tmk70

So, I'm coming home at 1 am yesterday and pass a cop that had someone pulled over. I was in a 35 mph zone and I'm going probably 39 tops. Right as I pass the cop, he flashes his flashlight at my car. I had no idea what he was doing, it looked like he was waving me by as it was a narrow 2 way road. I get about a mile past and see the blue gumballs coming at me in the rearview. He says I was traveling at a "speed which is improper" and estimated me at 45 mph. I got a 75 dollar ticket. Here's my defense:

1) He wrote "45 in a 30 mph posted zone, estimated" on the ticket. I went back there this morning and it's posted 35 mph.

2) He ESTIMATED my speed which was TOTALLY wrong because what's the first thing you do when you pass a cop? You look at your speedometer--which I did (it was between 35 and probably 39)

Needless to say, I'm going to fight it. What do you guys think? Any other ideas? I had no radar detector and admitted to having 3 drinks with dinner 5 hours earlier.

madj80

Fight it. With a fine that low, the cop probably won't show up.

RaleighNC

Get your speedo checked. It might be off, even on a new car. Have you changed you tires to a none stock size??

I'ld fight it, if he didn't have a radar reading.

Dyno_CL-S

fight that ticket.

1. Estamiated speed, will not hold up in court.
2. The three drinks has nothing to do with the speeding ticket, now if you cause a accident then thats a different story.
3. Take pictures of that street during the day/night and of that sigh with the posted speed.

Also, pratice your defense before you go to Court, that way you won't look like an idiot who just got all thier sh*t together 10 minutes before Court....and remember the "Yes/No/Thank you, YOUR HONOR"....they like that stuff.

<-- 30 tickets but no points on license.

jdl75

1. A little advice from experience: Do not, under ANY circumstace, take the stand in your own defence. You will either perjure yourself or lie (you were speeding - if you admit this, boom, guilty - 39 in a 35, pay the man at the door!).

2. Take a picture of the scene, with a speed limit sign in view. This will be important, but not a cause for dismissal. My line of questioning would be something like this:

you: What is the posted limit on (road)?
officer: 30 mph.

(present evidence to the contrary)

you: Is it possible that your estimate was based on an ill-concieved understanding of the applicable speedlimit? That I appeared to be speding because the limit was higher than you thought? (fire these in rapid succession).

you do not have to prove innocense. Only reasonable doubt. It is up to the prosecutor to show guilt BEYOND A REASONALBE DOUBT!

charliemike

Reasonable doubt only counts in criminal cases =)

In traffic court, we (the driver) have the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not the government.

kensteele

I don't think it is beyond a reasonable doubt for anyone; neither the defense nor the prosecution. I could be wrong but it's probably a preponderence of the evidence or something like that, which means whichever side can produce the most and best evidence to support their case. You know, your word vs. the cop's word; whichever the judge believes. Since there isn't a jury and this is a non-criminal traffic case, beyond a reasonable doubt is just too difficult to prove and probably doesn't apply here.

Fight this ticket. I only wish I had one like this to go up against. As long as you don't get nervous and you stay presentable and you hit on a few key pieces (estimated speed, incorrect speed limit 30/35, and darkness), you should be fine.

Also be sure to specifically point out that when he spotlighted you, you quickly glanced at your speedo and the reading was exactly 39. Don't say you think, you feel, you believe; but you know, you're sure, and you're right (in a pleasant way, of course).

Finally I wish I had a support team like this forum, back when I was getting tickets constantly. Instead I had to rely on my [dumb] friends who couldn't tell the difference between a city cop and a state trooper and didn't even know where the courthouse was, much less how to fight radar/laser.

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]

Ogolden1

TIP ON WINNING TRAFFIC TICKETS:

I read this in a book about winning tickets, and have used it to get a ticket dismissed!

When the officer is going to write you a ticket, TELL HIM that you want it to be heard at the COUNTY SEAT - That is, the location of the County Courthouse! If it is a ways away from the City location where you received the ticket... say 15+ miles, and in the "downtown" area, you will increase your odds that the cop WON'T appear! Thus, the ticket will be dismissed by the judge!

Please note: They MUST change the venue if you request it! - It is your LEGAL RIGHT! But, they may give you a hard time about it!I had a cop that said he didn't have to, so I told him to call his Supervisor to verify, as I was NOT going to sign the ticket, unless he changed the venue to the "County Seat"! If you DON'T sign the ticket, they will arrest you and impound your car. I threated him with a formal complaint on his record, and a false arrest charge because he was violating my rights. He then called his Supervisor, and reluctantly changed the venue to the County Seat. He NEVER showed up in court (20 miles away) in bumper to bumper traffic in the morning! HA! HA! The case was DISMISSED!!!

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: Ogolden1 ]

kensteele

California is strange. The cops, the courts, the judge, and the residents.

Ogolden1

Ken, this isn't JUST for California! It works EVERYWHERE!!!

tmk70

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I'll be taking pictures of that sign asap. I'll let you know how it goes.

fbazakos

ok i can chime in on this.

#1. I just got a similar ticket. Driving at unreasonable speed.

#2. It was a mpls cop, and I have to go downtown. I tried to get a date in the county location by my house, and they said i have to go downtown since "it wasn't their ticket" I called downtown and they said that i have to meet with the city attorney since they try and settle out of court as much as possible.

lead_sled_dog

I believe in California, they CAN estimate your speed. A cop told me once that the Highway Patrol was trained for estimating speeds. Second suggestion, echoed earlier ... don't admit to doing 39 (been there ... done that) ... instant guilty verdict.

Good luck.

louisn

jdl's advice is right on. Based on what you stated, ask for a dismissal after the cop testifies. You can cross examine him without testifying. Try to ask detailed questions about what happened such as why was he stopped? was he distracted or concentrating on writing the other guy's ticket? put him on the defense immediately by bring up he had the wrong speed limit on the ticket. Ask him if he's wrong about that, couldn't he be wrong on other things such as his OPINION on your speed . It is a criminal case despite a traffic deal and you are presumed inocent and the state must prove you're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, Be very courteous to the officer and the judge. Do not argue with either. Must ask questions rspectfully or you will go down whether you were doing 4 mph or 400.