EricL

acura_service -- you made the comment, "as of 28nov01 the service replacement transaxle assemblies are still the same" in a statement related to there not being a new transmission.

So, please comment on the following excepted posting:

As previously mentioned on the TL forum by Buffa:

"I wrote a letter last week to Acura requesting that they explain what was wrong with our transmissions, and what they have done to prevent future problems. The dealers, while quick to diagnose and fix, have not been very helpful in explaining why, so I chose to write a letter to Acura. They called me at work today and said that the main problem with our transmissions is a "Tapered Roller Bearing" that was going bad. I have no idea what this is, but he said they have since redesigned this part. Now I'm assuming this applies to my 2001 CL-S, but probably also to other 5 speed automatics for TL/CL. Got mine replaced on Monday, and everything seems fine so far.

I'm not sure about this part here, but, my old transmission model/serial number was kind of like this BGFA-XXXXX-1PGF62, wheras the new one is BGFA-XXXXX-2PGF62. Maybe the "2" on the second transmission is a revision number? The X numbers were completely different so I guess that's the serial number part. Just a guess, but maybe it's true. I feel a lot better now that I have an answer, assuming it's correct, but the guy who called me seemed genuine. Hope this helps."

--???--

HellaWhat

You know what? The lead engineer out at Comptech was telling me, bobowah and moomaster the same thing. He felt #1 that the tranny fluid got too hot as well as it was breaking down. Two, he also said that the beraing that connected to the torque converter was a bit small. Funny as how this is developing.

Jens H.

To date I have heard no "official" news as to why some transmissions are failing .On the "unofficial" side of the business I have also heard that there is a problem with a bearing but I have also heard that there was a problem with the fluid and also that there was some contamination problem and a half a dozen other rumors .Here at the dealer level we do not repair these transmissions .The reason is quite simple .It is not a profitable job hence it is now normal to simply do this on an exchange basis .Since we do not dismantle the transmissions the actual failure remains a problem for the remanufacturing people to deal with .Untill we hear official news from the factory people we are as in the dark as you guys are as to what the problem is .
But some food for thought here.Like any product cars will always have a percentage of vehicles that have a problem of one sort or another.As the TL/CL line of cars sells in ever larger quantities a small percentage of them will have or will develop problems in this case transmissions.So some transmission failures are not really a surprise to me.Since we do not have any real statistics on the numbers involved here it is rather hard to say if we are seeing a real problem or simply experiencing a normal percentage of failures and we are all overreacting to it.It would be fantastic if cars did not break at all but this is sadly not the case.All cars have problems and Acura is no exception.Trust me when I say that Acura/Honda is taking serious notice of these failures as on my last trans swap they called me personally to get information about the car the fault codes and the trans problem specifically.
Hopefully if there is a real problem they will solve it soon and get things going in the right direction again but currently we like all of you must wait to see what factory people say.
From what I have seen the replacement gearboxes are apparently new and not remanufactured units lately so Acura/Honda is responding to the need for trannies by supplying new units at no doubt much greater cost than a remanufactured unit.Jens

EricL

Jens -- so do you guys open up the pressure access ports as described in Helms and check the fluid pressures on the clutch packs?

typeR

I've heard the GTP guys say there failure were the result of the differential and heat

Jens H.

It depends completely on what is wrong with the trans.In some cases where the trans does nothing but slip or refuse to shift it is not done simply because it is obvious that nothing we are going to do will save the trans however in other cases where there are other problems we will get involved in that way.It is a case by case thing if we are looking for say a stuck solenoid then pressure testing the trans is useful .But largely either these things work perfectly or they are dead .Jens

acura_service

the numbers in a transmission code have meanings, all i know is julian date is probably in there somewhere, jens would know more than me on this subject, i spoke to the acura and they told me that the transmissions were not "updated" - no real news other than that, they are just replaced instead of rebuilit, but i did hear that the fluid is cooked on them, now did the fluid have heavy enough contamination to cause the failure, or is the fluid contaminated so much from the failure ? - i don't know? i am just sticking to Wayneg's idea of a more frequent fluid change(i'm going to do mine every 7500 miles), i like my car, hate any down time so i'm willing to spend the extra cash (this has been discussed before - too each his own) if i find out any more i'll let the board know, maybe the mfg of the bearing has changed the design? - its a guess at this point
maybe any changes within constitute a different number on the unit? - only engineering can answer these questions

EricL

Thanks for your input, I have some thoughts, but...

Well, Road Rage (over on the TL forum) advocates buying the bottles of ATF and turning them upside down, to allow the additives to mix back in.

I am definitely going to be changing the fluid. Now the only issue is -- to flush the whole mess or just do the 2.7 quart "exchange"...

(I do believe in keeping the fluids clean in my cars!)

Comments?

acura_service

i think the exchange would be ok

ajram

I just did an ATF-Z1 "exchange" on my CLS at about 13,500 miles, and I was amazed at how dark the old fluid was. I think I may do another "exchange" in about 5,000 miles just to flush some more of that crap out of there. It's relatively cheap insurance if you can do the work yourself.

EricL

So, you're also saying that you only change the 2.7 liters and NOT the whole mess with the fluid looking really dark????


The reason I'm asking is... My previous vehicle, a ‘92 Maxima SE, received a "regular" ATF service and the color was not to bad before or after. However, at a subsequent service, I noticed the fluid was rather dark -- so, I asked about the "power flush" they offered. All the fluid in the transmission was replaced and was so clean that it was impossible to see the fluid (on the dipstick) in low-light conditions...

typeR

erik...i just check my fluid by looking at the dip stick...im sure more could be gained from an exchange but my fluid looks absoloutly perfect looks like it came out of the bottle and i drive my car aggressively SS most of the time and no 'mission problems...

Jens H.

I will go and look in the service manual on Monday when I get a chance and see if the meaning of the numbers is explained.I had an engineer from Honda/Acura call me today regarding a trans problem in one of our customer cars.I quizzed him for awhile to see if maybe he would spill a few beans about what is going on.As of right now they are very busy trying to single out the problem and they do have some pretty good ideas but are as of this time not ready with an answer to this pressing issue.
From what I have seen the transmissions we are currently getting as replacements are new units that have some changes in them.However untill Honda/Acura gives us the official word we are still guessing as to what the real source of the trouble is.Jens

mackdaddy

For what it's worth I did as Wanyne suggested also. I did a partial (3.1 Qts.) at 5k. The fluid drained was perfect. Nice red color, good smell, no abundance of contamination (other than what came off the magnetic drain plug.)

This may be just pissing in the breze to help alleviate the source problem, but it's as cheap as you can get (less than $10 including new crush washer for the drain plug.)

I'll continue to do this every 5k just for safety sake, unless told otherwise. Like I said, cheap insurance. Plus it only takes 10 minutes to do it. It's actually easier than changing the oil.

Jim

EricL

IMO -- I would be concerned most about the ferrous materials that collect on the drain plug. The solenoid generate a magnetic field and any ferrous materials would collect there...

mackdaddy

Those were my sentiments as well Eric. But I've been assured by an ASE certified master tech (my best friend) that it's nothing to worry about. They see it all the time in his dealership (Cadillac.)

Seems to me that any metal collected at the magnet is an issue of concern. But, like I said earlier no big deal.

I'm still sticking with the partials at 5k intervals.......