting crap)...

Rotors warp b/c they overheat and lose their temper. You can cut the rotors to smooth them out but the temper's gone and they'll warp again; also when you cut them you remove metal and since they have less mass they heat up quicker (less resistant to overheating).

So the only real fix is to replace the rotors.

This happened to me; dealer cut the rotors under warranty, which bought them some time until they warped again; by then the car was off warranty and I had to cough up for new rotors.

So I'd demand new rotors if you're under warranty. Don't let them try to give you a half assed fix for a problem that so many of us have w/our brakes.

BEETROOT

the warped rotors are only covered under warranty if the original brake pads have a certain degree of wear. mine were beyond the cutoff, so the rotors were not covered by warranty. I called a couple dealers about this and they both told me the same thing.

I had the rotors cut, and there is a 12 month warranty on the work so if they warp again I'm covered.

evilstorm

im having the same vibrations from braking...probably the same problem..how Should i just get them replaced at the dealer or get rotora slotted or regular or what? im confused now

EricL

Can you also have them check the run out of the hub? (Just in case).

Whatever you get, make sure to get the "bedding in" info for the pads -- it really helps.

Some slotted, or x-drilled and slotted would be fine -- your choice. If you're going to have to get the work done, you could find some relief with some good rotors and some good pads...

The threads have lots of info in them…

EricL

I have some disagreements with some of their comments, but you might want to take a look a this:

http://www.ceramicbrakes.com/whitepa...otors_myth.htm


Iron can have uneven deposits of carbon, and it might be around 1- to 2-percent.

Another excerpt:


BTW, just having someone over torque the wheels and do it in a "messy" fashion -- no start pattern used to gently raise the torque to insure uniform torque distribution over the whole rotor/wheel/hub assembly, is asking for future brake trouble.


And, I've had only one set of rotors that seemed "cursed" -- they were made from some poor iron (this is what I gathered) that I tossed them when they started to warp after bedding them in. They were even ground, not lathed, but that was the exception.

And, a SAE paper titled: "Introduction to Gray Cast Iron Brake Rotor Metallurgy"

http://www.sae.org/events/bce/tutorial-ihm.pdf

Hard to make up rules about "iron" when you think about it...