Am I being robbed, Vtec/Intake
04-19-2008, 05:42 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Am I being robbed, Vtec/Intake
Ok so I already tried to post, but being a newbie I put it in the FAQ section. Then I saw I was not supposed to do that! Sorry Moderators my bad!
Anyways I have a 01 CLS 58k no mods. I've been reading for the last 4 hours and found were I my vtec and manifold should be kicking in around 3800 rpm. Well I feel nothing @ that rpm.
Only sometimes at half throttle I feel a little kick right at 4200. And never feel anything at WOT at 4200. Then at any throttle position and always right at 5k I feel a boost with a nice audible change. So whats going on?
The car has ran the same since I got in in November, if it is low on power I really would not know. Nothing to compare it to except my last car. It was a 02 Modded Jetta 1.8T with a K04 turbo. It dynoed 225Whp and 298 WTQ, and ran 14.7 to 14.9's all day at PMI. And there is no doubt it was faster than this cl is. I certanly don't have a problem with traction as others talk about (in the CLS). (Wich sucks for me). From what I can tell from this forum it (The CLS) should be a mid 14 sec car. I really doubt mine is. I am at 5600 to 6000 Ft elevation though.
Anyways I'm found were the whole "check your actuator" thread was, and I will be doing that when I get off work @ 7am today.
Just wondering if someone modded the car and changed the settings. The car now show's no signs of it ever being moddified. And the original owner was a female Judge from FL, and i'm the second owner. I did pull the #1 plug just to see if I needed to change them and there were NGK R plugs that looked pretty new.
Well like I said I will check the actuator in a few hours.
Any thoughts?
Anyways I have a 01 CLS 58k no mods. I've been reading for the last 4 hours and found were I my vtec and manifold should be kicking in around 3800 rpm. Well I feel nothing @ that rpm.
Only sometimes at half throttle I feel a little kick right at 4200. And never feel anything at WOT at 4200. Then at any throttle position and always right at 5k I feel a boost with a nice audible change. So whats going on?
The car has ran the same since I got in in November, if it is low on power I really would not know. Nothing to compare it to except my last car. It was a 02 Modded Jetta 1.8T with a K04 turbo. It dynoed 225Whp and 298 WTQ, and ran 14.7 to 14.9's all day at PMI. And there is no doubt it was faster than this cl is. I certanly don't have a problem with traction as others talk about (in the CLS). (Wich sucks for me). From what I can tell from this forum it (The CLS) should be a mid 14 sec car. I really doubt mine is. I am at 5600 to 6000 Ft elevation though.
Anyways I'm found were the whole "check your actuator" thread was, and I will be doing that when I get off work @ 7am today.
Just wondering if someone modded the car and changed the settings. The car now show's no signs of it ever being moddified. And the original owner was a female Judge from FL, and i'm the second owner. I did pull the #1 plug just to see if I needed to change them and there were NGK R plugs that looked pretty new.
Well like I said I will check the actuator in a few hours.
Any thoughts?
04-19-2008, 06:14 AM
#2
The IMRC valve really is just there to maintain the flatness of the torque curve something your not really going to feel. Hence the torque specs of the car being 232tq @ 3500-5500rpm, although VTEC usually is accompanied by a small torque boost.
Just rev the car by rotating the throttle mechanism and watching for any movement in the IMRC valve. Its on the passenger side of the intake manifold.
usually your IMRC valve if its malfunctioning will cause a drop in torque and it will slowly start to rise and eventually catch up to where it left off if you had mods otherwise if your stock the peak torque will be early on and at around 6000rpm and beyond the torque will never quite recover.
So basically to sum it up, don't worry if you can't feel it.
Just rev the car by rotating the throttle mechanism and watching for any movement in the IMRC valve. Its on the passenger side of the intake manifold.
usually your IMRC valve if its malfunctioning will cause a drop in torque and it will slowly start to rise and eventually catch up to where it left off if you had mods otherwise if your stock the peak torque will be early on and at around 6000rpm and beyond the torque will never quite recover.
So basically to sum it up, don't worry if you can't feel it.
04-19-2008, 07:02 AM
#4
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by CH46ESeaKnight
Any ideas why I'm feeling a surge at 5k with a very large audible change?
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/781/releases/79
VARIABLE VALVE TIMING AND LIFT ELECTRONIC CONTROL (VTEC)
The Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC) valve train is a major contributing factor to the CL's remarkable combination of high power delivery and fuel economy. With the lift and opening duration of the larger intake valves altered automatically based on engine rpm, the engine develops strong low-speed torque without sacrificing high rpm power.
The VTEC-equipped engine delivers a substantial amount of horsepower, coupled with greatly increased torque at low-to-mid speed range. At low rpm, the VTEC intake valves follow a set of low-lift, short-duration cam lobes with timing that optimizes cylinder filling. Additionally, the timing of the intake valves is staggered and their lift is asymmetric, creating a swirl effect within the combustion chambers. This increases burn speed and improves combustion stability and allowable EGR rate. As the engine accelerates through 4400 rpm (4800 rpm on Type S), the intake rocker arms transition to actuation by high-lift, long-duration cam lobes designed to optimize high rpm output.
The exclusive camshafts found in the Type S engine further increase power output by providing longer intake valve duration, more vale overlap and additional lift for the exhaust valves.
The Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC) valve train is a major contributing factor to the CL's remarkable combination of high power delivery and fuel economy. With the lift and opening duration of the larger intake valves altered automatically based on engine rpm, the engine develops strong low-speed torque without sacrificing high rpm power.
The VTEC-equipped engine delivers a substantial amount of horsepower, coupled with greatly increased torque at low-to-mid speed range. At low rpm, the VTEC intake valves follow a set of low-lift, short-duration cam lobes with timing that optimizes cylinder filling. Additionally, the timing of the intake valves is staggered and their lift is asymmetric, creating a swirl effect within the combustion chambers. This increases burn speed and improves combustion stability and allowable EGR rate. As the engine accelerates through 4400 rpm (4800 rpm on Type S), the intake rocker arms transition to actuation by high-lift, long-duration cam lobes designed to optimize high rpm output.
The exclusive camshafts found in the Type S engine further increase power output by providing longer intake valve duration, more vale overlap and additional lift for the exhaust valves.
04-19-2008, 09:29 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Oh, ok! Well I guess my Tach could be off a little, or maybe the elevation has something to do with it!
After all the reading I did, I was under the impression that Vtec and the itake happened at the same time!
Well I did check the actuator and it was working. It clicked over really fast. I was wondering if it is actually grabbing or not. I clicked it over by hand a few times with the engine off and I could hear a click in the manifold area, so I guess it's working.
Thanks guys!
After all the reading I did, I was under the impression that Vtec and the itake happened at the same time!
Well I did check the actuator and it was working. It clicked over really fast. I was wondering if it is actually grabbing or not. I clicked it over by hand a few times with the engine off and I could hear a click in the manifold area, so I guess it's working.
Thanks guys!
04-19-2008, 12:10 PM
#6
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by CH46ESeaKnight
Oh, ok! Well I guess my Tach could be off a little, or maybe the elevation has something to do with it!
After all the reading I did, I was under the impression that Vtec and the itake happened at the same time!
Well I did check the actuator and it was working. It clicked over really fast. I was wondering if it is actually grabbing or not. I clicked it over by hand a few times with the engine off and I could hear a click in the manifold area, so I guess it's working.
Thanks guys!
After all the reading I did, I was under the impression that Vtec and the itake happened at the same time!
Well I did check the actuator and it was working. It clicked over really fast. I was wondering if it is actually grabbing or not. I clicked it over by hand a few times with the engine off and I could hear a click in the manifold area, so I guess it's working.
Thanks guys!
Its just opening up a valve, if the cable is pulling it open its working.
04-20-2008, 02:29 AM
#7
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I can hear the change at 3800 when the IMRC opens and again at 5k when the cams switch over. I don't have any engine covers on my motor, before I couldn't hear the IMRC open.
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04-20-2008, 02:31 AM
#8
Originally Posted by gc86
I can hear the change at 3800 when the IMRC opens and again at 5k when the cams switch over. I don't have any engine covers on my motor, before I couldn't hear the IMRC open.
By the time it starts to engage at 4800rpm you'll notice it a little later as you mentioned around 5000rpm.
04-20-2008, 04:23 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by CH46ESeaKnight
The car has ran the same since I got in in November, if it is low on power I really would not know. Nothing to compare it to except my last car. It was a 02 Modded Jetta 1.8T with a K04 turbo. It dynoed 225Whp and 298 WTQ, and ran 14.7 to 14.9's all day at PMI. And there is no doubt it was faster than this cl is. I certanly don't have a problem with traction as others talk about (in the CLS). (Wich sucks for me). From what I can tell from this forum it (The CLS) should be a mid 14 sec car. I really doubt mine is. I am at 5600 to 6000 Ft elevation though.
faster here is completely subjective. on a stock CL-S, you are probably getting 200wtq down, so comparing a turbo w/ 300wtq is a pretty unfair comparison, even though they may run the same in the 1/4.
04-20-2008, 07:40 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by rp_guy
faster here is completely subjective. on a stock CL-S, you are probably getting 200wtq down, so comparing a turbo w/ 300wtq is a pretty unfair comparison, even though they may run the same in the 1/4.
But the CLS is a much nicer car, and will certanly not nickle and dime me to death.
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