Reddly9007

I would put money on it that the main reason behind the recent decline in sales for Acura is mainly because customer can not justify spending a little extra just to get pretty much the same car from Honda. Althought other companies do the same stuff, like Nissan and Infiniti, Infiniti changes the cars up, other then the G35 and Z350. My main comparision here is that the difference between the Accord, EX-V6 (all options, best model) and the New TL just isn't that much different. Price wise and options and everything when it comes down to it, its just not that much of a difference compared to Infiniti the Maxima and the Q45. Acura just makes cars for a little more money and claims they are luxury when really they are just a little step up from the Honda. They need to revamp and design new cars just for Acura, its fine to use some of the same parts but not the same freakin cars for the most part. They need to establish a significant difference between themselves and Honda. Every other car manuf. does it. Other then the ES300 and the Camry every other Lexus is much better then any Toyota, just like the comparision I made between the Q45 and Maxima, like the LS430 and a Camry, and then there is the TL and a Accord, the TL and accord are just to similar. There just isn't that big of a difference for people to want Acura anymore. They need to make some serious changes to there line up and pricing scheme. Thats why the CL is gone, cause they built up the Accord and then virtually it was the same exact car. They need to start hiring and firing people and make some freakin changes!

1killercls

I agree...unless Acura comes up with something AWD or RWD we will part company on my next car purchase.

CLUofI

do you know what else you would find interesting?

The average person doesnt know when cars are related or rebadged.

The only car that honda rebadges is the MDX/Pilot and TSX/Euro accord.

The reason you can buy a fully loaded acura for low 30's is that it shares parts to keep the cost down. You are talking about the Q and the LS, those are both 45k+ cars.

fusionnv

Another problem is that if these cars are 45+ a good number of us may not be here. LOL

mrdeeno

do you know what you are talking about?

the tl is close to the accord because they are on the same platform.

the q45 has NOTHING to do with the maxima and the ls430 has NOTHING to do with the camry...that's why they are so different.

and there are a lot more differences between the accord/04tl than the camry/es if you think about it.

Zapata

good....you keep buying the hondas.....i'll keep purchasing my Acuras

Reddly9007

keep wasting your money on your acura and keep getting a honda product is what i'm saying. I'm saying that to make a luxury car and proclaim that it is indeed one, then make it different from the other cars you make. My point might have been unclear, i wasn't comparing the maxima and Q and thinking they are built on the same production line, i'm stating how different they are. People don't want to buy a luxury car knowing that it is barely different from another model of the parent company which is cheaper. They want a car that is redesigned and prestigous which they are willing to pay for.

1SICKLEX

EVERYONE missed the jest of the argument. That Acura has not differentiated their products enough from Hondas. Not to mention the Accord is a 20 time Ten Best winner cause it is that good.

About the Q45/LS comment, the point was while Acura shares platforms with dang near everything

EL-Civic
RSX-Civic
TSX-a Euro Accord
CL-Accord coupe last gen
TL-USA Accord
MDX-Odyessy
RL-40% parts from the Legend
NSX-no halo effect that trickled downward...
All cheap cars (sans NSX), the LS and Q45 are platform specific. They may be called Toyota/Nissan in Japan but they are specifically built to 60k car specifications.

I don't know why ACura management or owners complain. Looking at their products and comparing them to the competition, they are doing well with what they provide. Hell Oldsmobile got the can. Maybe even MARKETING has Acura management fooled?

123456SPEED

I'm a manual shift 6-cylinder near/lux coupe $32k buyer and before recently there was nothing to choose from. Not even any Acura from 1996 to 2002 in this segment.
The 03 CLS fit the bill in most of my requirements.
The main sales failure of the CL was styling and no distinct image. A coupe is bought for styling and sport over a sedan. Acura offered that with the Legend but it cost about $10k more. But I would have paid $2-3k more for a more distinct and excitingly styled Acura Coupe. But over $30-35k for a car and it better hold it's value well. I'd pay that for a BMW, but not so sure about Acura now.
I hope Acura will offer a new coupe in 2 years that meets my needs, but I have some doubts. The Cl really does offer a lot for the price, but people are attracted to styling. Acura needs more and I hope that is the true direction they will go.

RUF87

Sharing platforms is not the big issue . . . nothing wrong with that. The problem comes with the differentiation in styling and especially the fit & finish and next level of quality one comes to expect with the luxury brands.

Lexus is Toyota, face it. However, just look at the next level of fit and finish Lexus has over Toyota.

Nissian to Infinity is not as good, but still better than what Honda does for Acura.

I love my TLS and wouldn't own a Lexus at this point because price and nothing appeals to me now. But Acura's quality and value over Honda is much better that of Cadillac's over Buick.

Ruf

Reddly9007

I'm glad to see some people can still read and understand what I'm saying. With all these recent sales reports and cutting the CL line and slowing revenues, Acura needs to make a move. That is my point!

Zapata

every manufacturer shares platforms now....get used to it.

i'm not over paying for anything. I get a loaner with my acura. Do you get one with your honda? Does you honda have HLSD? Does your honda have the leather the acura has, does your honda have DVD audio? The answer is no........

Reddly9007

Zapata i never said you don't get more options when you pay more. I'm saying the difference is not that noticable and not worth it. I never said anything about sharing platforms, i don't care if they share to lower costs. And by the way what leather do you think your Acura has that honda doesn't, and what Navi systems do you think your using, you might want to look a little into a 2003 EX-V6 with Navi Accord

Zapata

More things=more price

it doesn't seem to be an issue for you....but for alot of people those things do make a difference. Does anybody NEED leather? No.....but that's a lux item.

Don't have navi.....but the Navi in the TL is better and more robust that is in the Accord. Just saying.....

typeR

no but the es300 has everything to do with a camry and an I35 with the maxima...all youre really complaining about is the absence of true lux higher end peices

Reddly9007

What it comes down too is Acura needs to make something new, take a chance, and shake the similarities between themselves and honda. Make a recognizable difference! So people won't be saying wow is that a remodeled Honda?

runnerX

My next car is not going to Acura.. I want something AWD or RWD, not another version of Accord.

Starter

You're not comparing the right cars.

The Nissan Maxima is the same car as the Infiniti I35. Nissan has no car that compares to the Q45. The 350Z and the G35 coupe are the same cars also. The G35 sedan is a RWD and doesn't compare to the Altima, although there are some similarities.

All related car lines do a lot of platform sharing (Ford/Mercury; all GM lines share; Honda/Acura; Toyota/Lexus; VW/Audi; Nissan/Infiniti). It's the economics of the deal.

1SICKLEX

Try telling GM that crap...You can use it on cheap cars but you either have to MASK THE HELL OUTTA IT on luxury cars (CLK based on the C-class for example)or people WILL notice.

Red-CL

Honda doesn't have one that compares to the RL or the NSX.

sonor kid

The problem is that the new Acura's look too much alike.
The TSX and the TL look much like the same car, which I think is a big mistake, not to mention how similar the Accord is to these two.
The other car companies like Nissan and Infiniti may share platforms but their cars do not look as much alike as the Acura's and Honda's do.
I think Acura did a better job with the previous CL and TL in seperating themselves from the look of Honda but now the have gone backwards in my opinion in this regard and it bothers me as a loyal Honda/Acura buyer.
If I had to buy a new Honda/Acura, I would buy a loaded Accord V6 coupe with navi and have the option for a 6 speed, why would I spend 10 grand more for the same car to say Acura on it.
It was different when my CLS came out, as Honda had nothing close to it!
I have two kids and my CLS is fine, which is why I'll keep it until Acura betters my CLS with a new high powered coupe. My wife drives a four door Volvo V70 GLT wagon, so I don't need another four door.
If Acura does nothing in replacing my CLS, then they will eventually lose a long tiome buyer.

123456SPEED

I agree with you. I considered just getting the new Accord coupe 6 speed and saving some bucks. The CL doesn't offer anything that distinct over the new Accord coupe IMO and the Accord has some newer amenities over the CL. But I don't think it would be $10k less. Wouldn't a loaded Accord 6 speed be close to $25-26?
I don't know.

dacura

iTrader: (1)

I think the main reason why Acura sales have come down is because the last generation TL went down in sales because it was at the end of the cycle and people anticipating the new one.
The TL afterall is their bread and butter car.

One observation that I have made (and it's probably pretty subjective) is that the Camry is intentionally made to look more down market (exterior and interior) as opposed to the ES330 than the Accord is made as opposed to the Accord. I always think the Accord has a better interior than the Camrys do. Who's got the better strategy, who knows. They're both doing quite well.

I think we got to understand the Honda is a smaller vehicle(ones we drive) manufacturer than Toyota as evident by the number of car models each sells. So to expect Honda to do what Toyota does is not all that reasonable. Honda is doing well. I take that Honda just can't justify developing a V8 or using the RWD platform more frequently. A business decision.

I think the whole notion of needing a V8 or rwd to be considered a luxury car is a little blown out of proportion. In my view, as long as the car has all the amenities, smoothness and quietness and comparable power, I'm not sure I really care what's under the hood. Not to defend the Acura RL, that car, as many have said it, needs to be updated with more power and more luxury items. It's just truly slow compared to not just its perceived competitors but also a lot of other cars much cheaper. But I have driven the current RL and is no Accord. It's much smoother and quieter and it does have an aura of luxury. So to make my point, Acura does (to me) make a luxury car but an underpowered and under-equipped one at that. Everything else besides the NSX and the RSX (which I think they should scrap out of the line) is near luxury.

J

dacura

iTrader: (1)

i meant to say " the Accord as opposed to the TL"

Aegean_Blue6

To me, Acura's image is a combination of "low cost luxury" with Honda reliability. My decision to get the CLS-6 rather than a G35C or 330ci was very much based on the $7-10k savings. With the new TL coming up in price somewhat, the reasons for staying with Acura are decreasing.

fusionnv

They probably surprise us with a CL. Maybe like a GL to TCL or some shit like that. Maybe it be like a 2 door TL or some shit like that. I guessing in a year or two, because it looks like the market for more power, more speed is picking up again.

Starter

The target market for the TL is the BMW/MB buyer. You need RWD to give the same handling and "feel" as those cars. If you're going straight luxury with little (relative) performance then it makes no difference.

123456SPEED

Uh, no I get NO loaner because I bought as Acura, and I get sh*tty attitudes. For the money I paid they should at least give me a reach around. Sick of Acura dealer., as always.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

RSX is nothing like a civic!

1SICKLEX

No it's not but it shares Civic parts/platform.

Starter

Not! It's a hot rodded Civic!

F23A4

Not any longer; the new Max is built off the 3G Altima's platform and the I35 is carried over from the previous Maxima (aka the Nissan Cefiro, of which the I35 is rebadged as Infiniti).

Acura's best hope is to fire Tom Elliot.

CLpower

We need to get a post together of the completely idiotic threads Reddly007 has started. This one is 2nd to the top right after the "you are wasting money because you mod" thread!

Starter

True, but it's a slow day and we're all bored.

fusionnv

Did he ever post, u have to be a retard to buy an acura. ?

Black CL-S 4-Life

I agree. He is taking Acura in the wrong direction.

riceburner503

No other company has V-tec like honda/acura does.

tdtsai

My biggest complaint of Acura is STYLING!!! After the French group revamped the Infinity and Nissan, the styling was much more applealing, and the sales went through the roof.

The main reason I bought the CL was its distinctive styling with good power at a reasonalble price. I would not buy the new TL because it's very generic Japanese design The Nissan sold a lot of the new Altima, G35 because of the design. I would like my next car to be an Acura but it does'nt look that way

SilverBulletCLS_RENAMED

I agree with Reddly9007. Acura needs to revamp their lineup with new designs, both exterior and interior, so the general public will stop saying "it's just an updated Honda." Yes, an Acura which performs better, is more convenient and so on, is ultimately a Honda with upgraded performance and comfort but this is also Lexus'/Toyota's motto too. What seems to be the single most pronounced issue with Acura is that they have not yet shifted enough skilled resources to distinguish the the two Automakers apart. Take for example the unnecessary necessities required in upgrading the Accord to tag it a TL. IMHO Acura has yet to make adequate improvements to justify the increase in price, regardless of the minute interior detail enhancements and minor bump in HP; when comparing the '03 TL to the new version, i agree, a lot has changed. But look past this and Acura's marketing and a lot of you will notice that not enough enhancements were made vis-a-vis an '04 Accord- '04 TL - '03 TL. For some John Doe who can afford to buy a luxury vehicle regardless of what it offers or cost or looks, fine, that's a lost cause. For the majority of us here, we buy because we like but we get what we can afford. If Honda wants us to buy Honda, fine, then they should keep their cars just the way they are... similar. But if Honda wants a share of my wealth they better regulate their prices and the quality of their products to stay competitive with Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, and so forth. Or else...

fuZzBaLL143

i think only a handfull of people know what his point was. personally i think it was that the general public don't see a drastic difference between both honda and acura. they look the same and drive the same. i personally do not consider the acura a luxury car so if i were in the market for one, acura would not be on my list. while lexus and toyota are like night and day. oh and this is totally off topic but all this talk about brand recognition is kind of a summary of our soceties need to be distinguished by our material possessions. japan doesn't have an acura nor an infiniti.