I have a headache now..... and I don't have any transmission problems.

 

originally posted by acura_service:

"i see it as keeping my ride and not being in a loaner waiting for a new transmission, plus i'm sure some of us on the board are drive there cars a little on the thrashing side, so this might help - my opinion of that service manager is he is either staying neutral, or not asking questions, or not asking the right people - i'll be changing my fluid every 7500 miles. "


Thank you, you read my mind to a T.

 

BTW, I have 23,785 miles and I have not changed the tranny fluid. It's due at 30k and Park Avenue Acura will do it when I take it in for that check. (love these new smilies).

 

The Jens has spoken.



So, okay, Dead trannys have screwed up tranny fluid.
The big question of course, is, 'how long did it take the fluid to go bad?' If the tranny suddenly goes 'kaboom', then the tranny fluid could very quickly get mixed with kaboomskis.

So imho, it's still open season on tranny fluid changes.
What I plan on doing is changing my tranny fluid at 15K, and
depending on:
a) the feel of the tranny after the fluid change
b) the condition of the fluid being flushed out

increase or decrease that interval.

 

Gee, maybe that's because the tranny just shitted itself.

The tranny fluid being all nasty is most likely the RESULT of the tranny self-destructing, not the CAUSE (although that is still a remote possibility, but it would require testing the tranny fluid right before a transmission starts to go south and then again after it has crapped out. Considering this is impossible (because who can judge when a seemingly-fine transmission is going to decide to devolve itself into scrap metal?) the most logical conclusion would be that the tranny fluid's texture/odor/consistency is the RESULT of the tranny going to pieces).

 

Info only....

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/tr/tr20142.htm

"ATFs
Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is another lubricant that may require periodic maintenance. Though many vehicles today have no scheduled change interval for ATF, many transmission experts say most transmission problems could be prevented by regular fluid and filter changes.

ATFs don't suffer the contamination and sludge buildup of motor oil because there's no blowby of crankcase gases into the transmission. The only contaminants come from the friction plates and normal gear wear. The filter will trap most of this debris before it can cause problems.

But most Asian transmissions only have a plastic or metal screen that does little to protect the transmission against internal contaminants, and nothing to keep the fluid clean. On such vehicles, changing the fluid is the only way to get rid of the contaminants.

ATF is also vulnerable to heat, and a hard-working transmission can generate a lot of heat. Towing obviously puts additional strain on the transmission and raises fluid temperatures, but so can mountain driving, off-roading and even everyday stop-and-go city driving.

As the operating temperature of the fluid goes up, its remaining service life goes down. Oxidation, viscosity breakdown and degradation of the friction-modifying additives reduce the fluid's ability to perform properly.

For most passenger cars and light trucks, transmission experts recommend changing the fluid and filter every two years or 24,000 to 30,000 miles - or once a year or every 15,000 miles if a vehicle is used for towing or other severe service use.

Fluid Checks
Fluid in good condition should be red like new fluid. Some discoloration with use is normal, but if the fluid is brown or smells like burnt toast, it is badly oxidized and is way overdue for a change. Varnish on the dipstick would be another indication of fluid neglect and the need for a change.


A quick way to test for worn transmission fluid is to do a "blotter" test. Place one or two drops of ATF from the transmission on a paper towel and wait 30 seconds. If the spot is widely dispersed and red or light brown in color, the fluid is in satisfactory condition. But if the spot does not spread out and is dark in color, the ATF is oxidized and should be changed.

The presence of visible dirt or debris in the fluid is bad news because it tells you there's junk circulating inside the transmission that doesn't belong there. The transmission should be flushed immediately, and the fluid and filter changed to prevent any further damage.

A low fluid level usually means the transmission is leaking fluid somewhere. The most likely place is the driveshaft seal in the tailshaft on rear-wheel drive applications, or the pan gasket or the input shaft seal. On front-wheel drive transaxles, check the seals for both halfshafts as well as the pan seal."

 

i can take a 4T80E hydromatic and disconect vcc, smoke 4th quickly, and the fluid will still remain fairly clean but will have small pepper looking spects from clutch debris, the units in question have found to have very dark (maybe) "cooked" fluid

 

Alas our transmission problems are not because someone is disconnecting vcc and quickly smoking fourth and then draining the fluid to look at it.

 

i know, too many opinions on this

 

Me too!

 

EricL
I really don't know where you get all this useful information but Im very glad your apart of this site and bring all this info for us.

 

You knew I'd eventually stick my head in here...

All I want to know is one thing regarding the "when do I change my tranny fluid?" question. Why do you service people recommend that the customer pick up the cost for an unecessary service (according to my owner's manual), to prolong and protect a potentially shitty component that your company makes? Shouldn't Acura foot the bill for fluid changes outside the realm of recommended intervals? I mean fuck, this is their fault, right?

Oh, and Acura Service, you can save the "if you can't afford it..." bullshit. I know you're a rider, so I'll pose a question to you. If you rode ABC bikes and ABC told you that you had to change the piston ring EVERY THIRTY MINUTES of use or your engine would seize, yet XYZ bikes and every other maker on the planet could go 10 HOURS before a ring swap, which bike would you buy?

 

droideka
very good point and....lol!

took me 30 mins to read this whole thread...
anyway thanks jens for the info please do fill us in once you get the info....

 

droideka, i don't know why i bring out such post in you, i don't care who the hell pays for your service, if you get it done or not, i responded with the info i know and a reccomendation based on input from technicians and what i have seen over the years, all i'm saying is the fluid seems to get very dirty in these cars, and people have responded to better shifts after a fluid change, hell you can complain to your dealer and maybe he will do it under warranty, and as far as pistons in bikes, i'm a wiseco sponsored rider, so pistons are of no concern, actually when you race anything, performance is first costs are second - so the second part of your post means nothing to me - hell the aprilia i'm buying i heard has a high maint cost, i didn't buy it so i can have a low maint bike, i'm buying it because i want the performance and don't care about any associated cost that comes with it

i'm doing my trans fluid services at 7500 miles, you do it whenever you want to

 

Thanks EricL. The artical does suggest that the 30,000 change is a good number? More importantly it gives us a way to CHECK the fluid and what to look for. This is something like in the old days when we got gas we would check the oil. Now we can check the Tranny fluid! This will be my approach to the situation, as (if nothing else) it should be me an early warning of pending danger.

 

OHHHH, APRILIA!!! I want to see pics when you get it.

Do you get what I'm saying? Perhaps my piston ring analogy is a poor one considering you're a racer and not a casual rider (I can appreciate competition costs as I'm looking into a 125cc shifter kart. Tires alone can run $145 per weekend!). The CL-S is NOT a Porsche or a Ferrari. If I was fortunate enough to own either of those marques, it would be for the sheer performance factor and like you said, cost would not be an issue. But that's not my point.

My point is simply that the CL-S is a relatively fast, $30K car that I SHOULD NOT have to baby like a high-performance machine to expect any longevity out of it. It's a commuter car for fuck's sake, not a weekend princess.

 

It sounds like the whole transmission issue has entered the realm of theology, specifically the doctrine of predestination! For some reason unknown to us some transmissions are predestined to fail, and nothing we do can prevent that predestined failure. Therefore, changing the fluid is useless for the ones predestined to fail since they will fail no matter what we do. And for those not predestined to fail, changing the fluid often will have no effect either. So, it seems the best thing to do is just follow the "good book" and change the fluid according to schedule.

 

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

 

true true, believe me, i think you should stick to the factory maint schedule on any car, i'm only doing extra services because i think it might help - i hated driving a solara when my car was in the body shop, i don't want to go through that again if the transmission were to let me down, - i think all of you responding have very valid points

shifter carts - way cool

i'll post pictures when i pick up the bike i was going to get a 2002 in the spring, but the paint scheme is ugly - so i put a deposit on a flat black and red leftover

please post pics of the shifter cart, they freakin rule!

 

J Rock :I was only relating my experiences with this transmission situation ,I was not trying to establish a cause with my post.
Droideka :something to remember ,I work for an Automobile dealer I do not work for Honda/Acura as such neither I nor anyone at this dealership designs,engineers or assembles Hondas or Acuras.We do sell and service their products but that is all,please keep that in mind when you say things like "your company".My company is Park Avenue Acura.At this time we feel that a more frequent fluid change of the trans is a benefit in many cases but the decision to do this rests with you and neither I nor anyone else can make that decision.If it were my car knowing that there is a transmission problem I would be inclined to have it done simply to keep me driving my car as opposed to my car sitting at the dealer untill a new transmission can be sourced for it.But that is me and my cars not you and yours.
We will continue to try and help anyone in any way we can including keeping all of you posted on what we learn from Honda/Acura about this situation and what their intended course of action is.Jens

 

This is exactly the point I wanted to make, only you did it much more eloquently than I ever could have. Props.

 

All I know is...

I WANT MY FREEEKIN' CAR BACK NOW NOW NOW!!!!

 

I bet you do...

I want a $2000 upgrade/option in the form of a manual sequential transmission (that those M3 guys will be getting) too...