Chaptorial

In the March issue of Car & Driver they did a comparison of 7 Sport sedans in the $35,000 price range.

Our younger brother the 04 TL was included and went up aganist the Audi A4 3.0, BMW 325i, Infiniti G35, Jaguar X-Type 3.0, Lexus IS300 & Saab 9-3 Arc.

Here's how they ranked with Highs, Lows and The Verdict:


#7 Jaguar X Type 3.0 (5-spd man) ($36,495)

Highs: Attractive styling, convincing interior, safe handling & all wheel drive traction.

Lows: Smallish cabin, inert controls & leisurely responses.

The Verdict: An affordable Jag for wannabes.


#6 Saab 9-3 Arc (6-spd man) ($34,560)

Highs: Solid structure, spacious interior & turbo power.

Lows: Slippery seats, imprecise on the limit handling.

The Verdict: Watch out for that GM DNA.


#5 Audi A4 30 Quattro (6-spd man) ($38,130)

Highs: Good looks, stable handling & smooth ride.

Lows: Needs more power & a touch more involvement.

The Verdict: Leaning toward luxury.


#4 Lexus IS300 (5-spd man) ($31,994)

Highs: Sweet engine, easy handling & impeccable assembly.

Lows: Soft suspension & modest engine power.

The Verdict: A good choice at the price.


#3 Acura TL (6-spd man) ($35,395)

Highs: Awesome engine, roomy interior & great seats.

Lows: Fights back at the wheel & pogoing chassis at high speeds.

The Verdict: Should be a rear-drive car. (sounds familar)


#2 BMW 325i (5-spd man) ($35,540)

Highs: Balance, poise, refinement & communication.

Lows: Modest engine power.

The Verdict: More power would make this car a winner.


#1 Infiniti G35 (6-spd man) ($36,145)

Highs: A powerful and flexible engine, taut handling & a great price.

Lows: Some ride jitters & a few cheap touches.

The Verdict: An unbeatable combination of performance, prestige, space & value.

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The TL acutally had the quickest 0-60 and 1/4 time with 5.8 seconds and 14.5 @ 99 respectively.

blader

Interesting .. with everyone saying the TL should be RWD its a wonder that Honda won't make it so. I think its the only FWD in the test .. or is the saab FWD too?

Chaptorial

Yeah the TL and the Saab were both FWD with the Audi and Jag being AWD and the BMW, Infiniti and Lexus are RWD.

bigman

if the tl had vtm-4 and cost like 2 grand more,it would kill all the other cars. Imagine a hole shot launch with an awd tl

Zapata

seems they emphasized the SPORT over the sedan..... :thumbsdn: Pathetic.....i could see the g35 getting over on the TL but the fuggin 325???????

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

325I
That's why there a 330I

Honda will always come up short in these "tests" cause of the FWD.

hemants

I WOULD pick a 325 or G35 over the TL if sport were my only priority. But add luxury to the mix and the TL wins.

DISRUPTV

very nice how a 184hp bmw costs more than the 04 tl and as much as a g35

isnt the 325 suppose 2 be tsx competition?

Maximized

C&D is an "enthusiasts" magazine, which is why they choose sport over function. Consumer Reports or Edmunds might have thought otherwise. IMO, the TL needs to be RWD to reep the handling benefits. FWD sucks for handling, this is why my Maxima is going away

blader

Zapata

bah it's car and driver not the Society of Automotive Engineers Monthly newletter their decision making is suspect.

Not going to argue the RWD>FWD.

Their comparo seems only to focus one aspect....SPORT.

You've got to be f'n kidding me. Put a under powered 325 against a loaded TL and the 325 wins out? Please. 325 over the is300?@$%#@$% :shakehd:

They are blatantly showing their bias.

dallison

same here, can't understand why the underpowered bimmers are so much

Maximized

MT, C&D, and R&T are magazines that place a high importance on performance. The TL is a fast car acceleration wise, but it doesn't have the chassis to back it up. I haven't read the article, but bet it says something about the precision of the steering and handling of the BMW.

BigPimp

Impressive performance for the bimmer. If you guys don't believe it, look at the numbers. With the least power, the car performance superb. That's why 330 would win this test outright.

There is no friggin way TL is nicer or rides better than the 325, no matter how much of a value player it is. Trust me when I tell you this, I had both and FWD TL just does not cut in comparison to the always composed, never overwhelmed bimmer, even with the smaller engine.

bigman

I have driven both and rondog has a 325 and a cl. The 325 is a peiece of shit, it only handles better. Everything else is crap. The new TL rides way better.

cartan

It is interesting to look at the point totals:

Jaguar - 172
Saab - 174
Audi - 189
Lexus - 190
Acura - 207
BMW - 208
Infiniti - 211

The top three were very close and substantially better than the rest of the pack. I think with them that close, it comes down to personal taste.

Zapata

no offense but you had a previous gen TL AT that wasn't the typeS and it didn't have HLSD.

cusdaddy

I actually really like the new TL and I believe the it definitely should have beaten the 325, but the HLSD is one of the reasons why this new TL didn't do so well in this comparison. I remember reading in a few of the reviews that the LSD on the 6-speed TL is the major cause of the torque steer problems.

Here's a quote from C&D on this issue:

"If anything, the limited slip exacerbates the existing torque steer, pulling on the wheel as if each pound-foot were a G.I. Joe action figure in a tug of war"

"A jaunt in a TL with an automatic revealed far less torque steer, thanks to the torque converter that smoothes out the power relay and the lack of a tugging limited-slip. We're not usually ones to say stuff like this, but the automatic is arguably the more fitting transmission"

Crazy Bimmer

Go Audi :o

Zapata

agreed....i experience the same in the CLS....torque steer and it can be a major pain. HOWEVER, that characteristic is far overshadowed by the increase in handling in both dry/wet/snowy weather. They make it seem like some sort of flaw or deficiency in the design of the car when it is CLEARLY NOT.

That stupid analysis is what i mean by obvious bais from the reviewers. It's like if they were to complain about viper getting bad gas mileage because of the big engine but then at the same time praising the power?

chungkopi

i would take 325ci over TL, but not 325i.

Chaptorial

So the two doors matter that much?

Red Rider

Typical C and D. The usual FWD criticism. Tightening up the TL suspension is alot easier than adding H.P. to the 325. They should have done an A-Spec.

chungkopi

well, yes. i think 4door 3 series looks too boring. 3 series coupe looks so much better than 4 door IMO

oonowindoo

___________
i agree...

scalbert

Yes, it has less power but is also a smaller engine. However, that smaller engine makes excellent power and does so in a wonderfully linear and incredibly smooth fashion. Plus, a greater percentage of its power makes it to the road.

That is just the engine now. The rest of the chassis is leaps and bounds better providing practically the same comfort level as the others. But yet is exceeds most in the level of grip and direction change ability. But it does this with the most precise feel which gives an enhanced confidence level (greater driving enjoyment).

The above items are worth what is being charged. Now for the interior items, the new TL seems to be on par, but that is just the surface aspects. There are tons of little things in the BMW which further help to support its value. Although most of the items are seldom seen, they do go a long way when the entire engineering design is considered. Just as a couple of examples, the 3-Series has jumper points under the hood with reverse polarity protection, screw in tow hooks, a full size spare, etc.

gto2050

Gawd...what would you guys have said if BMW won? C&D biased toward BMW?

gto2050

You have to admit...the BMW "screw together technology" is pretty awesome. Look at the lack of gaps in the panels, etc.

dacura

iTrader: (1)

"C&D is an "enthusiasts" magazine, which is why they choose sport over function. Consumer Reports or Edmunds might have thought otherwise. IMO, the TL needs to be RWD to reep the handling benefits. FWD sucks for handling, this is why my Maxima is going away"

Agreed. If I remembered correctly, Consumer Reports recently ranked it the top sedan in that price range/class.

Ray Khan

that's a tough one, the 325 is just so gutless to me. I guess when you get used to some things you get spoiled.

Zapata

that's what i'm saying...car and drive is clearly biased. Only reason the 325 won is because it's not the 330.....which C&D admits.

Montez

We need to realize the average consumer could care less about more power, its the way the car feels and looks to them and some 3 series sedans can look good. I agree with GTO the way its built/gaps etc surpasses the Japenense models.

gto2050

Fun to drive quotient is best in a MINI!

TL_Type_S

C&D wouldn't stop drooling over the TL if it was RWD.... it would win comparo after comparo after comparo..

JRock

That is too.


For Honda/Acura it's mostly about marketing - and it's much easier to sell FWD to the majority of people who consider RWD a negative in snow-climate areas.

FWD's only negative aspect is to performance people which are a very small segment of buyers for this type of vehicle whereas RWD is negative to a large number of buyers in the majority of the States and Canada where there is wintry weather (snow/ice).

So really even if every performance enthusiast out there whines about it being FWD there is still minimum chance of it ever changing. What WOULD be more likely and also nice would be an AWD version available as a factory option much like the Navi models. I'd like to see them get rid of the high performance tires package and make that a dealer-installed accessory package and make available an AWD version of the car. That would answer everyone's issues with FWD and RWD at the same time and create a great performance car, especially if they bring the power up to 300hp+ where it should be for an AWD setup. Those two improvements plus a sportier suspension would put it on a level to compete with cars like the S60R which currently have little competition, and blow away cars like the G35 AWD Sedan which would not even come close to competing.

ferizzo

I agree here. I think the VTM-4 TL would kick some serious ass!

Personally I would take an IS300 and an A4 (although 1.8t) over the 325i. I know how most agree that the handling capabilities of the 325 are great but power means something to me and both the IS and 1.8T have good aftermarket support. I know thats not what the article was about, just adding my 2 pennies.

oonowindoo

_______________________________________
keep dreamin Jrock
if the TL is AWD with 300+HP with high perf suspension and this and that.. how much would it be? base price 40K? fully loaded 47k? outta door 50k? for around 50k who would buy an ACURA?
lets just say the TL has allt he features and powers u guys want, then we will start to complain about gas miliage due to the AWD, and etc....

Sarlacc

Drive one and you'll see.

Also start taking one apart. We did this for my friends 540 while doing some mods. The car is ingeniusly desgned and very well made. from the beautifully complex wiring to smartly engineered and placed items you dont even see or notice.

Just very masterful what they do with their cars.

Crazy Bimmer

You have no idea how hard it was to swap out the trim inside of my 330 was. Jeebuss those peices were in there tight! Even when i had the audi done it was hard as hell to get the doors off.